Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin?? Update Latest number

So I was finally able to get a sample!! Yay, for me and Rocky. Anyway, his number was 168. Do I give insulin or not??

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

yay! Ok hold off for 30 minutes and test again. Dont feed and dont shoot yet. Lets see if he is going up or down naturally. If he is going down then we need to be careful. Going to get some experts over here so check back in in 30 minutes please.

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

Uh oh, I did feed him just now. Wasn't expecting that answer.

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

No worries. That might be ok.. remind me, you still havent started him on the insulin yet right?

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

No. I haven't started giving insulin. I've only changed him to Friskies pates and freeze dried treats.

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

Ok then thats really good. He is doing great so far - good numbers !

I posted on the other forum and am hoping the experts get here soon. They may even have you skip to see what happens but lets see what they say.

Wendy

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

There may be a food spike heading your way, although cats vary in this.

Good job changing the food.

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

What does that mean "food spike?" How would I know?

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

Can you do another test for us please? A food spike means that the food is converted into glucose and it raises her BG. The impact on the BG depends on the food and the cat.

I see one of our experienced members online, and hoping she pops over soon. How long can you wait before it gets too late for you to shoot?

thanks
Wendy

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

It's kind of too late now because I want to shoot before 7p and 7a or at least right at. That's the only reason it's too late. I guess I could check BG while husband is home and feed later, but kitty is used to being feed as soon as he's up at 6:30/6:45a. My husband had to help me with him and during the 7a hour, I'm getting kids ready for school.

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

So how do I know when to shoot and when not too. I thought since it was under 200 then it was okay to not give insulin. Now I have to test after he eats also. So much to learn. :?

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

Ok then let's skip it the shot this time, I know you are keen to get started but I would be concerned he would drop too low during the night.

Here is a primer on shooting at low numbers.http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=147 Essentially you need data so you know how your kitty is going to behave. Over time your cat should move into more normal cat numbers (50-130) but won't be ready for no insulin at all yet, so you need to get used to shooting at lower numbers. But you do it gradually.. You reduce your "no shot" number.

However for the first few times we like to have an experienced member "sit" with you if they are low to start, so that if your cat does drop suddenly, they can help you manage it safely.

Can you get another reading in tonite?

Let me know on tonites reading and then we can discuss plans for what to do if he is still lowish tomorrow morning as I would like someone to be around to "sit" with you.

Wendy

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

That like testing will get easier...true when you are just starting out we say don't shoot if under 200. Which is because you don't have a lot of data to tell you how he is going to handle a particular dose of insulin...after awhile you will get to know what his pattern is and when it is safe to 'shoot low to stay low' but that comes with months of testing and knowing what your cat's particular pattern is on a set dose.

I think the only reason they are asking you to test after he has eaten today is to get data...it will tell you if he really spikes high with food or not. One of mine would jump 200 pts immediately after eating, one doesn't move at all, and the one that I have that is still on insulin only goes up slightly...ECID.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

Wendy asked me to pop over but couldn't get here right away...I'm sorry.

I think it's a good thing you skipped.

When did you switch the food...how long has he been on canned and what is the starting dose of lantus your vet recommended? Is your kitty really thin right now? If so, what is his weight. If not, what is his ideal weight?

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

Marje and Gracie - He started on the wet food last Monday 1/28. Vet recommened to start at 2 units. No, he's not thin. He's a little plump. Vet has been wanting him to lose weight even before diagnosis. He weighs 16.5. Should I try to get another reading tonight? Do I need to be switching ears. I tried on his right ear this morning and got blood but didn't get to test it, not enough. I tried left ear tonight and barely noticed a tiny speck. Went back to right ear and a big drop came out. I don't think I hit the vein.

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

Switching ears is really up to you and your kitty. I have one that only one ear bleeds well so he is always tested on his right ear, my other it doesn't matter they both bleed easily so with her I switch ears on especially if I'm running a curve. However neither of them can you tell which ear I just tested so its not going to hurt if you test only on one or switch them up. Whatever is easier for you and him.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

Wendy also asked me to stop by.

With someone so new to giving insulin, you did exactly what we suggest -- ask for help if your pre-shot number is under 200. I think skipping may have been the way to go, as well.

I have a bunch of questions:

• How long has Rocky been eating canned food?
• It looks like your vet suggested 2u as your starting dose. You can use a weight-based formula to calculate the initial dose: initial dose = 0.25 x cat's ideal weight in kilograms. If he weighs 16.5 lbs then, using the formula, his starting dose would be either 1.75u or 2.0u depending on whether you want to round up or down. (see below)
• How was Rocky diagnosed? Did your vet do a fructosamine test, were his blood glucose (BG) numbers sky high?
• Was Rocky on a steroid prior to diagnosis?
• Was he sick prior to diagnosis?
• Does Rocky have a history of ketones/diabetic ketoacidosis?

In response to your question to Marje, I would get another test in about 3 hours. I'd be curious to see if Rocky's numbers go down once his food starts to be digested. Food can stimulate the pancreas to produce insulin naturally.

If Rocky's numbers are in this range, 2.0u may be too much. I'd lean more toward 1.0u. If the vet found that Rocky's numbers were considerably higher when your cat was at the vet's office, what you may have been seeing were numbers that were elevated due to the stress of being at the vet.

Many cats have one ear that bleeds better than the other. I test on Gabby's right ear most of the time.

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

Sienne and Gabby, Rocky has been eating canned food since 1/28.
He was diagnosed just through a blood test, I believe. Vet said his number was in the 550s.
He was not on a steroid.
I took him to vet because he was drinking more, urinating more and then he developed neuropathy in the hind legs.
No history of ketones that I'm aware of.

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

Thanks for the background. The reason I asked about ketones is that it might have been dangerous to skip a shot in a cat that is prone to ketones.

I would suggest you get some test data before giving a shot. If Rocky's numbers are usually below 200, I would be nervous about starting insulin at 2.0u. It's far easier on your nerves if you start at a lower dose and work your way up if you need to.

The neuropathy can be easily treated. Methyl B-12 is a form of vitamin B-12 that is effective in treating diabetic neuropathy. Zobaline is methyl B-12 that has been formulated specifically for diabetic cats. It's completely safe to give.

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

Can food be left out at night to free feed? That's what we were doing with the hard food and since it looks like I'm getting the hang of getting blood, I might get to do an insulin shot soon, so can he eat throughout the night?

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

Yes canned food can be left out over night...just mix a little water into it to keep is moist longer.

It might be the easiest to skip his shot altogether tonight and just start him tomorrow at when you want his regular shot schedule to be, rather than trying to shoot later tonight and then having to roll the shot times back by no more than 30 minutes per day. Plus I usually like to start insulin during the day or early in the evening when I know I can be up and around to monitor for a few hours at the very least.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

She's already decided to skip to be safe.

We have asked for another test three hours after he fed (I think that's soon?) so are waiting to see how that is, then we can plan for what to do tomorrow morning if he is under 200 then too.

Wendy

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

hey there! just wanted to pop in and say CONGRATULATIONS! on testing and what an awesome number too given he hasn't started insulin yet. in all honesty, i'd do some data gathering, like you're doing tonight, and see what he's doing on his own. with numbers like that i don't think there has to be a big rush to start him on insulin, and definitely not at 2 units

did your vet know you were going to hometest? and were they open to it? if so, you might call them tomorrow and tell them what numbers you are getting and see what they say about the dose too.

as far as the food goes, depending on how much help kitty's pancreas is supplying, the glucose level can go up or down. if it goes down after eating, kitty's pancreas is doing some of the work and less insulin is needed, if any at all. if it just goes up and up and up, kitty's pancreas is on vacation and we need to supply kitty with the insulin until their pancreas comes home, if it ever does. :smile: make sense?

so, if you test a couple or three hours after kitty ate, the number will tell you a little bit about whether or not his pancreas is helping or not, thus, helping to decide on what dose to give if insulin is indeed needed

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

Wendy, the cat went and ate some more food that I didn't know was left. Would that matter with testing again? That was 8p, I think.


Lynnlee - I didn't know I was going to test so vet doesn't know. He did mention home testing and said that most people don't do it. So I told him that I wouldn't. After finding this website and other sites, I decided that it wouldn't be wise to shoot without testing.

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

No - it doesnt matter - it was more if you were going to shoot tonite - which you arent.

So please test again at 11pm tonite and post the number. Like Sienne said,

Also I want to discuss tomorrow morning.
- I think the decision was to shoot 1 unit at the most tomorrow, but first can you test at 6am ( one hour before shot time) and post your numbers etc on the lantus board? http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9. That will give the experienced members time to get on and see whats going on and help you decide whether to shoot or not at 7am based on his number.

FYI hold off on feeding at 6am since you will be feeding after his shot at 7am ( if he gets one!)

thanks!
Wendy

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

Will do, Wendy. Can I give a treat or two in the morning or he's just going to meow and meow.

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

Always give him a couple treats, low carb of course, when you test so that he comes to associate testing with a yummy treat. Treats are just about as important as the meter and strips when teaching a cat to like being tested.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Re: Yes! Yes! Do I give insulin??

His number was 264.
Yay, I did it again.

 

Good job. I agree with Sienne that if he continues to be around 200 at preshots, you should start at 1u and we can take him up as he needs it.

I alternate ears even though Gracies right ear bleeds easier.

 

No advice here. Just wanted to say....

Well done! dancing_cat :RAHCAT dancing_cat

 

Could not wait to get up this am and see what happened!
Congrats to you!!! and your baby boy!
GREAT JOB!!!! :thumbup

AND WONDERFUL NUMBER THERE!

:dizcat

 

I just wanted to say Congratulations!!! You did it YaY!!!!

Since it sounds like you're a little rushed in the morning, I would test at your 6:45am or as soon as you can, that way if you're not sure whether to give insulin or not, you can open a new condo for the day, and ask for help. If the BG number is questionable and you need assistance, remember not to feed until you know whether or not you are giving insulin.

 

Morning number is 221. Should I give insulin? How much?

 

One unit.will you be around today to test two hours from now? Please post on the lantus board as I mentioned above to get more eyes on it!

 

I'll give one unit. And yes I can post in about two hours. Maybe 2 and half hours. Thanks. I don't have time to transfer the info over now, but I'll do it after I test him again.
Thank you guys for your help.

 

Ok great! We will be watching on the tr forum. Please put "new member" in your subject line
Thanks!

 

Ok how's he doing? We need to see how low he goes.

 

Wendy - I wasn't home at the two hour mark. More like three. I still tried to take a sample with no luck. My husband has been helping when I've been successful. I almost had one but when I got the blood on the stick, the meter wanted me eject it. I tried a couple more times with not luck. I can definitely try tomorrow at the 2 hour mark. Any other times I should test today besides before dinner?

 

We want to see how low he goes today so how about at the five to seven hour marks? The insulin reaches its maximum action then.

The reason I asked for a test at two hours was I was hoping to see before he dropped in case you needed to control the drop but if you can't get a test can you try again today then? 5-6hours from the shot would be ideal.

 

Yes, I'll try to get it then. I'm trying to send up one of those SS things, but am not finding the post about. I saw it the other day.

 

Look at you go! GREAT JOB!! Here's the link to set up a spreadsheet: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

 

The spreadsheet link is at the bottom of this page https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Rd6sMfsrNB41yQVEqpyjlHrJsDIbGEhbRIWR4QAwu3c/pub

 

Thanks Tara & Buster! I really feel accomplished!! I was so upset on Sunday because each time I failed. I was about ready to give up.
I got it set up. Just need to change the name of it.

 

Good Job :thumbup

 

Good job on the spreadsheet... Now to fill it..

We are taskmasters aren't we? Lol

 

Awesome!