Z and Houdini, new members need advice (blmfld township, mi)

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by HoudinisMom, Jun 11, 2012.

  1. HoudinisMom

    HoudinisMom New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2012
    Hi everyone. I am really in urgent need of advice.

    Since February, Houdini had been having diarrhea and would refuse to poop in his litter box. After this went on for a couple of days, and having seen some mucusy blood in his poop, I took him to the vet. They ran a variety of tests which were all inconclusive. One thousand dollars gone and no lead as to why Houdini was acting this way. The vet did mention that he had high blood glucose levels and suggested I check them out. We had a scare back in 2008 where the vet suspected diabetes and Houdini was prescribed insulin for about two weeks; however, the dosages were terrible and had I not kept a close eye on him, the dosage as per the vet would have killed him. Additionally, the vet tried to get me to buy dry food I think it was Hill's science diet and I read on line that dry food is chock full of carbs..........can I say *scratching my head*. I started him on 9 Lives Super Supper. After a while, his symptoms disappeared and he was off insulin.

    Now, back to recently...I received a blood glucometer in the mail thanks to the donations service on the website. I had the most difficult time obtaining any blood from his ear and gave it a rest for a while as his poor ear was riddled with pricks. Finally, today, we got the first reading of 272. I am freaking out now, and feeling terribly guilty...Houdini has no symptoms of diabetes (no polyuria) but he still has the mucusy bloody poop at times which has forced me to keep trying to figure out why he is having that (with NO THANKS to our vet).

    He seems only slightly lethargic and I feel horrible, that it has been too long for me to try and rule things out and figure out what is wrong with him. Could he have a failing kidneys by now, or have I done serious damage by waiting for my vet to try and figure out what is going on????

    I am going to take more readings later. What is my next step????????????? Should I return to this same vet to get some insulin prescribed? How could this vet not be able to tell me that it was indeed diabetes?? And like I said, I do not see him running to pee too frequently at all, so guys, PLEASE HELP ME. I don't know what to do next...I am reluctant to take him back to the same vet if she did not know what he was suffering from. But if he does need insulin (and I know I am only going off one reading of 272) how do I obtain this at this point?

    Also, I have been feeding him Fresh Pet select, which claims to be all natural. I've been looking for a list of low carb cat foods and can't find it here.

    Please anyone give me suggestions and advice. Houdini is the center of my life and I already feel like I've betrayed him by not being more aggressive at trying to find out why he was having this diarrhea issue.

    Thanks,
    Z
     
  2. knolet

    knolet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Re: Z and Houdini...new members need advice

    Hi - I am too new to give advice. Zeus was diagnosed FD May 1st. But if Houdini is still having bloody/mucusy poop I would get him to a different vet, someone that will try to help you. He may have an infection or something that antibiotics can help with.

    Good luck to you and Houdini. We will keep our fingers and paws crossed that it is nothing serious.

    Kathie
     
  3. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Z and Houdini...new members need advice

    I remember you. I am sorry Houdini's issues haven't been resolved. Did you check out the diarrhea link you were given on your previous post?

    272 is a diabetic number if it is at home, but not by much. (We figure numbers can be highly inflated at the vet because of stress so a 272 at the vet would not be alarming. ) We consider a cat in normal ranges between 40-120 off insulin with the majority of the time spent in double digits. 200 is considered a no shoot number for new diabetics until you have enough data to know how much insulin would be safe.

    I think I would get some numbers at home, after eating, before eating, in the middle of the day and see how he ranges. In the meantime, I think I would be looking for a new vet. A cat should not have on going diarrhea; just as with humans, it is not good for the body. He won't be able to keep in the nutrients from the food. You might add your city and state to your subject line and see if we have a member nearby who knows a good FD vet. (Just go back up to your first post on this thread and edit the subject line.)
     
  4. HoudinisMom

    HoudinisMom New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2012
    Re: Z and Houdini...new members need advice

    Thanks Kathy, Zeus and Smokey. And Sue: I checked his blood at home yesterday at around 4 PM so he had substantial food in his belly from grazing. I checked it this morning after he had had no food for about six hours and it was 242. I changed his litter box yesterday evening at around 8PM and not even any urine in it. I am so confused....so can he be diabetic without polyuria? I thought that was the telltale sign as his body would be trying to get rid of the glucose by flushing it into the urine. I am looking to change vets, someone has recmmended Banfield to me; however, that is quite a drive and Houdini HATES car rides! I will edit the subject line. Thanks so much.

    -Z and Hou
     
  5. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Z and Houdin, new members need advice (blmfld township,

    Z, would suggest you buy either KetoDiastix or just Diastix at a pharmacy. The Keto ones test the urine for ketones and glucose and the Diastix test the urine for glucose. Need to find out if he is spilling glucose in his urine. Also, are you anywhere near Union Lake, MI? Union Lake Veterinary is excellent, most female vets also. I use Dr. Herdon, Dr. Hawker and for my diabetics I go to O.V.R.S. because of all their special problems with the 3 of them. For an ER you cannot beat O.V.R.S.
     
  6. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Z and Houdin, new members need advice (blmfld township,

    242 is a diabetic number. But it's true, most diabetic cats do urinate an unusual amount. I think a second opinion might give you some answers.
     
  7. sophie

    sophie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    Re: Z and Houdin, new members need advice (blmfld township,

    Hello,
    tough on the little fellow and you, of course. Are you adding plenty of water to Houdini's food? With diarrhea lasting this long, could he be badly dehydrated? I would take him to a new vet as soon as possible - some vets are simply incompetent. For now, would let him eat as much as he wants. Have you tried Fancy Feast Classic (pate style)? Make sure it says "classic" on the can as those have fewer carbohydrates. Stay away from beef and fish flavors as some cats have issues with those. Try chicken or turkey flavors.

    I'll second the Keto-Diastix reagent strips (cost about $20 for 100 strips, if I remember correctly) for urineanalysis available in any pharmacy - just stick under his urine stream or collect urine in any long handled ladle. Stick the strip in and 15 seconds (ketones) and 30 seconds (glucose) later read against the color codes on the bottle. Test must be read within one hour of taking the urine sample.

    Best wishes and hugs for both of you, Sophie
     
  8. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Z and Houdin, new members need advice (blmfld township,

    Z, should have mentioned this....get a good stool sample and take to a good vet and ask them to run a stool culture. You want to rule out giardia, coccidia, and all other nasty stuff. Just having a tech look at the sample won't do it. You want a culture done on the stool.
     
  9. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Re: Z and Houdin, new members need advice (blmfld township,

    Diarrhea with bloody mucus will dehydrate a cat (or a human, for that matter!).

    Causes of that can include parasites, infection, food allergies, inflammatory bowel disease, or intestinal cancer.

    There are blood tests for food allergies. You can test a food with a novel protein source (ie one the cat has not ever eaten) such as duck and pea (I think someone makes an over the counter canned version). An alternative is to make a list of what is in the foods you are feeding and systematically avoid 1 element at a time for a minimum of a week then reintroduce it to see if symptoms worsen. Grains set off some cats; beef sets off others, and so on. Its a trial and error process.

    Inflammatory bowel disease may be diagnosed with a biopsy done under anesthesia. If the cat is otherwise doing well AND you trust the vet practice, you may with to do this. An empirical approach (a trial to see if it works), is giving a medication such as metronidazole for a week or so to see if the condition improves. Metronidazole tastes awful. If you can, get the tablets, cut them in quarters, and put them in pill pockets so you don't have to fight a cat h*ll bent on refusing that liquid gunk you want to give him.

    Intestinal cancer also may be diagnosed with a biopsy.
     
  10. HoudinisMom

    HoudinisMom New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2012
    Re: Z and Houdini, new members need advice (blmfld township,

    Hi BJM: I have tried very hard not to feed Houdini any grains ever since the last scare back in 2008. I do give him Whisker Lickin treats but other than that, he has been on a pretty uniform diet that alleviated his high glucose levels from 4 years ago.

    From reading on line, I also suspected IBD, Houdini was on metronidazole for a week or so but we also put him on this special food the vet recommended for cats with diarrhea so I am not sure if his condition got better due to the antibiotics or the food switch. His diarrhea is not chronic, per se, but rather, sporadic and every other week, so this has been a frustrating ride.

    His stool was cleared for parasites.

    Hope and baby GA: I went to Banfield today and took in a stool sample. I do not know whether they looked at it, all I do know is that I was charged $3.20 for medical waste disposal (LOL, wow...) I am taking Houdini back in on Thursday as I did not have the $400. they required to run blood tests today. I will ask them about his stool. I'm not near Union Lake, but I was recommended Banfield by this girl I know and they seemed a lot more competent. They had the previous vet fax over the blood work etc.

    Sophie: I have not added water to his food, he does drink his water and yet he does not seem to be peeing that much. But I will start to add some water to his food. I got him FF white meat supreme something or other (found it on Janet and Binky's page) and the Target I went to did not have many FF classics but I shall look elsewhere. In terms of the ketostix, Houdini stops his poop or peeing if I as much as look at him going! And there really isn't enough urine in his box for me to siphon any off...so I am not sure how to get any urine for this.

    So as of now, I need some help from my parents so that I can go in and get further tests for pancreas, kinneys, liver etc. Wish I could have done it all today but did not expect it to cost me $400. I just hope I can find out what is wrong with my furbaby.
     
  11. hmjohnston

    hmjohnston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2011
    Re: Z and Houdini, new members need advice (blmfld township,

    Some people change the litter to aquarium gravel- and then get it right after the cat leaves the box. That might be a quick solution.
     
  12. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Re: Z and Houdini, new members need advice (blmfld township,

    IBD can have intermittent symptoms, so it isn't ruled out.

    If you can make 1 intervention at a time and chart your observations, it will be helpful in identifying what changes had what effect. There is a list of secondary monitoring tools in my signature link; you may find some of those ideas helpful in addition to glucose monitoring.

    If you believe that IBD is likely, treating with something like metronidazole may be helpful, as long as you can give it consistently. Maybe suggest that at the next vet visit?
     

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