Zack is newly diagnosed with diabetes

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by hyolles, May 7, 2014.

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  1. hyolles

    hyolles Member

    May 4, 2014
    Hello there.

    Our cat Zack (eldest furkid) was losing weight. He is 15 and started out at 14 lbs. We thought he had Kidney disease.
    We even had made an appointment to see a local vet, when he nibbled on a poisonous plant and ended up being treated by our equine vet. She diagnosed him with Diabetes after reporting a BG level of 599 on Saturday May 3rd. She treated the poison, and wanted us to wait on the diabetes until we met with the new small animal vet. We were to give one more dose of activated charcoal and sub-q fluids every 6 hours until he passed the charcoal in his stool.

    When I posted on FaceBook Saturday night, MaryAlice told me about this Web Page and Message Board. Just messaging with someone I knew was a great comfort. She encouraged me to join the web page and the FaceBook. I did both. And am so grateful to everyone who messaged me, particularly Chris R.

    Our first trip to the vet (Monday 5/5) was less than I expected. I learned more on your site and from communicating with Chris and MaryAlice and everyone who messaged me.

    The vet took Zack's BG (389) and urine and recommended Lantus 1.5 units. She told me to be sure to watch to see if he was drinking before I gave him his shot. If he is not drinking, do not give him the shot. And to make sure he ate before I gave him his shot, helped me give him his 1st shot and sent me home. I was to bring him back for them to get the curve the next day.

    I learned about Hypo from MaryAlice, and started reading more on your website.

    Tuesday Zack's BG was 407. The vet gave him 2 units of insulin at her office for the morning shot. His +6 was 157. She wanted us to give him 2 units every 12 hours.
    We tested his blood that evening before dinner= 385, +4 BG= 336.

    Wednesday 6 a.m. BG=437, 1.5 unit Lantus. 6 p.m. BG = 468, 1.5 unit Lantus.

    And here we are.

    Should I be posting BG status on the Lantus Control Posts site?

    Thank you again Chris and MaryAlice.
  2. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    May 10, 2013
    Welcome to the FDMB Holly and extra sweet Zack!!

    Happy to see you made it over here..especially with the way the message board has been working tonight!

    Just some quick background for everyone else..she's transitioning onto low carb wet, and has started to home test, so she's making good progress! She's using Lantus

    Holly, the one thing I meant to say on Facebook I forgot to...I have NO idea why your vet is concerned that Zack is drinking before giving insulin. Cats have a low thirst drive to begin with, although one of the main symptoms of diabetes is excessive drinking (and peeing). Usually, once they're under better control, they don't drink near as much water as they did earlier. It's not necessary that you catch Zack drinking before shooting. We generally test/feed/shoot all in about 5-10 minutes. Always test first (and no food for the 2 hours prior to Pre-shot tests)....After you get the pre-test done, you can go ahead and feed and shoot. I think most of us feed and then shoot, just to kind of make sure our cats are eating normally before shooting. It IS important that they eat when they're getting insulin! As soon as I see China is eating normally, I shoot her while she's got her head stuck in the food bowl

    You've got 3 cycles now at 1.5 but a total of 5 shots toward "filling the depot", so it's important now for you to just hold the 1.5 dose and get as many tests in as you can. Don't forget to keep your spreadsheet updated too! I noticed you didn't put the +4 of 305 into tonight's PM cycle on your spreadsheet. Usually as soon as I'm done testing, I immediately go and put the number on my spreadsheet, or if I can't get to the computer immediately, I'll write it down and do it as soon as possible.

    Congratulations on taking the time to educate yourself and we'll all be here to help you along the ride!
  3. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Oct 6, 2010
    Welcome to FDMB.

    Good insulin? Check.
    Moving towards low carb diet? Check.
    Home testing? Check.
    Understanding the numbers? Here's some info!

    [Glucose reference ranges are unsubstantiated and have been removed by Moderator]

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *​
    Examples of using the chart:

    Ex. You are a new insulin user and you test your cat before giving insulin. The test is 300. It probably is safe to give insulin.

    Ex. You are an established user of Lantus, following the Tight Regulation protocol. You've tested around +5 to +7 to spot the nadir. It is 200 mg/dL. You probably need to increase the dose, following the instructions for the protocol.

    Ex. Your cat is acting funny. The eyes are a bit dilated. You are concerned and test the glucose. The number is 35 mg/dL. ACK! The cat may be in a hypoglycemic state. You quickly follow the HYPO protocol linked in the glucose reference values chart. (which we really, really, suggest you print out and post on your refrigerator.)
  4. houghtam

    houghtam Member

    Jul 27, 2013
    Good morning everybody! I suggested to Holly that she post here first, and then go ahead and start posting her numbers on the tight regulation for Lantus. You guys were so helpful to me, I figured it was a good place for her to start since she's using Lantus. Chris, I agree with you I thought the whole water thing was odd myself. But I thought maybe I'd missed something during my education on here.
  5. Shelly & Jersey

    Shelly & Jersey Well-Known Member

    Feb 1, 2014
    Hi Holly,

    Welcome to FDMB! I'm so glad that Mary Alice and Chris directed you to the site. Although I haven't had the pleasure of "meeting" Mary Alice, Chris has been of great help to me. That's super scary on the poisonous plant. :eek: I'll bet Zack didn't like those charcoal treatments at all!

    I'm so sorry that Zack has diabetes, but you are in the best place for help. The people here helped my kitty, Jersey, go into remission after 2 months. It's definitely a difficult dance, but I have no doubt that they will help you get Zack regulated. Just don't hesitate to ask questions when you have them. I have never had a question that someone here didn't know the answer to. These people are simply amazing!


    P.S. I have never heard of the "no shot if not drinking rule" either. In fact, since I switched all of my cats to canned food, I don't ever see any of them drinking out of the water bowl.
  6. hyolles

    hyolles Member

    May 4, 2014
    Zacks numbers remain in the 300s today. Should we be doing something different?
  7. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    May 10, 2013
    Hi Holly!

    No, you're doing fine! We totally understand that you want to see better numbers though! We all do! But there's just no rushing it. You'll hear this a lot, but it's really true..This is a marathon, it's not a sprint

    Some of this you've already heard, but I'll repeat it..sometimes it's hard to understand. Lantus is a depot insulin. When you first start, you have to "fill the depot". It's kind of like this...some of each shot goes to work during that cycle, but the rest of it goes "into the depot"....Once the depot is full, as you continue to shoot, not only do you get the effect of part of each shot, but the depot kicks in to add to you get the full effect of each dose. Right now, you're still filling the depot, so Zack isn't getting the "benefit" of the full 1.5 unit dose. (for lack of a better way to explain it)

    Keep doing what you're doing...Only low carb food (including treats) and test as often as you can. Make sure there's no "contraband" he can get into. If he continues in the 300's past tomorrow morning's cycle, we can consider going up, but we only go up in .25 unit increments, so the next dose increase would be 1.75.

    Since you've got your spreadsheet up and already know a lot of the basics, come on over to the Lantus Tight Regulation Forum to post from now on. You'll get the benefit of everyone there's experience using Lantus.

    Each day, we post a new post (we call them condo's) You put the date, name and the AMPS result in the Subject Line..and as you get more tests during that day, you "edit" the original subject line to add them. So today, yours would look like this:
    5/8 Zack AMPS 478,+5 326,+7 326

    In the body of the post, you give the WCR (Whole Cat Report)...How Zack is feeling...How's his appetite? What about the 5 P's? (Peeing, pooping, preening, playing, purring?)
    Any questions you have should go in the body of your condo too. If your condo includes a question, in that first post you should use the ? icon (above the subject line). You have to put it into the first post or it won't be seen when people just scan the topics on the forum. Once you have your question answered, you can remove it.

    You should also put the link to the prior day's condo into the new one so people can quickly go back a day or two to see what's been going on. To do that you just "copy" the address in the address bar, click the URL tab and "paste" it. It would look like this: Your link here[url] Look forward ...ome to the best place you never wanted to be!
  8. houghtam

    houghtam Member

    Jul 27, 2013
    Chris - I just saw Holly's PMPS number. Just a thought - is it possible she did a fur shot this morning and that is why it's so high? I haven't mentioned anything to her about fur shots, she probably needs to know what to do just in case.
  9. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    May 10, 2013
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