Yikes!! 268!!! Weight control diet ..... it's driving me crazy

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Mara1022, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. Mara1022

    Mara1022 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    It's me, Mara and Ace back again. This time looking for some help with helping Ace and his "aunt" Casino lose some weight. She is just plain obese and he is very overweight. I have his diabetes under control without having to give him insulin but he needs to lose weight. We got a prescription diet food through the vet, it's Hills Digestive/Weight Management. It recommends he should get between 3/4 to 1 cup a day. Since we're also giving them a packet of wet food each day we are giving him 3/4 cup of the dry.

    The problem is that he was "free bowling" before with a different dry food and now we're feeding 3 times a day. Two of the dry and 1 of the wet. But he's constantly nagging me to eat. He'll be climbing up the side of my wheel chair meowing, pawing at my hand and "nipping" my arm non-stop for an hour or more just 3-4 after he's eaten. I don't know what to do. I decided to divide the dry food up to 3 meals so he's getting 4 smaller meals but that doesn't work either. He's relentless. I've read about trying to be strong and how it should only last a week or two but it's been a couple months and he's still crying for food.

    Can someone give me some advice on how to reduce the amount of food he's eating without him feeling like I'm starving him? PLEASE!!!!
     
  2. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Mara,

    It's much more difficult trying to manage a cat's weight when feeding dry food.

    Is the food Hill's w/d? If yes, then certainly the dry version is absolutely crammed with carbohydrates.

    What are Ace's blood glucose levels running at these days?


    Mogs
    .
     
    Mara1022 and Noah & me (GA) like this.
  3. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Teasel's non-diabetic brother was a little too heavy when Teasel was first diagnosed. I switched both Teasel and his brother to low carb wet food only - recommended for diabetics but also very helpful for overweight kitties. Over the course of a year his brother lost a little over 2 lbs with that diet change alone.
     
    Noah & me (GA) and Critter Mom like this.
  4. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    I would look for low-calorie, low-carb wet foods so that they can eat more of the food without having more calories. Dry food is more calorie dense, so they are getting less food for the calories. Also, you mentioned a 'packet' of wet food. If that is a packet of food with gravy, it would also have too many calories and carbs.

    Just for the sake of example, Hill's w/d dry has 280 calories in a cup, but Purely Fancy Feast chicken in broth only has 45 calories per tray. So, they could eat 6 trays of the wet food for less calories than one cup of the dry food.
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  5. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Not diabetes related but when Simon (Noah's brother) who was not street-smart escaped from the house for 5 days he was never the same. He had a complete checkup; worms, parasites, cuts and nicks etc. Something inside him told him every meal could be his last (and was for 5 days). He became morbidly obese, could not groom himself and often got jammed between the staircase stiles. We tried everything but it eventually led to his passing. We didn't know better then so it was all kibble all the time.
    It won't happen quickly but just 5 grams a day for a year = 4 pounds. Even a quarter can of Fancy Feast (85 gram) over 6 months is 8.5 pounds. I know the water content is included in that 85 grams but I hope that gives you some hope.
    Neither Noah or Nigel were even mildly obese when diagnosed. :bighug:
     
  6. Mara1022

    Mara1022 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Hi, Critter Mom. Good to hear from you. Yes, it's Hill's w/d. That's what the vet prescribed for Casino and he said it would be good for Ace as well. The "pouch" food is "Natural Balance Platefulls". It says to feed 2 1/4 pouches per 5 lbs of body weight per day, and it is 70 kcals per pouch. Ace's weight was 15 lbs when we started this feeding regimen. When we weigh him at home now (which isn't really reliable) he is 15.5 lbs. Casino is so VERY overweight I'm scared because she is nearly 14 years old. I'm so totally lost in this.

    I haven't checked Ace's blood glucose for a long time because he hasn't shown any signs of the diabetes for a very long time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  7. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    What's Ace's blood glucose level running at, Mara?


    Mogs
    .
     
  8. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Here's Lisa Pierson DVM's advice for overweight cats (diet, safe weight loss programme):

    catinfo.org - Feline Obesity

    Saoirse put on a good bit of weight after a vet prescribed Royal Canin Urinary s/o dry food for her. She was then switched to the moderate calorie version but still couldn't get her weight back to ideal. Vet then switched her to Royal Canin Obesity Management dry food. Saoirse was on a minuscule amount of this food for ages but still I couldn't get her weight down and she would very often go to an empty bowl. She only started losing weight on that food when she became diabetic and that was when she started pestering me for more food. Indeed, I'd have probably picked up on the FD faster were it not for the fact that she was being fed sod all each day in terms of volume.

    After I switched Saoirse to wet, low carb food and bought a digital baby scale to monitor her weight at home, it was effortless to keep her at her ideal weight and she was properly sated after eating; better on all counts!

    I've got problems with my civvie at the moment weight-wise. Historically Lúnasa has always been at ideal weight but she suffered severe GI disturbances over the last 18 months due to hyperthyroidism and in desperation I had to switch her from a wet to a dry diet for gastrointestinal support (Virbac Gastro formula, about 18% calories from carbs; far from ideal but it was that or starve). Since switching to the Virbac dry she started getting a bit plump around the midriff. I've currently got her on the weight loss daily allowance. She's stopped gaining but now because she ends up with an empty tummy for too long at times she ends up vomiting. I am hoping to transition her back to wet, low carb food again this year but I need to get some labs and scans done first.


    Mogs
    .
     
  9. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Please do check his blood glucose from time to time! He may come out of remission and I know you would want to be on top of that right away. Also, constant hunger can be a sign of active diabetes, so please just give him a quick test.:);):)
     
  10. Mara1022

    Mara1022 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Thanks Critter Mom, great info. And Squalliesmom, I didn't know that was a sign of active diabetes. I will def check. Thanks EVERYONE!! I knew you all would weigh in with some good advice. I'll stay in touch. God bless you all!
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  11. Mara1022

    Mara1022 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    YIKES!!!! BG is 315 4 hours after eating
     
  12. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    That's not good. :(


    Mogs
    .
     
  13. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Did you repeat the test? This is so very different from your other numbers.
     
  14. Mara1022

    Mara1022 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Repeated. 268
     
  15. Mara1022

    Mara1022 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    I don't know what to do now. Ace was fine for so long. Do I take him to the Vet? Do I just start giving him the Vetsulin again? Starting with a low dose like in the beginning? Is the Vetsulin I have from nearly a year ago still safe to use? I've kept it refrigerated.

    I know we have to get him off that dry food (and we just got a new one in 2 days ago). We'll have to start trying different ones to see which one both cats can tolerate (my older cat had problems with the one Ace did best on).

    Please someone give me a clue. Is he in terrible trouble now? I'm so lost. :nailbiting::nailbiting::nailbiting:
     
  16. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I'm so disappointed for you to hear about Ace's BG being higher again, Mara. :(

    Can you feed Ace and Casino separately? That way you could give them foods that agree with each one of them.

    If you do change Ace back to his lower carb food remember to transition him to it slowly over the period of a week or two, gradually changing the proportions of each food, so as to minimise chance of GI upsets. Same goes for Casino if you change her food's too.
    If you used the Vetsulin then after a year it will be no good. If it was never used, you could check the expiration date and if it has not passed it should still be viable. But don't start using any insulin at the moment. I think the wise course of action is to consult with your vet before doing that.

    In the meantime I suggest you do some BG tests every day to see what's happening with Ace's blood sugar and get Ace to see the vet ASAP. Because you've not been testing several times daily it would perhaps be a good plan to ask your vet to run a fructosamine test for Ace as this will give his average BG over the last few weeks. Be sure to tell the vet about Ace's ravenous hunger (polyphagia) and also how long he has been behaving this way. If you can't test urine at home then bring a urine sample with you to the vets so that he can test it for presence of glucose and, very importantly, ketones. (If there's going to be a delay before you can get a vet appointment then don't wait; get some urine ketone test strips yourself and test Ace's pee at home to make sure he hasn't got any ketones (because ketones indicate a medical emergency and you should contact your vet urgently if you get a positive test). More info:

    Are you testing for ketones?

    Tips for urine sample collection

    If it were me in the situation I'd discuss changing Ace back to a diabetic-friendly, low carb wet diet and with the vet and also sort out whether he needs to get back on insulin (and you need to keep testing daily for ketones in the meantime). If you start Ace back on insulin while he's still on the dry food (and that may well be necessary) then you need to let the vet know that his carb load is going to reduce and to take that into account when setting a starting dose of insulin. You'll need to closely monitor Ace's BG daily throughout the transition because his insulin needs will likely reduce as he gets less and less of the w/d Dry food (it's very, very high in carbohydrates). Again, please read the following pages from catinfo.org - especially all the safety tips and warnings.

    Feline Diabetes and how to safely transition a cat receiving insulin onto a lower carb food

    Feline Obesity and how to help a cat lose weight safely


    Mogs
    .
     
    Kris & Teasel likes this.
  17. Mara1022

    Mara1022 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    I can't feed them separately, unfortunately. I haven't figured out a way that would work.
    The good thing is I've been feeding them both the dry and wet for a long time so I only had to drop down on the dry for a few days and that worked great. They are both on just the wet packet "Natural Balance" now. I'd like to introduce another wet food like a FF Classic but when I tried one, Casino's stool got real soft. So I'm not sure.

    The Vet wants me to keep them both on the w/d dry food. smh

    I have so many difficulties going on in my life right now that it's hard for me to concentrate. I keep reading on how to do a "curve" and I've set alarms to remember when to test but Ace has other ideas. Then my Vet called with results of the blood test she sent out and something went wrong so they couldn't read anything related to the red blood cells. But the fructosamine (sp?) level was 896 and she was very concerned. But she talked so fast I couldn't make cohesive notes so I don't remember what else it showed. She did say she wanted to start Ace on insulin again and I told her I'd like to stick to trying to get the BG down with food changes unless she thought it would be dangerous. She said not at this time so I'm staying on my idea for now.

    She mentioned I need to get the meter I'm using "calibrated" but IDK how to do that.:(

    I get so frustrated because everyone keeps talking to me like I understand everything being said but I just get more confused. I need to know what to do in a simple A. B. C. and 1. 2. 3 format so I can make notes and follow instructions. That may be too much to ask of anyone, but if someone could help me that way, I'd appreciate it. :confused:
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  18. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    We’re willing to help in any way possible. How about coming up with a list of things you need to have explained. We can address them one at a time. :)
     
  19. Mara1022

    Mara1022 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    TYSM Kris. How about how do I do a "curve". I know I have to test BG every 2 hours but more specifically, how do I do it from beginning to end...
     

Share This Page