where do I go from here

As we get more data we can do some adjusting and sliding scales.


Try to desensitized him to having his ears touched. When you pet give his ears a quick touch without a poke. Or rub his ears and give a treat so he associates having his ears touched with positive things.

 

My cats favorite is shoelaces. At first she would just swat. After a few days she would give it a pounce or two. After a couple of weeks she was finally chasing it again. Not for long...Cc has issues with arthritis.... It's actually really helpful to keep them moving. And it will help them receive stress. She likes laser pointers too.

 

Yeah, don't worry so much about the 349 pre-shot. Check my Freya's spreadsheet if you want. She gets pre-shots in that range but is still improving and not in an awful place. (Though her numbers are a bit bouncy right now after a pukey night and some greens.) Even with the pink pre-shots, she looks physically much better than she used to, and her fur is even getting nice and soft and shiny again, not all dry and gross. So don't feel too bad! It just takes time.

You may see quite a big difference with the transition to your Fancy Feast, or another low-carb wet. You can see at the top of my sheet before Freya started eating low-carb wet food, how much higher her BG was. Lots of reds, but not anymore. Diet can make a huge difference, and similar to your case, the food my vet wanted her to eat was definitely not helping!

 

Thanks for sharing! Well at least Theodore likes the fancy feast...he is a picky eater, so I was glad he liked the royal canon...but I'm definitely going to transition to only FF. He only ate the royal canon for a few days. Before that I had him eating Hills for about a week. I had a hard time getting him to eat enough. So at least with FF I won't have to worry about him not wanting to eat it!
Aw I'm so glad that your kitty is doing better!!

 

Don't worry, Shawna, you'll get there. The BG can be erratic at times so it's best to keep a dose for a while. I agree with the suggestions re desensitizing him about ear handling. Freeze dried meat treats are much enjoyed by Teasel. I buy the Orijen brand "original" and "wild boar". Some people boil/poach/roast a plain chicken breast then cut it into small cubes and freeze it in small batches to take out one batch at a time as needed.

 

I can set it up for you so you would just have to fill it in accordingly and link it to your Signature Djamila made a video showing how to link SS in Signature too

 

Oh you are so sweet!! Is that a lot of work? If it's easy for you I would appreciate that so much! xoxoxo
Hopefully I can help others in the future like you are all so kindly helping me. I appreciate you!

 

Yong is the resident research librarian and techie on the ProZinc forum.

 

Aw thanks that makes me feel better. I have been petting him today with smooches and he isn't grumpy like last night. He must have been feeling terrible and wanted me to know by hissing at me. He went thirteen years with not one hiss that I ever saw, and the first time he did it I was terrified and I had hurt feelings lol but now I just know it means he doesn't feel good/needs space and he's just a cutie pie to me...my poor baby. I'm so thankful to be here on this forum so I can give him the best chances of getting better!!
I think he's going to love the new treats he will be getting! He used to be obsessed with temptations. Probably super unhealthy, but I really just wasn't knowledgeable. So I know he will be happy about getting a treat here and then again!! xoxox

 

I'll send you a PM since you are on right now

 

Oh that's awesome!!! You are all such wonderful people! <3

 

Sick with first grade germs? You don't happen to be a teacher by any chance?

 

It does get easier Shawna. As for not being able to ask every time...why not??? We've all been through the phase where we're new at this and trying to figure it out and we've all asked about every single preshot. I used to do a thread every single day and even when I started to figure out dosing on my own, I still asked for guidance and advice here!

We generally advocate a start low, go slow option here...start at 1 unit and then slowly raise the dose by 0.25 as you go along. That steady, methodical approach to dosing is usually the best way to get ProZinc to work for you. Have you read our Beginners Guide and Protocol?

 

Next question you have, start a new thread . I know this one got long faster than usual from all the excitement the other night . Usually when you get through the 2nd page, go ahead and start a new thread

 

Yes, the low carb diet seemed to come as a surprise to my vet, too. At our first visit, she recommended that Buddy eat a hairball formula (non-prescription) type of food due to its' fiber content and prolonged ingestion. But my research led me away from that and on to a strict low carbohydrate diet.

As Djamila mentioned, and I agree completely, most vets have good intentions. They just probably treat feline diabetes based on what they were taught in veterinary school. I also tend to think that a lot of vets don't get good feedback from the majority of diabetic cat owners. At least, reading between the lines, that was the message relayed to me by Buddy's vet.

It seems to me that most of us that are on this message board go way beyond in the level of care that we provide for our cats than maybe the average cat owner does. In doing so, I feel that we are in a great position to help our vets better understand feline diabetes and how to more effectively treat it.

 

I am First grade teacher!

 

There are a LOT of teachers in here. I teach elementary art 1-6th.

 

Thank you!! I haven't read it, thanks for sharing! I'm so thankful

 

Oh, ok, thanks!

 

Aw, that's great!!!

 

Well that makes sense. I would have never known all of this! Which food does your cat eat?

 

Oh I was looking up the B12 for his legs, is there one for cats, or a certain brand that is best? Or just the same ones people use?

 

@Yong is our resident librarian and I know she has the info on which B12 works, and which one doesn't....but she might make you start a new thread before she'll answer that!

 

I use a people one.... Vitacost... Because you can just open the caplet and sprinkle it on. They are the same. Zobaline is marketed to diabetic cats and is used by many.


Just make sure it's methylcobalamin type of b12.

 

Ok, yes, you are right!!

 

Excellent! Thanks!

 

Your welcome. You can get people ones anywhere. I order from Amazon. Zobaline is on amazon too.

 

Yup, Methylcobalamin B12 is the one you want. I think these are the Vitacost that Janet is talking about: https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-b-12-methylcobalamin-500-mcg-300-capsules
The benefit of the Zobaline is that it also has folic acid which helps the B12 absorb better. If you get the Vitacost you may want to also get some folic acid (B9) vitamin. I think after adding the 2 products you are close to the price of Zobaline. Might save about $10 though

Found the items:
2 of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008NIHCZC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
and 1 drop of this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VVL6G0A/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I know

I know how you feel. The anxiety of not knowing if kitty will go low again is sometimes overwhelming. We test AMPS, PMPS and nadir during the day, try to get a test before bed and if I'm super paranoid, her nighttime nadir lol

 

That would be nuts!

 

Another teacher! We manage the diabetes like a classroom and I love it!

 

Haha we could rename this forum to The Teacher's Lounge

 

Yes I'll feel better once I know which numbers are "good"
I figured out the codes except for nadir - I do know it means a shot in the middle of the day to check blood sugar LOL

 

Omg you are amazing!!!!!!!
Thank you times a million!!! You are amazing. I appreciate you! And I pinky promise I will make a new thread...I just keep responding and never know when to make a new one, lol, but I'm trying!

 

Well right now I manage my classroom way better than Theodore's diabetes lol but hopefully real soon I will be better with all this! Thanks to you all!!

 

Nadir means the lowest point of the day, and it varies from cat to cat, and from insulin to insulin. For example vetsulin, which my cat used, usually peeks between +4-6. My cat usually hit nadir around 6... Sometimes 5.
ProZinc users often find nadir to be around +7.

 

Are you a teacher too? who is a teacher here? I know Janet said she's an art teacher!

 

"Good" numbers for human meters are 50-120. A cat is said to be regulated when they are consistently 300 and below at preshot and around 100 at nadir.

 

My cc was diagnosed last may.... May and June are such busy times of the year as you know so I was just treading water until school was over and I could put more attention to CC'S treatment. I started testing her at home the beginning of July. I made it my mission to learn as much as I could about fd over the summer and get her as regulated as I could. Her last shot was in Sept, the day before school started again.

 

That's so awesome Janet!! CC is a blessed kitty to have you! I'm so happy for you and CC!

 

What was your preshot tonight?

 

I am a former high school English teacher...theres's a lot of us here!

Nadir is just a test in the middle of the day...every cat's nadir is different and it can be a moving target. As you get more tests in, you'll learn when your cat's nadir is. Usually it's between +5-+7 but can be earlier or later!

 

Oh this is so good to know!! I wrote it down! Teddys preshot tonight was 302. He's still growling and hissing at me when I do it though and I'm being sweet and petting him...I didn't get the treats yet because I'm sick and didn't leave my house today.

I think he's hissing from pain though, I can't get him to walk!!! So sad. I lift him off the couch to try to get him to use the bathroom and I can tell he is in so much pain, even though I've given him the Meloxidyl. I am going to post a thread under the arthritis forum too. I don't know if it's arthrtis or diabetes. Maybe both. But it's not good and I hate that I can't be home with him if he won't walk!

 

I just wrote you a message, but it was 302. And I gave him 1 unit.

 

Awesome! and ok thanks!

 

I just sat down by Teddy, not even touching him, and he hissed at me. I am starting to feel so heartbroken! I am already heartbroken that he is sick, but now this? I think I need to call the vet about different pain medicine. I don't know. But I can't imagine Teddy doesn't love me anymore. Oh that sounds so dramatic...lol but he shouldn't be hissing at his mom!!!!

 

Aww Shawna. We know it's hard! Are you giving Teddy special treats at test time? Is there anything he really likes? Any games he likes to play or does he like being brushed or anything? Try to find something you can do with him during NOT test time that he enjoys...and treats every test. He does still love you, he's just feeling bad and maybe is a little freaked by all the changes, but he'll be fine! Everyone on this board has gone through the testing and shots and the cat being freaked out at the beginning, and they all got used to it and behaved with maybe the occasional cattitude. Trust me, if our cats never got used to it, we wouldn't all be doing it!

 

<3 thanks so much, xoxox, well he doesn't like to be brushed and for the last few days he has stopped walking!! I have to lift him off the couch to try to use the bathroom - and he will slowly walk back to climb back up his stairs to get in his spot. It's so sad. So brushing or playing won't work right now...I can barely touch anywhere on his lower half without him shaking or growling. I'm going to try the meat treats tomorrow. I think he must be in bad pain.
Thanks for your kind words. I just hope he at least will start to tolerate me doing the tests. I'm crossing my fingers the meat treats will work!

 

Maybe something in addition to the pain killer would help. Definitely get the zobaline going, but also something like cosequine and omega 3 supplements would help lubricate the arthritic joints.

 

You will get there! It's like navigating at a new school. It's tricky until you learn the ropes, and then it can still be tricky. But you have tons of support here!

 

I credit meat treats with helping my cat come around some. She briefly had a bout of inappetence at the start of her treatment, but it seemed like giving her boiled chicken with her food helped her get interested in it again. And boiled chicken and freeze-dried meat treats have helped a lot to console her about test and shot time, hahah. She has both chicken and fish freeze-dried treats, and while I give the fish ones sparingly in comparison to chicken, she goes really nuts for them -- I'd guess because they're so smelly! She barely argues about shot time anymore, and she used to squirm uncontrollably and growl. Now, pre-shot BG tests before her meals are a different story... she still gets so impatient for her food that she literally huffs and puffs. But maybe some tasty treats will get Teddy's attention too.

 

Ok yeah I'll ask the vet tomorrow about anything I can give with the Meloxidyl, and I'm going to order the supplements on Amazon.

 

Aww she huffs and puffs? That's so cute! Aww.
When people say freeze dried does that just mean freezing meat slices from the deli? I'm literally the worst in the kitchen so I'm just making sure I understand LOL

 

Oh, you can buy them. They're like dehydrated meat, very weird texture but the cats love it. I'm not sure what US brands are, but in the UK, I give her Thrive brand ones.

 

I give him the freeze dried chicken Pure Bites. You can get those on amazon too

 

Aw you are right. I've learned a lot so far. I can't believe how amazing this place is. I'm so thankful!!! I can't imagine how I would have figured this all out on my own. I'm glad to know you and everyone here xoxoxox

 

I am! Retired though. I taught high school physics and chemistry.

 

Oh oops....see I would have been freezing meat slices or something...and I wonder why Teddy is annoyed lol, haha just kidding. But thanks for clarifying...now I understand

 

Oh wow! Very cool. And high school physics and chemistry!! Wow, impressive!!! I'll stick with my first grade curriculum lol

 

These lovely people helped save my sanity on more than one occasion, and they helped me get Yoshi off insulin for 14 days (and counting). I had to go against my vet and follow my gut and the wise ones of this board (the same folks that have been guiding you) a few times, but it paid off. If you look at any of my threads you'll see my sheer insanity and utter confusion in the beginning, and a slightly calmer level of insanity and much less confusion now I can't thank everyone enough.

I'm way less experienced, but I'm trying to help the newbies and pay it forward as much as I can. And even if Yoshi stays in remission, I'll be popping in because I am eternally greatful and want to help others the way I was helped.

 

Yep! Big time science nerd here. It was a lot of fun but so is retirement!

 

Let me know what he says. I just ordered cc some nordic naturals omega 3 from Amazon... And upped her cosequine to 2 per day. Arthritis sucks. It's sad she can't jump to the top of her cat tree that she likes to go anymore. She stops half way up. She gets so happy when I put her up there.

 

You can get everything in amazon. I swear I get 2-3 deliveries a week of the most random things. Lol

 

Aw this makes my heart happy. Thanks for all your kindness and info you've shared with me. And someday I hope to pay it forward too! I'm forever thankful. xoxoxo

 

My partner is a teacher too.... High school English.

 

Awww yeah it really is awful. I will let you know what she tells me tomorrow. And I'm going to order from Amazon tonight. I am a little worried about being at work tomorrow now that Teddy has stopped walking...the worst case is he had an accident on the couch. I have wee wee pads all under the blankets on the couch. I just don't want to block him off in the kitchen or anything...if he wants to be on the couch, that's the least I can do is help him be comfortable wherever he wants.
Well if my cold doesn't get any better I might use a sick day. I never ever call in unless I have a fever. I missed one day of work this year when Teddy wasn't doing well one morning. But whenever I'm sick I trudge through....so I'll probably be there tomorrow too lol

 

That's excellent and yes, enjoy every moment of your retirement!!

 

Ask your vet if he could have a bit of diabetic neuropathy as well... it also makes them walk wonky and fail to run or jump. The zobaline Janet mentioned would help with that.

 

I hear ya... It's so hard to write sub plans and be out.... It's easier to just suck it up and go in. I think I took off once for being sick, once when my cat Zimmy died, and a few days when my 4 year old had the flu.

 

That's awesome. Teacher friends and cats... two of my favorite things all in one place! LOL

 

Yes way easier to just go to work
Aww, a four year old, do you have other kids?

 

Buddy...and his two feral friends...are now being fed Friskies Pate (Turkey & Giblets) and I sprinkle some Young Again Zero Mature kibble over it. There was some resistance by them to this change of diet initially, but they all seem to be adjusting to it.

 

Thanks for sharing! I think I'm going to try out the young again zero to leave out during the day. The vet said to only feed twice a day with the shots - but I have gotten good advice here on how to feed another smaller meal. The zero carb food sounds like it would be perfect since there are zero carbs? I need to learn a bit more on the carbs/blood sugar, but I'm glad I learned about this young again food!
Thanks again!

 

Nope, just the one. He will be 5 in June. This is him and his cat Julie.

 

Aw he is a cutie! And so is his cat... precious picture!!

 

He recently said "Mama, you know why cats love me? Because they know nobody loves them more than me." How sweet is that? This is him with one of the kittens we rescued from outside last fall... We found a home for her.

 

Ok Ms. Shawna, new thread in the morning for sure . Your SS is ready to go!

Edit: Oh I just saw your new thread

 

New thread! yay. And from now on I'll make new threads instead of creating hundreds of pages on one thread xoxoxo

Thank you for the spreadsheet!!! I'm forever thankful!! I'm downloading Google Sheets? now so I can open the spreadsheet. You are so wonderful!!!!! That was so kind of you!! I should know how to do stuff like that but I just don't. I'm learning though. But, thank you, thank you and thank you

P.S. his test right now at 9:15pm is 156. That's almost 3 hours from his one unit of insulin/dinner. Is that good????

 

Awww that really melts my heart!! How precious!!!!

 

I left you Djamila's video on how to link the spreadsheet in your Signature so others can see it . Just do that real quick

As for the 156, what was his PMPS?

 

Oh you are the BEST. Thank you xoxox

I am entering today's data, is there a way I can enter Friday and saturdays? Because I have it all written down on a paper here. Or if I don't need to?

His pmps at 6:30pm was 302.

 

Well, I'm a bit jealous. Mine just gave me a 275 at +3 after a 283 pre-shot, so I'm not too pleased with her, hahah. I don't think 156 is too bad for +3 after a 302! He should continue to go down for a few hours too, so just keep an eye on things. Sounds like you already have an idea of what to do even if he happens to get a bit too low again.

 

I was going to ask you how many insulin units you use but then I remembered that awesome spreadsheet! Your spreadsheet is so detailed - that's great!
Yong made my spreadsheet for me (I'm forever thankful!!) and told me how to do everything....so kind....so I'm going to start entering data every day too.
I'm starting to feel hopeful that Theodore is going to get well!!!!!

 

Yeah, you'll start to feel more confident once you can see the data all laid out in front of you in such a clear way. Plus, it's a visual confirmation of improvement as things get better, so even when you get frustrated (as I am lately), you can look back and realise that hey, at least it's better than it was X days/weeks/months ago.

We are tweaking Freya's dose a little at the moment. I somehow doubt the one she's on now will be the right one... that would be too easy! She for sure seems to require less ProZinc than she did Caninsulin/Vetsulin, at least for now. She was on 3.5u of Caninsulin/Vetsulin, and it was hitting her hard and leaving her system so fast. ProZinc seems to be much better for her, but her bouncing is driving me nuts. As I said, though, at least I can look back over the sheet and tell myself, well, at least she's getting more greens now. At least she's not all reds and pinks anymore. And no more black at all. I feel like that's another reason the spreadsheets are so invaluable. It's kind of reaffirming.

 

We awarded Blair with most attractive Spreadsheet award when she first posted

 

Hahah, I guess having been diagnosed with OCD at one point in my life had to be good for something?! Like... cat spreadsheets...

 

Also, I just checked out Teddy's numbers. I think I need to tell Freya to copy from his sheet. I might consider literally strangling someone for those numbers right about now.

 

Love to Kris and StephG but take a look at their kitty's spreadsheets, you'll give Freya a big hug!

 

I actually have seen them and been amazed that their humans are sane! I imagine Freya was a mess for the month(ish) before I started home-testing her. And recalling her crazy fructosamine levels at the time, I kind of shudder to imagine.

 

The kid is an old soul.

 

Steph and I have learned to cope!

 

Lovely photos, Janet!

 

HAHA My sanity is long gone!! I'm just good at faking it!
This forum has kept me from falling apart just about every day!

 

Theodore's pre pm shot was 189, do I still give one unit of insulin?

 

Well that must mean his numbers are ok/good?? I'm still learning what his numbers should be!
I hope Freya's numbers get to what you want them to be. Xoxoxo and like you said, at least they are better. Your kitty is blessed to have you xoxoxo

 

Awww xoxooxoxox best group of people ever!!
Aw is your cats name Chuck? That's ADORABLE lol

 

That's great! Let's do 0.75.... Just under 1.

 

Ok thanks so a skinny 1u

 

On the spreadsheet should I put .75 ?? Or just 1

 

You can put s1 to stand for skinny 1.