Who feeds dry and what do you feed?

I am having some aggression problems with my dear Pixie and coming
to the conclusion that he is pretty much hungry...very, very hungry.
My vet is absolutely fine with giving him a dry diet so he can have the higher
fiber content he is used to (was on IAMS Hairball/Weight Control)
I know everything on this site and other places believe wet is the way to go.
However, I am sure that there are cats that absolutely won't eat wet....so....

What dry food has been successful for you?
Does it have a high fiber content?

 

Typically unless a hairball formulation, dry is not much higher in fiber than canned.
However, there is Hill WD that is somewhat high is fiber
http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-fel ... anned.html
http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-fel ... n-dry.html

 

I think you're going to find that the vast majority of us do not feed any dry food...Unless and until the cat absolutely refuses to eat anything else...and there are lots of tricks to convert hard core dry eaters over to only wet.

Pixie will be eating a lot more until he's better regulated. His body can't utilize the calories he's getting properly until then. China used to be eating pretty much every time I saw her...Now she eats probably 1/3 of what she was eating, because her body is able to use the calories better.

There's one dry that a FEW people have used that I've seen talked about some. It's called Young Again Zero Carbs, and is only available online, but like a lot of us, your vet isn't giving you the best advice.

The amount of fiber in dry isn't the important number...it's the amount of carbs. Fiber makes you FEEL full, but isn't much of a food source. I couldn't tell you how many members I've seen who's vet's weren't up to date with the latest treatments for Feline Diabetes. I had to go to three just to find one that would put China on insulin! (and she's acting better than she has in years, peeing a lot less, eating less, playing much more like she used to, and being more loving and friendly. I thought she was just getting old and grumpy, but she's back to the cat I knew years ago...and is Purring more than I ever remember!!

You don't have to spend a fortune on wet food either....The Special Kitty brand at WalMart is cheap and low carb. Friskies pate's are also available in the big cans or the 5.5 oz ones.

Trying to regulate Pixie while on dry food may be a very frustrating thing, and most likely, won't work. I can honestly say I've only seen 1 member who's been able to get their cat off the juice while feeding dry, and that was the Young Again Zero Carb. (it's also very expensive)

We all use the food info listed here to guide us http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

I hope you'll continue experimenting with only wet foods. It really is the best thing for Pixie. Cat's also don't ever drink enough water, so the extra water in wet food helps take the strain off their kidneys (and Chronic Kidney Disease is another complication a lot of times with diabetic cats)

I think as you get him better regulated, his appetite will come down dramatically.

Good luck to you both! This sugardance can be frustrating, but the members here only want the best for your kitty...Nothing else

 

Hi Lauri and Pixie! Just wanted to stop in and say hi and tell you about my experience with wet & dry food. My vet AND a specialist told me feeding the veterinary diet dry was absolutely fine for Bob so I never tried to change his food. I kept increasing and increasing his insulin and he never came out of the 300/400's. Bob is a very picky cat and it was extremely hard to get him to eat canned. ONe day, he just started eating it and his numbers plummeted! If you look at his ss, you can see what happened - he went crazy low and I had to stay home and keep giving him syrup to keep him at a decent number. Anyway, the canned food was amazing and I started decreasing his insulin. Unfortunately, Bob is so picky that after about a week he absolutely would not eat the canned food. Right now I'm trying the Young Again dry and not quite sure what is happening yet.

I know ECID, but in my opinion, if your kitty will eat canned food, don't ever feed him the dry again. If Bob would eat the canned I would throw that stupid dry away so fast! It makes me sad he won't eat it because it's so much better for kitties - for their blood sugar and their kidneys. :sad:

And Chris is definitely right about the hunger. When Bob's numbers are high, every single time I look at him, he's eating and drinking or just hanging out by the food/water bowls, so I'm sure it's normal for Pixie to be feeling that way too because his numbers are still pretty high.

I know it's frustrating, I can't tell you how many times I've had to take Xanax during our 3-month adventure with feline diabetes. :roll: However, the people on this board are very helpful and knowledgeable and I learned a ton of great information. Hang in there!!

 

Thinking I may stick with the wet, but change to something a bit better like Evo.
Maybe this will keep him satisfied.
Luckily I have a cat that will eat anything.

 

I do not think that you can currently get Evo dry because of the recent recall
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... june-2013/

 

I recommend against the Hill's W/d dry (or wet) as it is very high carb. It was the food Wink was on before I took him in to foster and switched him to Fancy Feast pate style foods.

Your cat Pixie doesn't need more fiber in his diet to gain weight. He needs some more protein. You can add some plain cooked chicken to his meals, up to 15- 20% I believe it is per Dr. Lisa Pierson.

You might want to read this discussion about feeding your kitty. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31942 Original post was from 2010.

 

If I go by the food chart and try to pick a high protein/low carb food would it be better
to go with a higher quality food?
Do you think there is a difference between the protein in Fancy Feast vs. EVO or Merrick?

I can't get EVO around here, anyway.

Looks like the way to get the most protein and lowest carbs is the seafood route.
But it's not good to feed seafood all the time.
What if the am feeding was a high protein seafood and the pm feeding was a chicken/turkey? During the night doesn't
seem to be an issue. Luckily we are not getting attacked during our sleep!!

I would rather not have to have real chicken on hand to add to his diet.
I like the ease of opening a can and that's it.
I already add pumpkin to his diet.

 

Yes you can - I got a bag delivered earlier this week from Petflow.com - expiration 6/27/14. Had to replenish my emergency stash.


Em

 

EVO canned doesn't have a lot of protein. The highest is the Turkey/Chicken Cat/Kitten with 33%. The EVO's are very high in fat. Yes, your cat can gain weight on a high fat diet, but you need protein to build back any lost muscle mass. EVO would not be my choice.

All of the Friskies pates are higher in protein (41-49%) than the EVO food. Although, some of that protein in the Friskies is going to be from the rice, so lower quality plant protein.

Some of the Merrick looks good if your cat will eat it. Mine did for one cans worth and then turned his finicky nose up at it. Have you looked at any of the Weruva brand foods?

Bottom line is that fat is cheaper than protein for the cat food manufacturers and fish protein is still a cheaper source than beef/pork/chicken/turkey so that is why the manufacturers put so much fat and fish into their foods.

Have you considered maybe buying some frozen raw to add to their diet? That would bulk up the protein and you could keep small portions in the fridge to defrost. Sort of like the cat food 'cicles we suggest members make to leave their cat a mid-day snack while they are at work.

It's a real challenge to find a commercial canned food that is low carb, high in protein, not much fish, lower fat, affordable and something your cat will like. Good luck with your search.

 

I just requested a sample of Young Again.
Now, I know it is dry, but it also seems to have everything a diabetic cat should need
to hopefully go OTJ.
The feeding amount for a 13lb. cat is 3.5TBS per day. That sure doesn't sound
like a lot to me. But if correct, according to the site, it would be about .40 cents per day. One 8lb. bag should
last 3 months (104 days) This would be cheaper than the way I am feeding now.

I'd love to hear from anyone who feeds Young Again.

Now with the importance of feeding canned due to the water content, is there a way to add
enough water to your cats diet if you do feed dry.

I will continue feeding the canned until I find one that seems to satisfy Pix. I'm sure once he is regulated
things will get better.

 

I use the YAZC dry for my cat- it works well for him and he has maintained his OTJ status while eating it. Here are a few previous discussions about it--

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=95774

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=96174

Opinions vary, all cats are different, do what you feel is right to help your cat.

 

I have a very picky eater who generally refuses any kind of canned food. Out of desperation, and on the advice of my vet, I tried the Young Again Zero Carb dry. Mau is doing very well on it (has been on it since March) and meal times have ceased being so anxiety provoking. There is just nothing like a cat who won't eat, especially a diabetic one - good luck!

 

I think I mentioned before I am feeding Bob the YA. So far so good - it's keeping his numbers down. All 3 of my kitties are eating it actually. You should call Jennifer at Young Again (number is on the site) - she is extremely nice and helpful. They will tell you to free feed the YA - they cats will eventually eat only what they need. They will advise not to feed it with any other types of food. Warning -it makes their poo stink very bad! It's because they overeat at first and supposedly, it will go away after awhile. I know someone who has been feeding it since February and her kitty has diarrhea with it that hasn't gone away. She feeds her digestive enzymes to help with it. My kitties don't have diarrhea, but the smell is terrible! I would choose to feed canned if Bob would eat it but he won't.

Good luck!

 

My FOUR vets ALL say do not feed wet. And they are all senior well respected vets.

However, I think there is value in feeding wet and I'm a bit torn sooooo I feed both!

I have fifteen cats, fourteen were Feral to start with. Two are sugar cats.

My giant, Andre' is one tough hombre and loves wet. If I gave him wet he would be three hundred pounds. So I let them all graze to be sure they all get all the food they need and twice a day I give them all a small plate of canned mixed with thirty percent warm water. Matilda gets an upset belly with wet so only dry for her.

Their main wet diet is Wellness Chicken and Wild Callings Salmon (4% and 2% carbs)

In the dry dept I feed Natures Variety Chicken Meal and Wysong Epigen 90 in separate bowls throughout the house.
Natures Variety is 10% carbs and Epigen 90 is supposedly 1 % could be 3%. I may add Nutresca to the mix as it is low glysemic dry.

Matilda has never been to the vet I recognized the symptoms and my experience on this site allowed me to take care of it myself. Andre' has been tot he vet once. Matildas numbers usually hover aroun 115 to 150 midpoint but I have seen her down to 50 several times and even 20 a couple of times. She is one one unit BID and she eats only dry. I test her once a week.

 

I understand the logic in feeding wet to ensure your cat has a good water intake.
If I can get the YA to work for Pixie, and supplement with wet, I may do that.
I just don't think he will be able to free feed...he's an inhaler! He would have made
my Polish gramma happy...licking the plate clean every time!!

I'd like to hear how anyone feed a combo of both.
What do you think about mixing the dry with wet?

 

Tips to slow the scarfer:

- spread canned food thinly across a wide plate
- freeze part and put it to be thawed and nibbled after the fresh is done
- feed mini-meals if you are home
- use a timed feeder and portion out the food as 2-3 meals

 

I feed my cat the YAZC and she really does not overeat (at least not after the first week); so Pixie may surprise you on that. The calorie count is very high on the YA and my cat Ninja appears to be eating very little of it (like 2-4 tablespoons a day) - which worried me at first; but that amount seems to satisfy her appetite. She also drinks a lot of supplemental water with it (about 4 times the amount of my civilian cat who happily eats wet food - wouldn't you know); but that may just be my cat.

I do know of another person (though she does not post to this board) who got her cat into remission using both wet food and the YAZC. She eventually transitioned to all wet -- but the YAZC was helpful to her in managing the cat's BGs the early days. I think she did wet food at meal time and left out the YAZC in between; although I do remember her telling me that sometimes she would put the YAZC on top of the wet to encourage the cats to eat more of the wet food. She had two cats and I believe the YA helped her manage the two early on - until she could get them both over onto the wet food.

 

My Sugar Cat was an 18lb inhaler also- The YAZC slowed that down. He's now at 11lbs and free feeding- He only eats what he needs and the bowl lasts a while before I have to add to it.

 

Can you tell us their reasons or logic? I have never heard a vet say "never feed canned food", so I'm curious.

 

To those who feed YAZC...
I've exchanged emails recently with Michael, the President of Young Again. Seems like a really nice guy. Anyway, my question for you is about water consumption.

Do your cats drink a lot of water? Less than they did on regular dry food, or about the same? Is water a part of the Young Again protocol, I mean do they suggest providing water? My cat only eats LC canned, and he never drinks water. (He is in remission). Is the food itself more moist than dry kibble usually is?

Thanks,
Carl

 

Have a question for those who feed YA.
Pixie (since a baby) has frequently pooped outside the litterbox. On the basement floor.
We have tried EVERYTHING.....alas, he has always done this for whatever reason.
I don't dare move his litterbox (I have 2 downstairs and 1 upstairs) because I don't need
him pooping in other parts of the house.
With that said....does the raunchy poop smell go away?? I can just imagine the smell if it is not covered with litter
and it would not be a choice for me.
I am hoping you will say the smell isn't as potent after awhile.

 

Hi Carl, I've been lurking here reading for the past week or two. I just started feeding the YAZC about 10 days ago, one of our 5 cats was just diagnosed 4 weeks ago. All the cats drink water, they always have, I've not noticed a change in that. Two of them, Dude (sugar cat) and Bobbi, jump on to my bathroom sink to drink from the faucet, again, this is normal for them.

I've not noticed that it is softer than or moister than regular dry kibble, it is not uniform in shape but it is crunchy. The ZC snacks however are softer. My herd all comes to bed with me, (that is snuggle and treat time) everyone gets Temptations except for Dude, he gets the YAZC treats and doesn't seem to mind, maybe he likes being 'special'.

BTW, hugs to you.

Lynn

 

Activated charcoal is an adsorbent which binds to the odor molecules. Baking soda works too. Put some of either in a shallow tray and place it near the problem area.

They do make odor absorbing air cleaners; these typically have a charcoal layer to filter, too.

Is the litterbox big enough? I use cement mixing trays from Home Depot - they're about 50% longer and have nice deep sides to keep the litter from being kicked out as much.

 

I have read recently, I think in LL TR, that someone noticed the smell becoming less potent once the food had been fed for a while.

And Lynn, thank you for the hugs.

Bob must be some sort of freak as far as water goes. He never drinks it. I have three bowls that I change every day, and he never touches them. Before I lost Mullet, the water was obviously getting drunk every day, and I'd see him in it very often but I couldn't tell for certain that Bob wasn't helping him empty the bowls since I wasn't around all day to watch. But now with only Bob, I can tell he isn't drinking at all. Weird because they both ate the same exact food every meal... Mullet did have issues though.

 

Any cat on dry food is going to drink more water even if it is low carb.

I had 3 civvies on canned with dry food for grazing up until Catinfo.org knocked me up-side the head about dry food this past February. They were thirsty water drinkers - drank all three water bowls dry everyday and if I turned on a faucet, they were right there with their mouths under it. Since switching to raw and canned - the water bowls get dusty because they get all their hydration from their food. I have one water bowl out because I am giving Miralax to one civvie who I believe has Inflammatory Bowel Disease, but it is never depleted. All my cats have nice solid poops that don't smell. I wholeheartedly believe that the dry food is what caused them to drink so much water. I am also seeing less fur balls so I am assuming that their stomachs aren't as irritated.

Carb-wise, the Young Again is great for dry addicts who need lower carbs in their diet but I would still be concerned about a whole lot of other health issues. I will always advocate transitioning off of dry food completely - no matter how long it takes. I find that Vets are educated about nutrition by the pet food companies who make more money on dry food than wet. I worked for an association that represented these companies and even planned some of these educational seminars. These are the same companies who are advertising more nutritional food for your pets because they have veggies and fruit in them. They figure that if we know that veggies and fruits are healthy for us, then they are healthy for pets too. As the pet food industry has grown so have our vets. Vet hospitals are replacing the small vet practices.

A really good book to read on cat nutrition is Michelle Bernard's- Raising Cat's Naturally http://www.raisingcatsnaturally.com/

As for pooping outside the box -I would try Cat Attract litter. I have a cat who likes to poop and pee over the edge of the litter box so I got a high-walled sterilyte container and cut a 9x9 inch whole in it .

 

I have been using the YA zero carb dry for about 2 months now, in addition to the FF pates, I definitely see more water being consumed since we started it (vs wet only), I bought two new fountains (which took a few days to get them interested in) to increase their interest in the water. The fountains are nice in that the moving water gets their attention more, but with this many, I pretty much have to rinse and refill them every day because of fur and other contaminants. *shrug* I was doing that with the other water dishes too so, not a huge issue.

Basically I leave the YA down for them to graze on in case I can't for whatever reason feed them right when they happen to be hungry. The interesting thing with Mr. Frog tho, is that he will only eat the YA when he sees me opening cans of the wet... He comes to me, asks for food, when I go to get it, he munches on the YA, and then eats his wet food too (small amounts tho, even before the YA was introduced) Usually just a few bites (of YA) it looks like, but ... he's been doing it every time this last week or so *shrug* Whatever makes him happy I guess.

When I first started the YA, I was only using maybe a cup a day amongst all the beasties, but they're up to 2 cups(ish) a day now, probably partially due to the fact that I've had to be out of the house for extended periods lately. Still not a lot considering how many I have imo. It makes me feel a lot better to know that if something happens (which it often does) to where I can't be there to feed them when they get hungry, they at least do have an option besides just being really hungry (which seems to cause vomiting sometimes)

Regarding poo smell, so far things are still stinky, but it seems to be softer than when it was just the wet food (still formed, just ... larger diameter and softer)

 

I was initially impressed by the Nutrisca and it was recommended by our local pet food store. The ingredients are good and it's made with free range chicken and has a very low glycemic index. HOWEVER, even with the low glycemic index, the percent of carbs is stil in the 23-25% range, according to the company.

 

I used to have a cat that did that too. I had a piece of vinyl flooring under the box and he would always go in the same corner. But I found it helpful because the appearance of his poop let me know if I needed to increase his meds because he had hemolytic anemia. He was a weird little guy...I didn't really see a problem with it other then the smell :YMSIGH: