1/28 Cody weekly update

1) Well I think we figured out the miralax, 1/4 t mixed into his 5.5 ounces of food, with 1/4 c water. His tummy feels so much softer and he's been regular for a few days. No enemas for awhile. If I get nothing else out of this forum, that was a wonderful find Thank you ! Megacolon has been a very frustrating problem.

2) Increasing his food to a whole can 2x/day and then splitting it into 2 larger meals at shot time and 2 big snacks about 4-5 hrs later, has really helped with the "desperate kitty" show, although he still stalks the drooler's food, the sinks, and counters. It's just not as bad. People talk about free feeding on PZI and I don't really see how I could do that, he would eat everything until he threw up. I thought I saw a slight BG drop or hold steady after eating the afternoon snack. Could it be mr P? He usually gets the snack after +4-6, depending on my schedule.

3) He hasn't seemed as dehydrated lately, which is a strange thing. I've been doing fluids, 150 ml LRS qd for a long time, and lately I've cut back to about half that. All I can think is that he's spilling less sugar.

4) as for his BG. I've been trying to get a variety of readings, and test pretty often, but he sure does seem unusually fond of yellow. I bought a new vial of Prozinc today and I was thinking of starting it tomorrow, even though the 1st one isn't empty. I dropped the first one twice and ....? My vet wants me to hold the dose when I switch to the new bottle. I would really appreciate a few of you studying his past 2 weeks. I felt like he was doing better last week. I try not to bug folks everyday, but I could use some advice.

5) I've had 2 lobby discussions with my vet about the acro test, I think I'm going to push a bit more. She promised me she would call MSU. DO you think I could wait another week and keep working on the dose. I know Cody's case isn't clear cut, but he sure doesn't respond to insulin like some of these guys.

6) stopped by LL tonight for the first time, which is what encouraged me to ask for help. There were ~55 (FIFTY FIVE!) posts of kitty updates, for 1/28, who keeps up with that?

I would like to also post a link to this in PZI - I think I know how, but if I don't figure it out could somebody here do it please?

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU :smile:

Hey Nancy,

Got your message over in PZI Land.

I'm completely unqualified to answer your dosing advice questions since you are high dose. Are you working with U-100 syringes yet?

BUT, I'll tackle the others.

You may not be able to free feed but there are timed feeders out there that may help you feed smaller portions more often. Cats are very habitual [at least all our Maine Coons are ultra habitual]. And I've found that once you break their "bad" habits they to stick with the "better" habits you have encouraged.

Search this board or the old one for "timed feeder" or post just about anywhere on this board and I'm sure you will get a ton of input. Yours is not the only half pig-half cat hybrid here [do you watch South Park?? "Man-Bear-Pig" LOL]

Ideally you would like to find a way to make his food input as even throughout the cycle as "humanly" possible.

As for #3, 150ml qd should keep him very hydrated! What do you mean by "He hasn't seemed as dehydrated lately?"

As for #4, I don't know about ProZinc [I've not dropped my bottle yet], but the old PZI Vet was VERY hardy insulin. I dropped that shizzle several times and left it out of the fridge a couple times and it worked great down to the last [10+ months later!!] !! Amazing shizzle it is fo' rizzle! Try that with Lantus... NOT. :mrgreen:

As for #5, ya the vets. Ultimately you have to make you own decisions about them. It's your cat and your $$. Just make sure that any test you send off to a University goes FedEx or UPS OVERNIGHT!!! Starting on a MONDAY [sample taken on Monday and sent that same day]!! On a frozen gel pack!!! NEVER EVER send to a University via USPS. Pay the extra money to your vet. I give our vets my FedEx account # and have them charge it to that account. If you want more info on the reasons to my madness please ask.

As for #6, no kidding. Yet another reason to heart PZI Land. :YMHUG:

Thanks! I'll work on the feeding thing some more. I just don't want to create a monster that thinks if he begs that Ill feed him anytime. Maybe the machine would be good, takes me out of the equation....hummmm. More stuff for the "hospital" I mean laundry room. :lol:

On #3 I pull the fur up on the back of his scruff and if they are hydrated it pops back down right away. On Cody you could pull a flap up and it just stays there, standing straight up. Lately his skin settles back down in a few seconds. Because he has heart issues, I have decided to be safe and cut way back until I show the vet. Iv'e increased the water in his food and maybe this is finally catching up, and maybe his numbers are better and he's approaching the renal threshold and he's not losing as much water in pee.

Anyway thanks

Good grief you stay up late! @-)

The old skin on the neck trick eh? That's kind of creepy the way you describe it. The color of the gums are another way I've been told to assess the hydration issue.

Have you had a urinalysis done? Maybe the urine specific gravity can illuminate the hydration issue?

Good morning Nancy!

#1: Yay!!!!!!!!!! Miralax was a godsend for my Gabi(GA). With it she was able to go without vomiting from the strain.

#2: The timed feeder may make life wonderful. Try it!

#3: You're also adding water to his food. And the lower bgs do help. Yay for this, too!

#4: I'd up his dose to 6u bid. Any thoughts about dosing tid? It's wonderful that he's staying in the 200's for highs, but the whole thing can come down some more. The 5.5u is holding him at least. And can I ask (again I believe) why the dose is being held so long? Is that what your vet wants? If so, then do what makes you comfortable. If it were me, I'd be increasing by 0.25-0.5u every 3 days or so, but you need to do what you and your vet are comfortable with.

#5: Your vet talking with MSU is good. They can explain everything to her: how to handle & ship the sample, when the best time to do it is, etc. Waiting a week or so won't make a difference. Again, do what is most comfortable to you.

#6: Yes, LL is a busy place! Lots of kitties use Lantus and do really, really well on it.


dancing_cat

I agree with Carolynn with upping the dose to 6u. His numbers have a lot of room for improvement at nadir and you've been holding the 5.5u for quite some time now. Of course, do what you're comfortable with but that might help bring him down some more. If you're home on the weekend to monitor, might be a good time to try it out.

Thank you

I just want everyone to know I'm not at all nervous about shooting more. 6u is half what he was on. My thinking is/ was this, and feel free to tell me if you think differently- thats what I 'm asking for- other opinions (i'm not that sensitive)

Cody has been diabetic for 2 1/2 - 3 years and on insulin for 2.5. Most of that time, (at least the last year that I remember) his BG ranged around 270-450. If i had to pick a number, his average was probably 300. Now I feel like he's reset what he thinks is normal, and his liver is not comfortable letting him get below 200. I am trying to spend some time letting him get comfortable with low yellows so I can keep pushing him down. He seemed to cooperate at 5u, getting gradually lower numbers, but when I went to 5.5u he started bouncing low and higher. I want to move to 6 and I will tomorrow, but I started a new vial today and I just wanted a previous dose to compare apples to apples. I felt like the first bottle may have been damaged when dropped..just wanted to see.

Anybody have experience getting a very chronic diabetic back down to happier numbers? Would you still proceed .5 every 3 days? Maybe I do need to shock his system a bit more. ( FYI you wouldn't know it but he has an enlarged heart, and takes BP and platelet thinner meds.)

I'm going to try to check hourly today to really see what is happening, so please come back tomorrow with opinions! I'm open for ideas.

I am home pretty much all the time with a flexible schedule ( :lol: Gator! and I'm a night owl, but that will stop next week- my DH will be home from a 3 week trip to Hong Kong and he actually goes to bed before midnight- imagine that!)

I really do want ideas so fire away....

Nancy and Cody said:

Thank you

... Now I feel like he's reset what he thinks is normal, and his liver is not comfortable letting him get below 200. I am trying to spend some time letting him get comfortable with low yellows so I can keep pushing him down. He seemed to cooperate at 5u, getting gradually lower numbers, but when I went to 5.5u he started bouncing low and higher. I want to move to 6 and I will tomorrow, but I started a new vial today and I just wanted a previous dose to compare apples to apples. I felt like the first bottle may have been damaged when dropped..just wanted to see.

Anybody have experience getting a very chronic diabetic back down to happier numbers? Would you still proceed .5 every 3 days? Maybe I do need to shock his system a bit more. ( FYI you wouldn't know it but he has an enlarged heart, and takes BP and platelet thinner meds.)....

Click to expand...

Don't know if this helps but when Spook was introduced to a new dose, she would sometimes rebound too since she was used to the higher numbers for so long. I did shoot aggressively however, almost forcing her system to realize that the lower numbers were much better for her. In effect, I did increase the dose every 3-4 days, when I saw the numbers were good, I'd stick to the dose longer til she started getting higher again.

Yup. Fletcher did the same thing and I did what Suzie did.

Nancy and Cody said:

Maybe I do need to shock his system a bit more.

Click to expand...

I understand what you are talking about in terms of them getting used to high numbers. I know I'm not the only one familiar with PZI that has found similar and that when you do cross that dosing threshold where they become sensitive [to the dose] that very small changes in the dose can produce big results. This makes being able to give small consistent dosing changes [and using U-100 syringes] very helpful with PZI. The "shocking" bit sounds maybe kind of like what Terri calls a "bam" dose. You can search this board's PZI or the old boards PZI Land for "bam" - or I encourage you to post in PZI Land [something like "bam details needed"]. I'm not saying that a "bam" dose is what you should do [or not do] at this point but it would be at least something interesting for you to learn of.

I don't know about high dose but the usual for PZI is to increase in 0.1U or 0.2U increments every 3-8 cycles. Since you are at a dose that is Cody is sensitive to I would be tempted to progress in 0.1U increments maybe every couple days?

Getting and keeping kitties regulated is sometimes like trying to balance an elephant on a pinhead.

Hi Gator!

We've found with most higher dose kitties that increases of 0.5- 1.0 units are more effective. BUT.. once we near in on a dose that gives really good results, we may be able to do smaller (0.25U) increases. Many kitties that need the higher doses wouldn't even recognize a 0.1u difference. :lol:

We still need to zero in on a better dose before we worry about fine-tuning things (at least in my opinion), but we also are all still learning just what this Prozinc can do!

Carolynn,

Thanks for the info. Yea, I had a feeling I was out of my depth.

Had an interesting development today- I started the long awaited new vial today, and I noticed this AM that it was not cloudy like the first vial, but totally settled out. It mixed easily, but the first vial was always cloudy, it never had clear liquid at the top. I seem to remember reading that it is suppose to be cloudy. So I called ProZinc at the end of the day, explained what I saw and that it was the first day I opened it, that I home test a lot, and that his numbers today were disappointing. Guess what? They are sending my vet a new vial to replace it!

I told them that I keep a thermometer in the fridge next to the insulin, that I have a little box taped to a shelf so it doesn't get bumped around, that I had been exceptionally careful with it because it was brand new, and I even told them that I had dropped the first vial. They said that dropping it doesn't seem to damage the crystals, and even temp changes aren't that terrible, but that LIGHT does damage the crystals. I suggested that maybe it had gotten frozen during transit to the vet. any way, thought I would share these tidbits from "the horses mouth"

So tonight, we went back to the old vial. It has to last until Tuesday probably, so I skimped on 6 units. I never knew that light damaged insulin so easily and there have been many mornings when I placed a filled needle on the window ledge for a time, or held it up to a bright spotlight to check for bubbles- wow, who knew? :shock: confused_cat

I went out and bought the only auto feeder my closest pet store had. It was $30 and it is a Pet-Safe brand. I just hope it's Cody-Safe! He'll be sure to drop test it off the counter, so I guess it's going on the floor. I hope it's also drooler proof, although Marley, I mean Tucker, stays in his "cave" when were gone. My animals...... :roll:

Insulin and beer [with hops] hate light [especially light with UV - sun, florescent]. This is why beer comes in brown bottles. Not sure why they don't put insulin in brown bottles. I know H's bottle of Cerenia is brown.

Beer! love my beer drinking24

So since yesterday:
-ordered a maxima meter - inexpensive strips (and hopefully not off 100 points)
-bought a 2 meal timed feeder. I see most people seem to use the 5 meal one, but I'm home, and think this will be good for us. I may need to buy 2 if I actually EVER go away again, so that the boys have their own halves of the house. There is no way Tenderfoot would have a chance to eat if they weren't separated.
-spoke to the vet about drawing blood on Monday and giving her our Fed ex #, for the acro test,
-printed out the IAA test info, so I'll have to spring that on her Monday- (I tried to ask about it on the phone and I don't think she had any idea what I was talking about)
- had the clinic test the other 2 vials of Prozinc they received this week and found out that all 3 are separating, so my old vial needs to last.
-went up to 6u, +6= 90 point drop which is good, but the starting point was terrible, so were back at 220.

see, your help is not falling on deaf ears
Thanks everybody!

Well that sucks about the insulin, but glad they're replacing it.

And yes, the higher AM PS could definitely be because it was later (+13). A 90 point drop isn't bad and shouldn't freak his little body out too much (hopefully!). Can't wait to see what the next few days bring.

Hi Nancy!

I see runny nose on your SS.. 500mg L-lysine crushed in food SID should help you with that... absolutely excellent for URI's and you can find that in any drug store. I see you have a little "new dose wonkiness" going on, looking forward to seeing him settle into that new dose soon! Remember, as soon as you see him START to flatten, bump it again, it will keep the numbers from getting in front of you.

Sure you can wait on the acro test, but I would keep reminding your vet about it LOL

(((hugs))) good to see you again!

I'm gonna try to get an appt to get his blood drawn tomorrow, and give them my hubbys fed ex #, and get her to order the IAA as well. It's not really going to change my treatment because he's 14 and has issues, but it will be interesting.

Timed feeder is set to go off at 12 & 4, AM and PM; and I feed and shoot at 8. Cody is very funny trying to get into the feeder early, so far he's been out of luck ---CODY PROOF! (I shouldn't talk to soon) :lol: :roll:

Dont think I'm going to make it until Tuesday on the old vial, so Monday PM will be screwed up again- oh well. I don't think its totally bad.

Acro /IAA Test- Well, we did it... now we wait. thanks to any who suggested giving my FedEx number. She only charged me for the blood draw, so far.

My hubby returned from a 3 week trip to China/HK, and he thinks I'm addicted to the FDMB :lol: :lol:
so I'm sure you won't see me lurking around here so much... but I'll still sneak a peak.

Any suggestions for a cat who PEES all around my house. For 10+ years he never did, and now its like he thinks anywhere is his litter box. Thank God for the enzyme stuff.... I need Patti's very cool Taz Mahal (in a heated version). I'm ready to shoot him. :-x