Would someone please look at Squallie's spreadsheet?

Hi all. Would someone with more experience than me please take a look at Squall's ss for me? I don't understand why his numbers have been so high the past few days. Is this a bounce? I haven't seen any really low numbers that I would think might cause a bounce! I would really like to see these high numbers start to come down. Nothing has changed, diet wise, except for the occasional snack of YA Zero Carb dry food. I have stopped giving him that as of yesterday, just in case, but it is zero carb food so I don't really think that's the culprit here.

Any and all input is welcomed, thank you!

 

Actually, it is about 5% calories (not weight) from carbohydrates. There are some carbohydrates in liver as it stores glycogen which may be broken down into glucose.

I'm thinking bouncing.

You're rolling the Vetsulin thoroughly, right?

 

Yes, same as I have always done with it. But I can certainly roll it longer, if that might be the problem. Would the dry food be causing this? I just don't seem to be able to break this cycle.

 

I'm not familiar with Vetsulin, but could it have lost potency for some reason?

 

Well, I guess anything is possible. I don't know.

 

I think it's probably bouncing too...not from some "unseen" low, but because Vetsulin is so harsh and is dropping his numbers hard and fast and then wearing off

Bounces happen for more reasons than just hitting a "too low" number....Fast, deep drops set up bounces too.

I'd also bet that there was another fast, hard drop last night which set him up for the bounce into the 400's this morning but since you didn't get another test in, I can't say for sure

 

With the morning highs, he may not be eating enough as he drops after dinner.
Any way you could consider ProZinc or BCP PZI? They're both more gentle than the Vetsulin, but similar enough that it wouldn't be too difficult for the vet to understand how to work with them.

 

My new vet uses both of those, I'm pretty sure. I can ask him when I call.

I could be wrong but I don't think he's getting a fast, hard drop at night because the two nights I got tests in, he was higher at +5 than he had been when I gave his shot; looking back over his ss, I don't see that as being a very usual incident for him. It has happened a few other times but seems to me to be the exception rather than the rule? I think he usually gets a faster, harder drop than he has these past few nights. And he does tend to go lower at night as a rule.

I tested him at +4 and he'd dropped from 468 to 134.

 

That's quite a drop! 334 mg/dL

 

Yes, it sure is. But I don't think he's dropping like that at night, the couple of tests I have gotten in the past few nights don't really seem to follow the pattern that seems indicative of that kind of drop. And then he has those really high AMPS readings. It seems like his PM dose isn't controlling his BG. I think tonight I'm going to try and monitor him through the night. He's got to be having a big drop somewhere overnight, that's all I can think, even though it doesn't look, to me, like he would, it just has to be. Nothing else seems to make any sense.

EDITED TO ADD: But if that's what is happening overnight, why is he not getting the same high numbers at the end of the daytime cycle? I don't get it.

 

So if he's having a hard, fast drop at night, it seems to me that it has to be happening before the +5 mark. (Sorry to keep rambling, but it really helps me to get it all straight in my head!)

 

Let me give you some examples:

On 9/3, he dropped from 354 to 150 in 5 hours...Not a horrible drop, but still a drop of 204 points (and we don't know if he dropped 150 points in the first hour and 54 points over the next 4 hours or anything else about how fast he dropped)....ALSO from the numbers he's had since you started, it looks like his body has gotten pretty "used to" living in the 300's and 400's, so dropping to 150, although not too low, is still unfamiliar territory for him....then as the insulin wore off, and he started to bounce, he had the PMPS of 2o1....then +5 of 318....then the 9/4 AMPS of 460....Once he started bouncing, he went straight up

Now we're at 9/4...AMPS 460 and he dropped all the way into green (93)...then started another bounce..again straight up to PMPS 201, then 373 @+5 and AMPS on 9/5 of 458

9/5 we're starting at 458....but he only dropped into yellow and just kind of stayed there....Flat yellows can be an "early warning" that something interesting is going to happen on the next cycle, but since you didn't get any tests last night after the PMPS of 275, we can't know...he MAY have gone much lower again or dropped fast again, which set him up to bounce again to 468 this morning

Just a theory but may explain the crazy numbers!

Vetsulin is a hard insulin to work with because of it's fast, hard drops and it's tendency to wear off early....the ProZinc or BCP PZI may work better, or even trying a totally different insulin like Lantus or Levemir might help

 

Okay, I follow that logic, thanks for explaining to me how this is most likely occurring! Now, what can I do to break this cycle?

 

Can anybody tell me how to set up Squallie's ss so his vet can view it? Thanks.

I just tested him again and in two hours his BG has gone from 134 to 296. It has more than doubled in those two hours. And he's only six hours into his daytime stretch. *sigh*

Well, I definitely need to talk to his vet about changing to a different insulin. I hope it is not too expensive, I don't pay much for the Vetsulin and I'm pretty sure the others are a fair bit higher.

He seemed to be doing really well on the Vetsulin until a week or so ago. Wonder what happened, that changed everything?

 

I think you can just copy the link of the spreadsheet and send it to him.(https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10rP7vZ4qXslxevHbK_IfqcnsBBGrI3Evmva-HXvTW7Q/edit?pli=1#gid=0)

 

Thank you!

 

I was able to monitor Squallie last night up to +6 hrs and I didn't see any hard, fast drops. But based on his recent history, I'll bet he's going to have one today, before or around +6. If this is the result of a bounce, how do I stop it?!? I've noticed, as well, that he's not getting anywhere near the duration from the Vetsulin that he used to get.

Should I raise his dose-or lower it-or should I just stay the course? I really would like to see this stop!!!

 

It looks like a bounce or the insulin just isn't lasting long enough to me. Lucy. Unfortunately they are two different problems with two different solutions. Could you get a number around +8 and +10 today to see when he starts up and whether it is an abrupt rise or a flatter one?

 

Maybe the daytime drops are resulting in the night time highs.
He's eating a good 30-60 minutes before you shoot, right?
Maybe add in a tablespoon of food at +2 to help buffer the drop.
The BCP PZI is pretty inexpensive. I believe @Larry and Kitties has used it, as he has a high dose cat.

 

No problem, I can do that. Of course, today he isn't dropping like he has the last few days! Figures, lol. I guess that's the type of situation that is making this so hard for me to grasp, there doesn't seem to me much rhyme or reason to what's going on with him at the moment. I have removed the Zero Carb dry from his diet, just in case; I am making sure the FF classics are those that are low in carbs and don't contain liver; If it's his food I have no idea why. And nothing else has changed inn his environment. And his BG doesn't seem to be following a pattern that makes sense to me. I am baffled.

 

Yes, he is. It's difficult, though, to get him to eat more than 1-1.5 ozs at a time, so maybe he's just not eating enough? It's worked for him in the past, though. I have been really pushing to get him to eat a little more now, at all his meals, in case that's part of the issue. I gave him a snack yesterday and at +2 but it didn't seem to help, he still had that big drop by +4. And today, no big drop at all so far, it looks more like what he's been doing during the night. I don't get it . But these high numbers are starting to worry me considerably.

Definitely asking the vet about changing insulins.

 

Oh, Lucy, I feel your pain! We are in the same boat over here and to compound things, last night I shot out through his skin so he was probably high the whole night. UGH!!! You are in good company or I should say bad company because I am getting rather cranky! LOL

 

I can definitely empathize! I just don't understand why it's doing this, and I don't like it when I son't understand what's going on and why!

Sorry you and Bubba are going through this, too, but, as they say, misery loves company, so we can share this boat, lol!

 

The important thing is that you are working to keep him in good safe ranges by testing him regularly. I think one of the hardest aspects of this sugar dance is to understand that insulin is a hormone, not medicine. So you can't think of it as I get a headache, I take an aspirin and it goes away in 30 minutes, every time. Instead either think of a teen age girl or a post menopausal woman. It is a variable process - different on different days, always a surprise, not predictable and certainly not results that can be applied to another other teenage girl or women going through menopause. Throw in Maybe he's having a difficult time with a BM one his tummy is feeling off or he saw a squirrel outside.... We'd like to think we can get our heads around this thing, but it is a moving target. We just do the best we can, on any given day.

There's my pep talk for today, Lucy. The thing that you did for him is not to give up when you got the diagnosis. Instead you are pedaling as fast as you can. Many people have a diabetic cat put to sleep. Anyone who decides to treat him instead is a hero in my book!

 

Thanks, Sue, I do appreciate the pep talk! I could never just give up on Squallie, he's my little love and my constant companion. He never gave up on me. So I'll just keep on dancing, even when the tune and tempo change with no warning, lol!

 

That's the spirit Lucy!!! You are a fighter and so is Squallie. Remind me when I get tired, okay?

 

Here is the BCP PZI link. If your vet faxes in an Rx, you can pay the company directly, rather than having the vet mark it up for resale. You can choose U-40 or U-100 concentration. The U-40 will let you microdose with U-100 syringes and since you're dosing around 1 unit, that may be the best option.

 

I will!

 

Thank you, that will be a big help!

 

Do you have a rough idea of the cost of the BCP PZI? I couldn't find it on the website.

 

Posted 08/10/2015 here

 

Thanks!

 

Okay, I've been monitoring Squallie every two hours today. Based on the numbers for the last few days, should I raise his dose, or is the general consensus still that he's bouncing?

 

I don't think he is bouncing. . How is he acting? I'd up the dose to 1.25 and hold it for a few days and see what he looks like.

 

I agree, I don't think think this is a bounce, either. He's acting fine, maybe a little grouchy because I've been pricking his ears all day. I gave him 1.25 units, or as close as I could estimate, and Now, Ill just keep a watch on him.

Thanks!