Why is Purina DM dry food bad

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by katawba, Sep 19, 2012.

  1. katawba

    katawba New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    My cat Duncan has just started insulin injections and so far so good. I don't have a problem with the injections as I worked for a Vet for 9 years and can deal with the treatments. No problems with stress of my cat being diabetic as I have just gone through 6 months of cancer treatment and realize that there are worse things in life than having to worry over things you can't do anything about other than what you can do. My question is the Purina DM dry food suppose to be bad for a diabetic cat. It has a pretty low carb count. My vet recommended this food, but I alway check around and see what other information is available. The only info I have found said it should not be used, nothing about why. Thanks.
     
  2. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    We don't think any dry food is an ideal diet for a carnivore. A vet explains why here: www.catinfo.org

    A lovely lady named Janet set up a food chart for us. Here is the page for dry food: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/dryfood.html As you can see, Purina DM is 13% carbs. We suggest staying below 8% and many of us feed in the 5% range. Carbs can make a huge difference in glucose levels. Our Oliver was eating Science Diet dry. We switched to wet low carb and his levels dropped 100 points overnight.
     
  3. Lori&Scout

    Lori&Scout Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2012
    What Sue said! But also...

    Check out my spreadsheet in the link below. After diagnosis, I fed both my cats Purina DM canned and dry. Once I came here and found out about the dry food being "bad", I put it up out of Scout's way so my civvie could finish the dry at her leisure. Come to find out, Scout was getting into it still. After I caught her, I took it away and switched both cats to various low carb canned foods, with NO dry food. There is a colored horizontal line in the spreadsheet labeled "Absolutely no more dry food."

    And that was the last day I had to give Scout insulin.

    HTH,
    Lori
     
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  4. Blue

    Blue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Well, you don't have to believe what anyone says, and that goes for your vet as well... just do a test for yourself.

    keep feeding your cat that dry food, home test, and record the BG numbers and insulin dosel
    Once you have a week or two of numbers, change the food.... I warn you that you better be prepared in case your cat's numbers, and also insulin needs, drop like a stone.

    The proof is literally in the eating.

    There are so very many cats who are DIET CONTROLLED and that is on low carb wet food or a raw diet. People had shown up here, on this site, and once they SAFELY switch from dry to wet food, their cats need NO insulin.

    There have been some owners who changed foods, their cats went off insulin, and they stopped posting here. Some of them come back after a time, saying their cats are back on insulin again.... why? Because they get slack on the food dept and went back to the old dry foods!

    I think if you look up some info on feline diabetes, you will find that your cat's pancreas has issues, is not 100% healthy/strong and just can't handle all those carbs, so when you switch over to a better diet, you help your cat out...

    Awhile back, there was one person who posted on the board that they were giving their cat 20units of insulin twice a day! After hearing that, we asked what food was being fed.... it was dry food. Once the cat switched from dry to wet, that cat needed 1unit of insulin twice a day.

    I went looking for the ingredients list and here is what I found. What is the 'as fed' carb percentage? You want to be feeding way under 10% and most aim for closer to maybe 5%?
    Ingredients (Dry)
    Poultry by-product meal, soy protein isolate, corn gluten meal, soy flour, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), corn starch, animal liver flavor, calcium carbonate, phosphoric acid, fish oil, potassium chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, DL-Methionine, choline chloride, taurine, powdered cellulose, salt, Vitamin E supplement, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, niacin, manganese sulfate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite. L-4574

    Am I looking at the wrong info? It says the dry carb% is 18% and THAT is horrible for a diabetic.
    http://www.purinaveterinarydiets.com/Pr ... tFood.aspx

    Try the test and you will see. Be sure that you are home testing because you may find your cat needs less and maybe no insulin faster than you think.
     
  5. Hi,
    Dry food is not good for cats, whether they are diabetic or not. Cats are obligate carnivores, and dry food contains too much plant matter. Even at 14% carbs, that DM food is too high for a diabetic cat. Cats have zero requirement for carbohydrates in their diet. Their bodies are designed to turn proteins and fats into glucose/energy and any carbs at all in their diet are more than they need, whether they are diabetic or not. Their systems are not designed to process plant/vegetable matter.
    Sue linked you to Dr. Pierson's website which tells you exactly why dry food is terrible to feed a cat, and the long-term health problems it can cause. Here's another link about feline nutrition that you might find of use. It also describes how cats' teeth are designed to work, and they are not designed for crunching and chewing:

    http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm


    Carl
     
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  6. Martica and Fred

    Martica and Fred Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Imagine if all you ate your entire life was cereal? Even if it was supplemented with vitamins and had an OK macronutrient compositon (carbs/fat/protein), it's still dry processed crap. We need ourselves and our cats to eat as naturally as possible for optimum health. And CatInfo.org can tell you the rest...
     
  7. Julia & Bandit

    Julia & Bandit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Purina DM is too high in carbs for a diabetic (13%) and contains some highly glycemic ingredients that are bad for diabetics (corn starch and corn meal). However, even if you were able to find a dry food that is very low in carbs and did not contain highly glycemic ingredients, it would still not be good for your cat. Diabetes is not the only health problem caused by dry food.

    Cats evolved in the desert, so their thirst drives are not like dogs or people. They need moisture IN their food in order to stay properly hydrated. Studies have shown that no matter how much you see your cat drinking from the water dish, it will never make up for the loss of moisture in dry food; therefore the cat ends up chronically dehydrated. Chronic dehydration causes all sorts of nasty problems over time, like Chronic Kidney Disease and Urinary Tract Disease.

    It is also very, very important to keep a diabetic cat well hydrated--dehydration is one of the triggers for an expensive and potentially deadly complication from diabetes called diabetic ketoacidosis. http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Ketoacidosis
     
  8. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    Dry food diets may increase the chances of developing renal disease by constantly keeping the cat in a state of dehydration. As noted above, cats won't drink enough to compensate for the dehydrated food.
    If you've ever had a cat with renal disease and watched as they got sicker and sicker from increasing uremia (waste products building up in the blood), you would want to avoid that by feeding a wet diet. It is heart wrenching to watch the gradual deterioration and worse to have euthanize because nothing can heal the damaged kidneys.
     
  9. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Proper feline nutrition is *not* just about carbohydrates.

    Please take some time so stare at Opie's pictures here and understand that this level of intense suffering would not be happening so incredibly **frequently** if humans would just get over their love affair with water-depleted diets.

    http://www.catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth

    After >35 years in this profession, I am getting to the point of wishing that all humans who insist on feeding dry food to cats experience what it is like to have a cork inserted into their urethra.

    Now...having said that...I fed a 100% dry food diet to my cats for 10 long years before I 'wised up'. It is never too late to learn.
     
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  10. RuthV

    RuthV Member

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    Jul 15, 2010
    The proof is literally in the eating.

    There are so very many cats who are DIET CONTROLLED and that is on low carb wet food or a raw diet. People had shown up here, on this site, and once they SAFELY switch from dry to wet food, their cats need NO insulin. .

    -------------------

    I can vouch for that. My Joey was OTJ after 2 mos. of insulin and NO dry.
     
  11. Emily & Bear Birse

    Emily & Bear Birse New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2015
    Hey! I see that this is a. Old thread, but I am in need of help!!! My cat was just diagnosed with diabetes. He is 4. He is currently on 3U of insulin 2 times a day. I had gotten some prescription food from our vet (dry and wet) to mix together. He has always been on a dry diet. I have researched this a bit and understand that I need to move him to wet. That is what he prefers anyway. My issue is that I have two other cats 3 total, and only one has diabetes. I need to be able to feed them all the same food... And I need something cost savvy. I can afford a little bit more than regular cheap food, but this Purina DM is crazy expensive (that's what my doc wants to put my cat on now). Do you have any tips for what to feed him along with my other cats that will control his diabetes and hopefully get him off insulin??? Thanks so much!!
     
  12. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    A lot of us with multi-cat households and living on a budget feed everyone Friskies pate's, Fancy Feast Classics or 9-Lives pates

    They're all low carb foods that are fine for diabetics (and the ingredients are comparable to DM) There's nothing special about "presciption" foods other than the price

    One BIG caveat....DM dry is very high carb, so if you switch to a low carb diet, make sure you're testing often at home. Dropping the carbs can reduce the blood glucose 100 points or more

    3U is a high dose and when you change to low carb diet, that may be way too high a dose! Most of our cats we start on .5 to 1U twice a day and work up slowly so we don't bypass what could be a "perfect" dose (and it also keeps them safe)
     
  13. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 26, 2015
    Changing from an all dry, high carb diet over to a canned/raw low carb diet made a HUGE change in my Squallie's BG; he dropped from 7U to 2U in very short order! So yes, please make sure to closely monitor your baby's BG as you make the transition! :)
     
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  14. Mogmom and Goofus

    Mogmom and Goofus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014

    It's definitely a little tougher when you have multiple cats (I have 6) and only one is a sugar baby. Goof HATED canned food so the switch took about 6 weeks. I can't even begin to tell you how many puddles of vomit I had to clean up. :banghead: To the others I feed a mix of Friskies canned and Evo (which is still pretty pricey but one of two low carb )dry. Not to sound like a "gloomer and doomer" here, but you might as well resign yourself to the fact that feeding is never going to be easy again, you'll just need to learn to live a "new normal". You'll see that expression fairly often here. :cat:
     
  15. Emily & Bear Birse

    Emily & Bear Birse New Member

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    Nov 19, 2015
    Thanks guys!!! I think we are switching everyone over to Fancy Feast Classics :) I just started a profile and am hoping to become an active part of this amazing community!!
     
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  16. Kerrie & Winnie

    Kerrie & Winnie Member

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    Dec 31, 2015
    Thank-you for all that information - it's really helpful! But I'm still confused. I have been getting as much information as I can on Friskies versus the Purina DM canned food and except for the cost (which is clearly in Friskies' favor), there are conflicting arguments. Carbs in Friskies patés are about 5% versus 10% in the Purina DM Savory Selects (6% in the Purina DM paté, but my cat won't touch that version), so Friskies does better in that regard. However, there is more protein in the DM canned (49% for the Savory Selects versus about 38% for Friskies), BUT it's not clear how much of that comes from meat and how much comes from wheat gluten and soy. And finally, the Friskies patés have a lot of fat - based on as-fed numbers I got from the company, the classic Seafood Entree is 57% fat. So...which is nutritionally better????
     
  17. Julia & Bandit

    Julia & Bandit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    You'll drive yourself crazy trying to compare foods by what's listed on the can, which is the Guaranteed Analysis. It's done in minimums and maximums, so basically those numbers are useless because you can't use them to compare one food to another.

    A better way to compare foods nutritionally is through the As-Fed Analysis, broken down by % per 100 kcal. You'll find a food chart with this done for most foods here: http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

    The ideal diet for a cat is low carbs (less than 10%), moderate fat, and high protein.

    Purina DM Savory selects is 51% protein, 39% fat, and 10% carbs, which is borderline ok for a diabetic cat. Some diabetics are fine at 10%, but some need lower than 8% to really get a good handle on their blood sugar. Also, wheat gluten and soy are not things that should be fed to any cats. I'm not sure what brand Friskies Pate you're feeding, but the seafood entree is 49% protein, 43% fat, and 9% carbs. So pretty much the same as the DM, but without the wheat gluten and soy. If it were me, I'd say the Friskies is the better food of the two.

    However, there's a ton of other foods you can feed--just check out the list. Bandit eats a mix of various Weruva flavors and Wellness Core. Many people here feed Fancy Feast pates, and their cats love them, and they're nearly identical nutrionally to the Purina DM pate. Any food that is lower in carbs and your cat will eat is fine to feed.
     
  18. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    The earlier in the ingredient list, the greater the proportion of the food is made up of each ingredient.

    Purina DM Ingredients (from Purina's Website):

    Ingredients (Canned)
    Liver, poultry by-products, meat by-products, water sufficient for processing, chicken, salmon, oat fiber, salmon meal, artificial and natural flavors, guar gum, calcium phosphate, potassium chloride, carrageenan, salt, Vitamin E supplement, taurine, thiamine mononitrate, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, niacin, calcium pantothenate, copper sulfate, Vitamin A supplement, manganese sulfate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, biotin, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, potassium iodide. J-4573

    There is more liver than any other ingredient in DM Canned.

    Is that the amount of energy coming from fat? It sounds extraordinarly high for an as-fed percentage of fat as an ingredient.


    Mogs
    .
     
  19. Kerrie & Winnie

    Kerrie & Winnie Member

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    Dec 31, 2015
    Re. the fat percentage - I agree, it sounds extremely high. I got that using numbers the company (Purina) emailed me a couple of days ago for Friskies Classic Paté Seafood Entrée. They gave me the following data:
    Crude Protein - 12.3%
    Crude Fat- 7.5%
    Crude Fibre - 0.1%
    Moisture- 76.0%
    Ash- 2.5%
    Taurine- 0.11%.
    I converted the %s to calories per 100 grams and then did the % division among protein, fat, and carbs. Maybe I did the math wrong. (BTW, the crude fat percentages they gave me were between 7-8% for all the patés.) Please let me know if you get different results.
     
  20. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2015
    most vets do not deal with FD often enough or really think enough people would go to the "trouble" we on this forum do for our kittys-
    Your at the vet-cat is dx enter…..>DM -a bottle of insulin and a dose (usually a guess) and you pay and go-
    My vet is learning more about diabetes from me (the forum) than he ever learned in school--and although it is true many people will not go thru all of these changes and hopes of remission if we can get 1 vet at a time to start thinking differently we can make a dent in this disease.
    I am so glad you didnt just get the DM and blind dose--awesome!
     
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  21. Liza16

    Liza16 New Member

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    Jul 19, 2016
    Purina feline DM in both wet and dry formulations has been proven to put feline diabetes into remission...no more need for insulin which is great! As cat owners we know alot about our own cheeky little feline friends, however it's worth remembering that the majority of vets DO know the right form of treatment for all kinds of medical issues including diabetes. They are professionals who base their diagnosis amd subsequent treatment on fact and experience. There is alot of information on the internet about pet dietary issues etc and most of it is old wives tails and heresay. Feline Diabetes is caused by obesity, obesity is caused by owners overfeeding them and not giving them enough opportunity to exercise.
     
  22. donnalea

    donnalea Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    The canned DM cat food is good. It is very low carb(3). The dry DM is much higher in carbs and has corn as the forth ingredient. My vet put Callie on 1/4 can of the wet food and 1 tab of the dry. After reading ine ingredients in the dry, I put it in a cupboard and just increased Callie's food to 1/3 of a can. I won't gove any of my pets corn.
     
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  23. Wulfwin

    Wulfwin Member

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    Nov 4, 2010
    Feline diabetes is not solely caused by obesity. Both of my cats that have been diabetic have never been overweight. The first (Jason) was actually an elderly emaciated stray that was still 2 lbs underweight when diagnosed as diabetic (after gaining 2 lbs from when he arrived at the shelter). In his case, there were a multitude of factors that played into his diabetes (bad teeth, systemic infection, and high carb dry food); when all 3 of those issues were addressed, he went off insulin after 2 months. My second cat's (Rain) diabetes was induced by steroids. I have historically had problems keeping her from being underweight due to eating issues (related to food allergies and undiagnosed pancreatitis). She was diagnosed as diabetic 3 weeks after a steroid shot for her asthma (I suspect that the steroid was the straw that broke the camel's back, and her prescription dry food for food allergies and undiagnosed pancreatitis had her at the cusp of being diabetic up to that point). At the time, she was actually about 1 lbs under her ideal weight. A short course of insulin, diagnosing/treating her pancreatitis, and switching to low carb wet food, and Rain is also now off insulin after 2 months.
     
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  24. Karen and Govie

    Karen and Govie New Member

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    Nov 5, 2016
    Hello, my situation is a mirror image of Emily & Bears post. I would like to switch to all can Fancy Feast classic which is what I feed now and drop the Purina DM. I need to know how to 'safely' drop the dry and what changes to the amt of can should I feed? I'm afraid of Govie getting constipation which is what happened 5mos ago after taking away dry. I have tried Miralax which I found info about on FDMB and is working out great. I haven't done a ss yet as I'm new to the board, but Govie's 15yo, 3yrs on Lantus. Dry is out all the time and they get 1/2 can 3x a day
     
  25. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 26, 2015
    The safest way to transition to all wet is to do it slowly, mixing increasing portions of the wet with decreasing portions of the dry. YOU MUST BE HOME TESTING!!! I cannot stress this enough! This is the ONLY WAY TO ENSURE YOUR KITTY'S SAFETY when you switch from dry to wet food. As dry is eliminated from the diet your cat's insulin needs will most likely decrease. You MUST TEST FREQUENTLY to avoid potentially deadly hypos during the transition.

    As to the amount to feed - There is a formula that can help give you a rough idea: (kitty's ideal weight x 13.5) +70 = number of ounces of food. If, for example, your cat's ideal weight is 12 pounds, that would be (12 x 13.5) +70, or 162 + 70 = 232 ounces of food daily. From there you can adjust the amount up or down depending on your cat's specific needs.

    Pure, plain canned pumpkin can be added to kitty's food to help with both constipation and diarrhea. Most cats seem to like the taste, or at least, not hate it, lol. I add about a 1/2 to 1 teaspoon to AM and PM meals. Just make sure it is plain, without spices, NOT the pie filling!
     
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  26. donnalea

    donnalea Member

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    Jun 18, 2016
    Did you mean calories instead of ounces? 232 ounces of food would be a LOT of cat food.
     
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  27. Karen and Govie

    Karen and Govie New Member

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    Nov 5, 2016
    Hey, thank you very much! I absolutely home test, I alternate between ears..my major question is how is testing done as many times a day as I'm reading that people are doing? I mean, I was told by my vet to chk bg 5 hours after am shot every other day. Now, mind u, I am quite experienced with animals, owning cats, dogs and horses. I've also a groomer of 30 yrs having owned 2 dog grooming shops. But even at the rate of my testing, there's still a tiny little pinkish spot in her ear from the last chk. It's just hard for me to imagine poking her that much every day..looking forward to learning more
     
  28. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    While that's better than what a lot of vets say, it's still not enough testing.....we've seen cats that went from 400 to 40 and back to 400 in the same 12 hour cycle....without testing every cycle, every day, you would have thought the cat needed more insulin when in fact, it needed less!!

    The ears toughen up after awhile.....As you can see, China's a pure white cat and I'd bet you couldn't tell which ear I test! (and as you can see on our spreadsheet, I test a lot!) A little Neorsporin with pain relief ointment after pokes will help them heal quicker, as will making sure you apply pressure for a good amount of time after the poke to reduce bruising.

    Cats also refuse to read the rule book that says they always nadir at the same time!! With enough testing, you can usually get a general idea of when your cat will nadir, but (being cats) as soon as you think you have it figured out, they'll change it!!!...LOL
     
  29. ilovecats54

    ilovecats54 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2017
    Hi all, I just found this forum, and have a question. Currently I am feeding newly diagnosed sweetie, Chester, the DM pate. He is very skinny, so have any of you had your furbaby gain weight from DM pate? I know many times kitties are overweight when diagnosed, but my little guy desperately needs to gain weight. Also, how long will it take to start putting on some weight? I am by nature lacking patience, and worry excessively about everything, but am hoping to find someone who's kitty has put on weight, to put my mind at ease. He probably should gain about 2-3 pounds. Thank you!
     
  30. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    If you repost in this forum on your own thread with a question mark at the beginning of your post's title, more people will see it. Right now it's buried in someone else's thread.

    I feed my diabetic cat a mixture of DM pate and Friskies or Fancy Feast pates. Those grocery store brands are fine and much easier on the budget. The key when feeding is no kibble. Regarding weight gain: an unregulated diabetic can't properly use the nutrient's from his food so gaining weight will be difficult. You can feed more meals per day even though many vets specify only 2 meals a day. That doesn't work for most FD kitties.

    We can certainly help alleviate your worries as well as give you guidance on how to deal with FD. Here's some info that we ask for so we can get up and running ASAP:
    • kitty's age and date of diagnosis
    • what insulin was prescribed and what dose
    • what you feed your kitty
    • whether you are testing blood glucose at home and, if so, what meter you use
    • other health issues your kitty has and any meds he's on.
    Welcome! :)
     
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  31. ilovecats54

    ilovecats54 New Member

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    Jan 24, 2017
    Thank you, I just started my own "conversation" and when I had to choose participants I chose you and myself, hope that is right and that it will get out to everyone eventually - I'm new to this and was surprised at having to choose participants.

    Just figured it out and started a thread instead of conversation. Thanks so much!
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
  32. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    YES! Thanks for catching and correcting that, lol!
     

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