Discussion in 'Caninsulin / Vetsulin and N / NPH' started by Meridith and Zeke, Jun 25, 2017.
You could try it for a few days. You're testing enough to see the effect.
Ok, will give that a go then.
If he acts the same as he did last night when his #'s get low, I will at least know what to watch for. He was clingy, yet not, almost anxious like for the hour leading up to his +4 test. We already know that he spends more time under the baker's rack or my daughters bed hiding when his numbers are on the higher end.
You can try it and see how he does. He definitely being dramatic. The other option might be to give him some MC instead of low carb food at night but his tummy issues have to be first priority. Is there any slightly higher carb foods he will/can eat?
Well, what I gave him was fancy feist, so it might be more of a MC then HC. it is basically double the carbs of his pate. And the only thing with trying to give him something different is that he feels that he MUST take bites out of everyone else's bowls and refuses to eat now if we try to put him in a room by himself lol. He will sit at the door and cus and cry lol. (one of these days I will get his cursing recorded, it is hilarious lol)
Oh I can so relate to the problems of multi cat households. I have one who has to check out everyone else's bowl but also gives up his food to my sugar girl if she approaches him while he is eating. Funny thing is that she used to give her food up to him but not anymore. And then there is my senior guy who seems to get distracted by any movement from the other two so I end up chasing him around with his bowl to get him to eat! He's a bit senile now and I think he forgets what he was doing! Putting them into separate rooms would be doomsday for my doors not to mention the mournful cries! I'd love to hear the vocals if you do get a recording! Food can be one the hardest parts of dealing with the diabetes.
It is amazing how Zeke can tell when we have the blasted camera out! The moment I turn it on, silence! lol
He will normally eat a good half can at meal time, but to get him to do that, I have to mix in Tuna. Otherwise after he has checked out the other bowls, he will get onto the nearest cabinet to me and stare at me til I pull the tuna out of the fridge lol. Good thing about tuna though, all I have to do now is do the zipper on the test kit and he comes running! He knows he gets that bite of tuna right after.
Sounds like Zeke has you trained very well!
While my boys are usually fairly co-operative with the camera, Menace routinely turns her head or walks off when I pull it out. Difficult enough to get good shots of black cats but she makes it darn near impossible!
Just chiming in for this bit. This is something that I have done with my boy
Linda, my GA boy did the same when I got the camera out. Turned his head away so I have a lot of pictures of him sleeping lol. Maury usually puts up with it and is probably thinking "you need more pictures of me?"
If the little lower dose doesn't work will try doing the MC in the evenings.
Zeke lets us take all the pics we want of him, he just doesn't like his sounds being recorded lol. His normal meow is a silent meow. When he is being demanding, the meow turns into a husky/smoky sounding meow lol. When he is mad, it is like he is truly trying to talk and you can tell he ain't happy lol.
Woo-hoo! 2 pretty greens in a row holding steady. We might be finally getting somewhere, knock on wood! Lol
@MrWorfMen's Mom @Yong
Extremely high PS this morning. Did 2 because of how high. First was 540, second was 493. I am going to be watching him like a hawk so I can get a ketone test next time he uses the litter box. Anything else I need or should be doing? Is this a bounce because of how well his numbers were yesterday?
Sounds like a good plan, Meridith. He's probably bouncing from those lovely greens yesterday
Just wish he wouldn't bounce so high.
I'm thinking it might be time to go ahead and raise his evening dose to 2.75 now. Kept it at the 2.5 because his extremely low #'s several days ago.
Just got a ketone test and all good there. I will get a +2 and see how well he is dropping. He did eat breakfast very well.
I think it's just a bounce. Those greens are right where you want him to go and you don't want to aim for anything lower. If Zeke is bouncing, even if you aren't sure but think it might be a bounce, don't raise the dose right away. Doing so can set off more bouncing because a bounce is essentially an artificial rise in BG rather his "normal" BG. He's actually doing very well even with that black spot on the SS!
If I adjusted any dose, would be the evening dose since his morning dose seems to better for him right now. For now though I will be holding at these doses til we are completely out of bouncing and staying steady.
We are getting blacks and I'm getting very concerned. And the blacks tend to follow when he gets the better numbers prior to PS so I don't know what to do. It is almost like he is always bouncing or something. Soon as he starts to seem like he is doing good, it goes crazy again on numbers. What do yall suggest? I know the 8 hour cycle will be a pain, but between my daughter and I, there can easily be someone up all the time with him, I run my own business from home and she is home schooled. What would I need to do so we can do the 8 hour cycle? I know it is probably time for a change of insulin but it is going to be at least another month before I can think about being able to afford a different one.
@Yong @MrWorfMen's Mom @Kris & Teasel
Your guy is a bouncer for sure and is reacting to the recent blues. As hard as it is, force yourself to look chiefly at the lows a dose can give. Those are far more important indicators. The highs are disturbing to see but aren't harmful in the short term and might be related to the fast onset of Novolin. A bounce can happen in reaction to a fast drop as well as an actual low BG. I think it's too early to think about TID dosing and all that entails. If you can hang in for another month you might try a different insulin instead.
So is there really no way to control any of this bouncing with the way he does? I will be on litter box watch this morning so I can do a ketone test cause I can tell he isn't feeling his normal this morning. He normally comes running when I pull out the tuna container and he didn't this morning, and he seems down. He did at least eat his normal amount of food for breakfast.
Bouncing is very hard to control as I know so well. My guy is an Olympic level bouncer. He's a little better on Lantus than he was on ProZinc but he's still quite dramatic. What helps me to cope is accepting that it's part of what Teasel does and I can't really prevent it.
At least my daughter comes back today so we can get some better testing through the night instead of just the first few hours.
Kris is great to get advice for a bouncy kitty, she would know! I like her idea of holding off on TID and waiting to think about switching to Lantus in a month. There was a post on Supply Closet for 5 Lantus pens for $80 plus S&H from Alan. Apparently the box is a little scratched up but the pens are 100% fine. It's a great deal!
Do you know if you have to have a prescription normally for Lantus? Or is it like the Novolin, no prescription required at all.
Finally got a ketone test and all good there.
Looked through the Supply Closet threat and sent Alan a message on the box he has for $80. Since it looks like he usually keeps some for sale on that board, wouldn't have to worry about a prescription then. How would I go about doing a switch from Novolin to Lantus?
Glad to see Kris and Yong were around yesterday to give you some support. Zeke definitely is a bouncer but for the most part, he's looking pretty good despite those periodic, short lived black numbers. The problem is he's dropping a lot early in the cycle and sometimes doesn't reach his lowest point until later in the cycle. He's probably going lower at night than you are aware of and that is leading to those black readings.
TID dosing can help in some cases where kitty is burning through the insulin in less than 12 hours. Zeke appears to be getting reasonably good 12 hour coverage so I don't think Zeke fits that scenario and 8 hour dosing likely wouldn't change much other than being a PIA.
Lantus would smooth out the drops and hopefully decrease the bouncing. The dosing would be the same (Novolin to Lantus is 1:1) except that with Lantus you keep the dosing consistent for each 12 hour cycle.....no sliding scale dosing based on pre-shots. The expected peak of action is a bit later in the cycle so key testing times would shift a bit but you do enough testing and Zeke seems to peak a bit later sometimes anyway so any changes for you will be minimal.
Lantus does require a prescription, so while there is often some Lantus available in the Supply Closet, it would be a good idea to get your vet on board should you need a script to order from Canada at any point in the future.
Ok, I am working with Alan now on getting him a pmt so we can get Lantus started soon and we'll before we need more I will make sure to get with my vet for a script just in case need to order through a pharmacy.
He hit black again this morning and his tests through the night didn't show him getting that low. I'm going to drop his dose down a notch, maybe it is the case of too much appearing as not enough. Too many black numbers starting to happen too often now.
Interesting that he didn't drop lower last night but that doesn't rule out the bounce theory. I like your plan. Those blacks numbers do make us feel badly but they aren't lasting long so don't fret. Hopefully switching Zeke over to Lantus will smooth him out. You are doing great Meredith and Zeke's a lucky kitty to have such an attentive and dedicated Mom!
I'm ready to have him feeling better. I knew he was going to test high again because of how he was acting. Those high numbers have him feeling really bad.
I think a lot of the feeling "off" occurs because of the swings in BG. My girl is funny because she seems to be more active and boisterous when she's in the mid to high 100's than she does when she is lower. Makes me wonder sometimes if some kitties are like some humans who feel better running a bit over so called normal numbers. The problem is that we never have a normal baseline for our unique kitties so all we can do is use the standard norms to judge regulation. That is why observing their behaviour and demeanour is so important and using that along with the numbers to make decisions about dosing and insulin.
I will be happy for now if we can just keep the extra high numbers away. I hate when he is feeling bad. He literally has hummingbirds flying about 2 feet from his head right now and not paying them a bit of attention. But at least in another hour or so after it's been a bit since his shot, he will start feeling better. He actually zipped around with the gremlin yesterday after he got to feeling better lol.
AHHHH! Poor Zeke! The lack of activity/interest following the shot for a few hours is not unusual. Even with the depot insulins (Lantus/Levemir) I find there is a nap following the shot but I'm also pretty sure that hummingbirds flying nearby would override any need for a nap! With the faster acting insulins, it's not unusual for folks to comment on their cat seeming more tired and not themselves.
Yeah, my gremlin was getting frustrated because Zeke was stretched out on the window sill and he couldn't get closer to the hummers. Zeke is getting a little confused though, my nutritionist has me testing myself since I told her I have been borderline several times. So when I pull out my kit, he is thinking it is time for his test lol. I got a feeling that by the time I am done with this next 4 weeks that I will be chasing him down again lol. Maybe I will need to give him a nibble of tuna even when I do mine so he will keep coming when he hears the test kits lol.
This is just like Teasel, Linda. I've wondered about the same thing and have to force myself to focus on clinical signs more than I focus on numbers.
Maybe you should sync your testing!
Only the morning one can be synced, the rest all depend on when I eat lol. She's got me testing myself 5 times a day. Can sync a couple possibly but not all of them lol.
We have Lantus ordered so hopefully by the end of this coming week we will be starting it.
Hope Lantus helps Zeke feel better, Meridith! I said the reason to try switching for us was I wanted my boy to feel better too so if Lantus was the way, I'd give it a try
The more I read on it, the better it sounds like it will be. We are going for the TR method since someone is usually always home for testing when ever needed etc. This morning he tested between negative and trace on ketones, so glad I dropped his dose down. We actually didn't have a black this morning and I can tell he was feeling better. I will test ketones again tonight or in the morning and add extra fluids to him through the day. He loves the tuna juice lol.
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