Wysong dry and raw diets: struggling with "no dry food"

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Steph, Sep 17, 2013.

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  1. Steph

    Steph Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Hi:

    Mick is starting to get into the other three cats' food: He wants to crunch.

    I have been feeding him some dry Wysong Epigen (90% meat), but I am suspicious that this is causing fluctuations of the high sort in his numbers. When I don't feed him that, his numbers stay in a good range. I received this info from Wysong:

    For all cats, but especially for those that are diabetic, Dr. Wysong feels that moving towards a more archetypal feeding pattern (increased protein and decreased grain carbohydrates) helps to better regulate a cat’s natural carnivorous metabolism, as meat protein is what their bodies were designed to most readily digest. We generally recommend Epigen™ you have, Archetype™ (99+% meat – no grains) or Archetype Buffet™, the Au Jus™ canned diets, or creating your own low carbohydrate meal with our supplement Call of the Wild™ combined with your own fresh meat and vegetables. Other dry diets to consider would be the Nurture™, Nurture with Free Range Pheasant™, or the Uretic™ diet.

    In following the Optimal Health Program™, a supplement to emphasize would be AddLife™, which provides additional nutrients, especially probiotics and enzymes, which further enhance digestion and absorption of food. (You wouldn’t need this if you use Call of the Wild™).

    The Wysong Rx diet for diabetes is called Metabolic™. It is based upon the Archetype™ diet and is dry but can be reconstituted with water. You can order Rx diets directly from Wysong as long as we have a prescription on file from your vet stating the name of the diet, your name, the pet's name and the number of refills. You can fax that information to us at 989-631-9280. To search for other veterinarians in your area that may carry Wysong Rx diets, follow this link: http://www.wysong.net/stores.php.

    +++++++++++++++++++

    I know many of you are totally against dry food, but truth is, trying to keep his wet food dish full all the time is a pretty big job--and he's always hungry, much less than when I got him, but still, I can't sleep in any more at all because he needs wet food first thing in the a.m. I can'at leave it down in my bedroom where I feed him, because the other kids
    sleep there, too. A conundrum, for sure.

    Thoughts? I did try Stella and Chewy's, but honestly, it is too expensive for my budget right now. Thanks for input. I do know about EVO Cat & Kitten, but again, high protein doesn't mean no carbs.
     
  2. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    What about feeding the other cats low carb food, too? Friskies pates are low carb and relatively inexpensive; I can get them at the Columbus, OH WalMart for 0.78 per 13 oz can.
     
  3. RobinCot

    RobinCot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Well BJM beat me to it but I agree - all my cats are on low carb canned food so if my sugars get into their food, no worries. It's just healthier all around.

    Also, I keep a small bottle of water and a spoon by the bowl so when I see it dry up I can quickly remedy it. I was worried about how to keep her food hydrated when I was at work all day. It turns out, she ate it anyway - guess she got hungry enough. So I don't worry about it getting too dry when I am not around because hunger prevails.

    Also, the crunch addiction really can be broken. Raw muscle meat is really the best thing for your cat's teeth. It is how they keep them healthy in the wild. You may want to cut up some raw chicken thigh meat and see if he will eat it. If his teeth are satisfied, he may not miss the crunch so much.
     
  4. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    There is a common misconception that grain free = low carb. Or that the % carbs provided on the manufacturers website is the % calories from carbs as fed .

    Most dry food are simply too high % calories from carbs as fed which makes regulation difficult and remission unlikely. The only foods we have found that are dry and low enough carb (under 10% calories from carbs) are

    Innova Evo Cat & Kitten 8%
    Nature's Variety Raw Instinct chicken 7%
    Young Again zero Carb 0%

    Thats why we recommend wet - there just isnt many choices in dry. And I guess it depends what your goals are for Stubble.

    You say he is hungry though - whats his weight and how much are you feeding him? Maybe he isnt getting enough.

    Wendy
     
  5. Steph

    Steph Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    BJM: The other 3 are all getting the Friskies pate in small amounts, and they are on their own type of dry foods.
    RobinCot: I'm with you. Raw chicken meat? (Argh.) I need to step up to that one, and anything is possible.
    Wendy & Tiggy: Ok, yes, I understand about grain free = low carb, and that it doesn't! And I do know the EVO brand (now owned by P&G so my local non-profit pet food store won't carry!) is a better low-carb choice.

    I THINK that the Wysong is even lower than EVO...per the above description. Young Again is $49.00 per bag??? Yikes.

    I could cook him ground turkey--but he doesn't think it has much flavor based upon a trial.

    Wendy&Tiggy, don't know what he weighs--had him a month and he has put on weight, BUT the biggest problem is that...

    HIS NUMBERS ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE FOR A MONTH. I AM TOTALLY MYSTIFIED AND WORRIED. He gets a bit of the Wysong, and LOVES the EVO as above...Maybe he can't have even a tiny taste of dry at all...Still experimenting.

    All for now...Thank you all, and I'll be back because I'm stumped.
     
  6. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    You might make a very condensed stock and cook the poultry in that for more flavor.

    You might pick up some FortiFlora and sprinkle that on the cooked food, too. The probiotic part won't hurt them and the animal digest it is in seems tasty to many cats.

    Note that plain meat/poutry/fish is not nutritionally complete. Cat Info has a recipe for raw which lists some of the additional nutrients which are added. There are some companies (search the web) which make premixes to add to ground proteins.
     
  7. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Ok for the big problem
    A big part of the issue with his numbers is that you are having to skip and/or give reduced doses due to low preshot numbers. Lantus works best on consistency since its a depot insulin so changing dose or skipping doesnt work well. The best way to keep a cat in normal numbers as they get regulated or into remission is to shoot at low numbers - the mantra is shoot low to stay low. So you need to learn how to shoot low.
    However you arent testing enough to know if you are safe to shoot at these low numbers. That means you need more tests to get data ready. Here is a primer on shooting low: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=147

    So if I were you I would reduce his dose to 1.5 for now and hold it for 3 days and see how it goes because I am wondering if 2 units is now too much. Plus increase the testing.

    I usually recommend 4 tests a day

    - always before the shot - this is mandatory as you don't want to shoot when too low. As a newbie this too low number is 200 but is reduced over time once you have the data to know if its safe.
    - mid cycle - 5-7 hours after morning shot depending on your schedule. This is to see how low he is going. The low point "nadir" is what you base dose changes on since you don't want him dropping too low (under 50).
    - before bed (2-3hours after Pm shot) to get an idea of what his overnight plans are. If this number is less than the pre shot test number you may want to set the alarm for a test a few hours later as this implies an active cycle.

    Wendy
     
  8. Steph

    Steph Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    I only skipped when my Reli On Confirm went haywire and gave me incorrect readings. They were dangerously low and incorrect

    I am back on the track now, at 2 iu, where we've been. I've been very religious about this, truly.

    Just peeked at that document, and can't take it on at this second. I have to gear up for that, and will do shortly.

    Thank you!
     
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