new pzi user Bemmer

Hello hello
I was on the main health forum when i first started with Bemmer's diabetes which was about two weeks ago, but he is on prozinc and I figured I'd come here to introduce myself since he's doing really well . Currently he's been able to have his dose lowered from 1 unit to .5 units 2x a day in the last week because he had a couple of days where he had low numbers, and so far he's been doing really well on the .5 (its only been like three days :lol: ) but his numbers are becoming about the same they were when he was on the 1 unit so i don't know if maybe he'll be able to lower his dose even more or what but I'm really surprised at how good he's doing and hopefully it can stay like this :razz: :razz:
but here's the link to the original post:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=105190
just in case if anyone wanted to know anything but so yea, ill just keep updating the spreadsheet :mrgreen:

 

Welcome Carly and Bremmer - glad you found your way over here. (I post on both forums.) Be sure to check out other's posts and spreadsheets. It's great when beans encourage each other in this sugar dance.

 

BTW Carly, this forum is much smaller and less busy than Health - usually people post in the am and pm EST. If you ever need help immediately, post on Health where there are more eyes.

 

Hi Carly and Bemmer! I lurk quite a bit around here, because my cat Cassie is an odd one. He reacts differently than most cats, so I don't give a lot of advice. But, we're glad you found the PZI forum and we'll try to help where we can.

 

Welcome Carley & Bemmer.

Going Low and Slow. That's the way to do it.

Me & Rumpeazer (RumpelT) will follow you along on the famous 'sugardance'.

Ask any questions you have in mind. We are here to help you. :smile:

 

She has posted over in Health...would one of you Pro Zinc users please check there?

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=105190

 

I did.

 

Hahaha sorry idk which one to post on woops I guess I should start posting on this one since it relates more
And hello everyone :mrgreen: thanks for welcoming

 

It is easier to post on one forum so people can keep track of you. I did reply on Health too.

While it's true that you base the dose on the preshot number, you also consider that midcycle number. If he had been 60 this cycle at .6 and then 370s at preshot, we would have known he bounced and we would have held the dose. If he had been 200 at midcycle and 370s at preshot, then a little insulin would be wise. As soon as you have a couple weeks of data, you'll be able to look back over the doses and resulting numbers and predict what may happen with what dose.

 

Ugfggg yea
I really need to get midcycles but it's been hard since I have no computer and have been having to go to my sisters to do school because I actually do it online but once my computers fixed it'll be good because for the most part I'll be here during the day to watch him soo yea but until then I'm struggling to keep him on schedule lol :roll:

 

Hi Carly and Bemmer
Welcome to PZI! Bubbles and I have been here about 6 weeks and have received great support and advice, and have had great luck. What seemed so difficult 6 weeks ago, has become routine, and so much easier...and I have my cat back. She's 15 and feisty, and with everyone's help we are now almost OTJ! I hope things are going well for you and Bemmer...and I hope you see Bemmer looking better everyday! :smile:

 

No problem, Carly. We can't fix this overnight. You do the best you can and we'll help all we can.

 

Around 3 and 1/2+ he's at 155
Happy to say I'm gonna go to sleep right now

 

Looks like he could have gotten into single digits by +6, Carly, but I am guessing not into that 40 range.. A 50% drop at +3 is a pretty steep drop. Good data to have. Looks like one unit may be a smidgen high and he may bounce again.

 

Alright so we know 1 unit is too high but .5 may be too low so amps was 198 with the near 1 unit from last night and im POSITIVE it was not one full unit even though I'm eyeballing I know that for a fact bc it didnt hit the mark so it looked like anywhere from .8-.99 bc it was reallyyy close to one full unit and it wasn't near the half mark
I know this is ridiculous, I really need the other syringes
But so this morning I didn't give him one unit but it looked like .7-.9 so I will check him in a couple hours since last night he dropped fast :roll:
But I mean if that works, until I get the other syringes, I have a really good idea of where I stopped the insulin in the syringe so, it's not like I'm doing completely blind shots here lol even though it probably won't be an exact amount every time, it's not going to be far off at all

 

You could try having a sample syringe. With colored water, find the spot where you think is between .5 and one. Start with one unit and dribble out water until it looks right. Mark with a permanent marker or tape. Then, when you are ready to dose, put in one unit and dribble out, comparing to the sample syringe.

Do you know if you need a prescription to get syringes in your state? If not, you can pick up some U100s (very common). Just make sure they have .5 unit markings (little less common). Then you'll need the conversion chart.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm

The 198 is close to 200 and a good number. I do wonder about what .6 looked like... If you have the weekend off and can closely monitor, you can be a little more agressive with the dose. If he starts dipping, you use food to bring him back up.

 

I live in Florida so I'm pretty sure I don't need a prescription but if I do they sell them on the american diabetes wholesale website for like $20.00 .... ?
I'll call around and get them on Friday if there's no prescription

 

You should be able to get them at WalMart pharmacy's. Just get 3/10 cc, half-unit marked, 5/16" needle, 30 or 31 gauge Relion syringes OR 3/10cc, 30 or 31 gauge, 5/16th" needle (with half unit marks) BD Ultra fine syringes

They're about $13 for a box of 100, and you have to ask for them since they're behind the counter. Make sure you check that they have the half unit markings. We've heard a lot of stories where pharmacists gave the wrong syringes or said they didn't have them with 1/2 unit markings....unless they're just a really strange WalMart, they should have them

 

I’m a little late to the party but I just wanted to drop in and say hi & welcome!! :mrgreen: As Misty mentioned, just remember to start low & go slow! My sugarkitty Mittens was diagnosed at the end of August & was initially on 3u (prescribed by the vet). First night I gave him insulin he hypo’d on me…needless to say we got a crash course in home testing!
Don’t get discouraged if you aren’t seeing the results you want right away…I’m almost 2 months into this surgardance and just now (finally) I’m starting to figure out Mittens’ pattern. Now only if his liver would cooperate :lol: .

 

Alrighty I'll check there Friday and if not I'll try target or walgreens
+5 was 210
cat(2)_steam

And hello hello ) lololol yea it hasn't been that bad since its only been like 2 weeks and we're already lowering the dose just the last few days we've been trying to figure that out since his 1 unit was making him really low and I'm waiting to get different syringes soo measuring the .xx won't be as hard because I'm stuck with u-40's now :roll:

 

283 at pmps
I'm gonna see if I can get the syringes tomorrow because I don't like guessing these shots

 

+3 from amps was 196
Got the syringes) should I start on like .8 units?

 

Seems like a reasonable place to start.

Don't forget to use the conversion chart though!

http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm

 

Can you get any number closer to +6 today to help us decide? If you give .8 tonight, can you monitor around midcycle?

 

Sorry I wasn't really here yesterday so I honestly didn't get any tests but the 3+ one so I'm just basically gonna "start over" today
Amps was 234 with a .4 insulin shot last night (!!!!!!)
I upped it to .6 this morning because he was incredibly hungry and it made me nervous bc his pee is a lot bigger again
I will try to do a midcycle but I may be only able to get a +4 bc I have to go to my sisters house :/
OMGGGG and thanks for the conversion chart bc I lpoked at those syringes and was like ????? the measurements were so small and I was like ohhh hahaha convert! :lol:

 

How's Bemmer doing? The numbers you have gotten on the15th and 16th are confusing. The higher dose on the pink pmps (10/15) could have been too much. You got a nice amps on the 16th though. The yellow midcycle might have been an inverse curve (indicating too much insulin) but there just aren't enough other numbers to be sure.

I hope you can do a curve someday soon ( tests every 2-3 hours during a cycle) on the little higher dose so we can see what is really happening.

We posted at the same time :mrgreen: Nice amps this am. Anything under 250 for a new diabetic is good!

 

I know lol I'm really sorry I'm gonna try today to get the +6 today and then the pmps and then I'll get like a +3 or +4 later tonight so hopefully that will help just a little

 

You may find it helpful to take a piece of light cardboard, line it up with the syringe marks, make tick marks on the cardboard, then fill in what the U-40 dose at each tick mark would be.
Line it up with a syringe when filling to verify dose.

 

+7 190
he ate the rest of his food 1.5 hrs before that, which was like half of what i gave him this morning so that may have been why he was so high?
:roll:

 

Hard to tell. If you think of this process as collecting data so you can look back over a few cycles and see patterns and trends, it will be easier not to get too unhappy or happy with any given number. For example, Lyndsey's Mittens takes two cycles of higher flatter numbers after a low number; then he gets back on track. Some cats bounce right back from a low number after one higher preshot. It's that ECID thing (Every cat is different)

 

pmps 251
gave .6 insulin shot and I'll update again in a couple hrs

 

Fell asleep and didn't get midcycle but amps was 291 and he wouldn't leave me alone for food so I tried .8 and I'm definitely getting a midcycle today; the lower units are making him wicked hungry and his pees are big again

 

I think the .8 is a good idea. There didn't seem to be anything to bounce from. He doesn't need to come down a whole lot. Today's nadir should be interesting.

Regulated cats are generally in the mid 200s at preshot and 100s and below at nadir, but not below 40. Once he gets into that range, you can fine tune.

 

Have been away on vacation but wanted to say hi and welcome you to the PZI board. Best of luck to you and Bemmer!

 

+6 was 151
Pmps 425
Gave him the .8 again
Maybe he needs to have a couple cycles of it until he gets used to it ?
I'll get another around +4 or 5 and I will be up this time because I'm going to see a movie later ;-)
And hello thank you

 

Nice nadir. Higher pmps. I would definitely give the new dose a few cycles. No chance of contraband affecting that pmps?

 

Like food wise?
I don't think so sinceleptalept majority of the day and even though I leave it out his food he doesn't touch it unless I warm it up in the microwave and mix it so he smells it and even then sometimes he won't eat it; for being such a stray-like cat he's picky :roll:
So I'm like 100% positive there was no food beforehand since his plate was almost full from this morning, besides what he ate then
He's a butt :lol:

 

Please check his urine for ketones - see my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for tips - and smell his breath for a sweet or nail polish remover smell. I am concerned about the apparent lack of hunger.

Ketones form as a by-product of fat breakdown for calories. Too many ketones may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis, a potentially fatl, expensive to treat complication of diabetes. Sometimes, you may smell them on the breath, but not always.

 

no no no that's not what I meant I need to be more specific sorry
I didnt mean that he won't touch the food because he's not hungry. no way... he still wants to eat like a horse, it's nowhere near as bad as when he wasn't on insulin, but he's still hungry and he DOES want to eat throughout the day it's just that I give both of them a full can in the morning, they eat and some days he'll eat more than others, but he eats and then he'll come back to the kitchen within 2-4 hrs and sit there and act as if there isn't food on his plate- when there is some leftover from this morning -since he wants a fresh can because he's picky! (and the fresh smell of cat food from the can is probably better to him than the food sitting on the plate) :lol: but what I was talking about was that when he does that, I take his food, put a little water in it, mix it up, microwave for like 6 seconds to give it some smell, and then I put it down and he will eat it then, but he won't touch it if I don't do that because like I said, he doesn't want the leftover food he wants fresh food but I'm pretty positive it's because he can't really smell the leftover food vs. the smell of the fresh cat food so he won't eat it later unless I do all that... But after that he honestly doesn't really ever bother me for more food anymore like how he used to all day. he is definitely still a hungry cat but I noticed that on the smaller units he seems way more hungry like how he was before the insulin, so that's why I upped it to .8

But so okay remember how I said on the other message that i started to take his blood onto my finger and test from there because he flips out when I try to hold things near his face, so I can't get the meter to his ear unless he's relaxed? So I wanted to make sure again that my finger didn't somehow change the numbers,
which is what I checked for last time, and for the people who don't know, last time I checked on my finger and then 10 min later I got him to relax and lay on me and checked again on his ear and it was a 1 point lower difference so I was like sweetness. So just now I did a +4

on my finger in the kitchen(he follows me in there thinking I'm gonna feed him so he may have een excited= 137
on his ear with 1 minute difference and a partial fight with him because I wanted to get the tests near the same time so I had to be quick and he wouldn't stay still= 174

so obviously i was like crap no the meters faulty or my cleaned finger sucks or i seriously just stressed him out so I
retested him again 10 minutes later and this time he was purring away on the floor with me because I got him to lay down on my leg and I was giving scratches so this test was wicked easy because he didn't even move and I got it from his ear and it dropped down to 119...
stress or crappy meter or test strips or crappy finger ?
I don't know now but I just wonder if half of my numbers have even been correct and there's so many factors that I kind of just feel sad because those are pretty decent sized point sizes and like what the heck UGH :YMSIGH:

 

Hey Carly!!

Remember, meters have a 20% variance so your test numbers come to this

137--between 110 and 165
174--between 139 and 209

119--between 95 and 143

I'd say you're looking mostly at meter variance and you're doing fine!!

If you don't stress out, Bemmer won't be as stressed either...remember to breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out

Just for future reference, if you're concerned about your meter or your strips, poke yourself and test your own blood sugar. That's a quick, easy way to make sure your meter and strips are ok

 

I'm with Chris and meter variance. Also, I don't know about testing on the skin side of your finger. I do know the fingernail would not have any contaminants or temperature variance - not sure if those would impact things. Try your fingernail instead?

In general, the yellows and blues are looking good - in regulated range.

 

Well super, so Im putting 137 down
Amps 356
Unfortunately I have no fingernail because I have a serious habit of picking them nailbite_smile :lol:

Are the midcycle tests more important than the amps/pmps because even though his outer numbers are higher the .8 has made him drop more than half by like 4-5 hours, even .6 did but his pees were huge. I'm nervous about switching his doses because his pee got small again switching from .6-->.8 but he's really hungry by the time I feed him at night and esp. In the morning since he now started clawing at my face and back in the morning, which he used to do before insulin so do they get used to a diff. dose or do you have to change it until you find a match? The outer numbers are high but the 1.00 unit made him go too low so like I don't know :roll:

 

How much do you feed and how often? Since new diabetics were literally starving when unregulated, they may get used to that feeling of never being full. You might feed smaller meals more often (automatic feeders are great for this) Other people have been successful freezing the food and putting it out to thaw so the cat slowly nibbles on it. This might not work with Bemmer since he seems pretty picky about the temperature of his meals. (I have to admit I like being able to warm up leftovers :mrgreen: so why shouldn't cats? Some cats like warm water added to the food so it makes a kind of gravy; this stretches the same amount of food out.

Both preshot and midcycle are important. Looking at the last two cycles, he dropped about 50% at nadir and was still in safe blues. That is almost perfect. Yellow preshots are in regulated range. So now you decide how aggressive you want and can be, with your schedule and the need for monitoring. Maybe give it a few more cycles and see if both preshot and nadirs lower, realizing he is already in safe and regulated ranges. Maybe, on a date when you can monitor at +3 and +6, go back up to one unit again. (The same dose can do something different a few weeks later or it can do the same thing it did before. It's an experiment to figure out which pattern Bemmer follows.) Being more agressive with the dosing is a double edged sword. It brings the possibility of OTJ closer. It also means he could go lower than you had planned and you need to be around to bring the number up with food.

This is the part of the sugar dance that makes people nervous. You hold the syringe; you make the choices.

 

+6.5 was 133; again he dropped about 1/2 from this morning so I will keep him at .8 for like 3-4 more days and if they don't drop more on am/pmps I'll try .9
I feed him a can in the morning and a can at night (5.5 oz) and like I said he'll be hungry at around midcycle and I'll warm up his food after I test, he'll eat and then eat later at night when it's shot time, so near 2 cans a day; seems like enough since I can't feel his ribs anymore

 

updated SS
SUPER hungry and preshot numbers aren't safe; eats like the whole can of food right in the morning cat(2)_steam
amps 447
trying .9

 

Looks okay, Carly. Wish we knew if he dropped low last night and if this is a bounce....

 

i know sorry
i wasn't here today either since i had to go over my sister's house but i got his +4 which was 221 and just now his pmps was 376
ill try .9 again tonight and tomorrow and ill get a test in 4 hours

 

Sounds good. i know your life is complicated and you are doing the best you can. It is just hard to give advice if we don't have a full picture - I never want to hurt someone else's cat.

 

haha I know, I have to get more tests usually this wouldn't be that complicated since I she able to be home for school but having to drive my mom to work and go to my sisters house messes it up. Just gotta wait for my computer :roll:
Well last night pmps was 376, +4.5 was 174, today amps was 376 and +5.5 was 232
:-| I don't what's going on with his numbers

 

I'd give him another cycle to settle in and if you don't see an improvement, raise by .25. It's about his body using the insulin efficiently and it can take awhile - 2 steps forward, one step back.

 

Carly,

You are doing a great job considering all of the 'hoopla' that is going on in your life right now.

Keep posting and asking questions. I watch PZI posts to see if I can offer any help, but I have a goofy work schedule and many times I am sleeping when people are posting. :roll:

Keep your ss updated whenever you can. It will really help you determine doses when you look back and see "what-did-what". Thanks to the awesome members here and Rumpelteazer's ss, I can now make good decisions on dosing without too much help....but it takes the 'data' to do this. :smile:

I printed RumpelT's ss and took it to her "new" vet. Vet was totally amazed at how much detail/information it contained.....she never saw anything like it.

Keep up the good work. cat_pet_icon

 

154 at pmps ???!!?!?!?!? Shoot or not?
Just rechecked to make sure and got 172 so no shoot for .9 tonight?
Maybe his food really spikes because I was home all day and havent given him any more food, until after this when I'm supposed to .... Can food spike him 100-200 points? Maybe he's been high during midcycle because of food?

Hahahaha thanks and now i have a lovely earache thats making me want to punch walls but Im still trying :lol:

 

I'm not a Pro Zinc user, but I can tell you to go to the FIRST post here and put the 911 on there...that's the only way they show up quickly for people scanning the forums. I'll see who I can find to help too

 

I would not shoot so low. Can you get another test or two later on just to see where his numbers are headed?

 

We don't recommend shooting below 200 until you have LOTS of data; you can wait 20-30 min and shoot late if he rises (generally without food).

Yes, food can have a substantial impact. When di you usually feed, in relation to shots & midcycle?

 

Like in 30 minutes or a couple hours?
Should I wait on feeding him too(if it's 30 minutes)?

Woops we posted at same time
Usually i feed in morning and night before shot which is when I test and then midcycle shot is usually at +4-6 and he doesn't eat what's left on his plate until afterwards because I put in another post that even though there's food on his plate, he waits for me to warm it up and I have for the last 1 week 1/2 have tried to make sure I warm up food for him after midcycle test, so actually his food has nothing to do with high numbers so nevermind on that one :-|

 

Wait 30 min without food, then retest. If he's close to 200, give a reduced dose. Otherwise, post & we'll figure something out.

 

Now that you have some help, you can go ahead and take down the 911 Carly

We try to only leave that up during emergencies and we all kind of make a promise that if we have told you we'd watch for you, we don't leave until you're either comfortable with whatever is going on, or we've found someone else to help you if we do have to go offline

You have 2 people now to advise you that know the "ins and outs" of Pro Zinc, so I'll leave you to their excellent care...and good luck with Bemmer!!

 

50 minutes and 182

Thanks Chris )

 

That's without food, right?

 

Yupp, Near 12 hrs :roll:

 

I think, if you can monitor, I would drop the dose a smidge. It looks like he might be one of those kitties that take a while to settle into a dose. And he may have dropped low and bounced, causing the higher pmps.

And feed that poor boy!

 

Sounds like Sue has a plan.

 

Gave .7; thanks guys !!
Ill check in a couple hours
Funny , he didn't even eat all the food, whatta butt :lol:

 

Think to start a new thread, Carly. - any time you go to 2 pages. Looked at your ss. Little worried about today's dose. You gave .9 At a preshot 140 points higher yesterday and he went down to blues at preshot. Your preshot today was in a nice range. If he drops the same as yesterday, you could be looking at a lower number midcycle. Hope you can check on him.

 

alrighty new thread up tonight woo
+6.5 was 200... only dropped 37 points and i fed him so i'm gonna test him in like an hour or two so i can see how his food affects him because i want to know
TESTING IS GETTING SO EASY !!!!! party_cat

 

YAY on the testing !!! We were all in 'spaz-mode' at the beginning of our kitty's sugardance....but "it DID get EASIER". flip_cat

A good way to post is to do a new one every day with SUBJECT: BEMMER 'date' AMPS= 'number'. That way everyone can see what is happening on each day....we refer to them as a "Condo" (Condition Report). You can see how I do Rumpelteazer's...I start a new one every morning....might give you an idea. :smile: