I am a newbie with cat with diabetes

My Maine Coon cat was just diagnosed with diabetes. My vet told me I do not need to check his levels every day that after a few times sticking him he will fight me. I have been giving him his shots twice a day with no problems He goes back in a month to check his levels. His glu level now is 432, alt is 258, phos is 3.0, t4 is 0.8 and chol is 274 do not know what all this means. Thanks for any suggestions

 

Welcome! I'm glad you found us! I've found quite the opposite of what your vet said to be true. I check charlie's bg levels at least twice a day (before every shot), and usually more than that. In the beginning he resisted and it was tricky to get the hang of. But it's easy now for all of us. He know he's gonna get a tasty (low carb) treat after the test. He'll do anything for food! What are you feeding your kitty? He should be on low-carb wet food (<10% carbs). Binky's list has the carb counts for all the major brands. You can check his sugar at home with an inexpensive human meter (many of us use the relion meter from walmart. Strips cost $20 for 50.). There's no need to pay a vet lots of money to do for you what you can do at home. Plus, stress raises glucose levels, so the numbers the vet gets will almost certainly be higher than the numbers he normally has at home. How my much insulin is he getting at each shot? I'm sure others will be along with more advice and questions for you, but this will get us started! Ask lots of questions, we're here to help you!!

 

Home testing seems tricky, but after a few days, it's nothing. Some cats sleep through it. Sam is usually more bugged that I've woken him up than anything else. And honestly, if not for home testing, I wouldn't have caught him going into hypo. In my opinion, the two best things you can do for your diabetic cat are feed canned low carb food and home test. Vets for the most part don't seem to be super on board with the home testing and a lot of them still think the prescription foods are the best. You'll find most people here do really well feeding Fancy Feast or Friskies.

This board is great for help, don't be afraid to ask questions and don't beat yourself up over the steep learning curve. You can do this! Because, hey, if someone like me who faints at the sight of blood can, anyone can.

 

The amount of insulin I am giving is .01 the first line at the top. I have 3 other cats eating out of the same bowl and they eat out of it during the day. They eat Purina indoor which the main ingredient is corn. My vet said since there are so many cats it would be better to give him shots otherwise he was going to try a diet change. I think he wanted him back in a month to see if it dose should be increased. I give Fluffy wet food in the morning after his shot and the main ingredient is chicken and not corn. What do you think. The food is Friskies I am open for any diet that I can give him and if will not hurt the other cats they can eat it too. They are 6 months, 2 years, and 2 years. Thank you

 

None of your cats will be hurt by eating a low carb diet. Consult Janet and Binky's food list (see under Health Links, then the Nutrition and Diet Links post) and get them all on canned low carb food. No dry. Corn is a carb and not something a cat would eat out in the wild, which is how I like to think about the food we feed. (Not that any of my cats would ever take down a cow, but they do get beef sometimes, lol.)

When you say .01 - what syringes are you using? Are they U40 syringes? For Prozinc insulin?

 

A wet food diet is generally best for all kitties. A feral cat won't ever eat corn, wheat, or other veggies and grain. Sometimes they'll eat greens like grass for roughage, but that's about it for the non-meat foods. So the wet food would best mimic the natural diet that cats eat. The corn/wheat/grains are carbohydrates (sugar) and that'll definitely affect the blood glucose of any cat, and especially a cat with diabetes. Some cats glucose levels decrease over night once their food is switched over to all wet, low carb. Some require no insulin at all after the diet change. But it's pretty important to be home testing his glucose levels at home before implementing a food switch because of that. You wouldn't want to miss a possible low number that is too low to shoot insulin into (for newbies the no-shoot number is generally 200). Friskies classic pates are all good foods, as are the fancy feast classics, and the pate-style 9-lives. All the foods are listed on that binky's list that I mentioned. I think there is a link to it in the "sticky" near the top of the pzi support group page.

Did you mean that kitty gets 1 unit of insulin twice a day? There isn't a line for .1 unit.

By the way, what's your kitty's name? And yours?

 

Welcome! Glad you found us. Lots of experienced, nice folks here that can help you.

First advice is........ BREATHE :smile:
There's a steep learning curve at the beginning but it does get much easier relatively quickly.

I, and just about everyone else here, find that our kitties don't mind getting lanced. Home testing is very important as you are able to see what his blood glucose (BG) levels are between shots and if it is going too low. Bud went into hypo, and without home testing, I would not have known and would not have treated her. It is also important to get a BG before you dose him so you'll know if the amount of insulin is appropriate for the BG. If you're having no problems injecting him, he's probably not going to mind the testing much.

A lot of folks here use the ReliOn meter and strips from WalMart. They are the least expensive strips around. A lot of vets that do go for home testing do not like the ReliOn (or any other human meter, for that matter) as they sell a meter made specifically for cats (strips are significantly more expensive). I had Bud into the vet this week and my meter read 365, her's 354. The lab that did the blood work got 333 on the same sample.

Low carb food is essential for managing FD. All your cats will benefit from the LC diet. I have 2 cats, one is not diabetic and used to throw up most of the time on a dry, sensitive stomach food they both ate. In the month they've both been on the LC wet, she no longer throws up and both cats coats are very smooth and shiney now.
These 9 lives canned have 4% carbs or less in a 5.5 oz can if you want to get started right away:
Chicken & Beef Dinner, Flaked Tuna in Sauce, Ground Chicken & Seafood Dinner,
Ground Chicken & Tuna Dinner,Ground Chicken Dinner.
Make sure the lables are exact. Do go look at the food list when you get a chance.

Also, there are emergency instructions for treating hypoglycemia (where BG goes too low). Please print that out, read, get the supplies on the list, and keep it somewhere handy.

BREATHE... it gets easier.

 

The food I am feeding Fluffy is Whiskas in the morning and dry food set out all day for him and the other cats. The needle is u-40 1/2 mi The amount I give him is the second line from the top. The first line is at the very top and the second line is the one I use. I give him 2 injections a day. Any advice is appreciated.

 

My name is Rose and my cats name is Fluffy I would like to put his picture on this site but not sure how.

 

Sorry 2 more questions The insulin and needles cost me 125.00 Is this the normal price or can I buy it on line? Also I am use to feed my cats dry all day, how much should they get if they eat wet? Sami weights 11 lbs, Taz 10 lbs Fluffy 11 lbs and Miss kitty 6 lbs :?:

 

On my old u-40 syringes, the 2nd line is 2 units. Not sure if yours are the same, but it is likely that they are. Is that the amount you started with? Usually it is recommended that you "start low and go slow". Most people like to start at 1u bid (twice a day). My vet started Charlie in 2u once a day, but after doing my own research I dropped back to 1u bid on my own. 2 units is way too much insulin for many kitties (see "eerby" or kristenp&sam, those are just the 2 most recent ones that popped in my head. Some kitties need a lot more, too (like my Charlie).

On to the wet food, the cans have general guidelines for feeding, but a lot of cats could never eat that much. Charlie eats 2 1/2 cans (5.5 oz each) of 9-lives each day. He's big (14#), and lives to eat, though. He'd eat all my food if I didn't have baby locks on my cupboards. Literally. :lol: but my little darla (9#), would never come close to that amount of food!

 

Rose...

I just put more food out when they are hungry, but I'm home all day. I put 3/4 can out at a time for the 2 of them.

If they don't eat it, I'll put some water with it... they love the 'juice'. I also put some out at night with water in case Bud might go hypo. Cats will often automatically eat when their BG goes low.

 

Just wanted to say if you want to see the difference in 2 units dosing vs. tapering down, just look at Sam's SS (link in signature). We've just started tapering down, but it's definitely making a difference. He was on 1/4 today and is having a really good day!

 

The advice the ladies have been giving you is spot on. I agree with everything. Feed wet lo carb to everyone = healthier all cats. Check out this website by Dr. Lisa Pierson: http://www.catinfo.org

A question to ask is if you took your child to the doctor, found out he was diabetic and the doctor told you to go home and give insulin twice a day and bring him back in a month - would that make sense and seem safe? We treat our 4 legged children just like our 2 legged ones. We test before every shot to make sure it is safe to give insulin and we test during the cycle to see how the insulin is working. Dr. Lisa describes giving your cat insulin without testing the same as driving down the freeway with a bag over your head

We have taught hundreds of people how to test over the internet; we would love to help you learn.

 

I forgot to answer you q about the price of insulin. My vet charges $90 for a vial of prozinc, and around $30 for 100 syringes. So your vet's price seems comparable. The syringes are pretty expensive. Which is why I have switched to using u-100 syringes with a conversion chart. Those are $12 for 100 from Walmart. It also makes fine-tuning their doses easier. You can precisely measure in .2 increments with those.

 

Hi Rose, and welcome! To tell the truth, my Squamee hated to be tested. In the beginniing I was crying because she would fight so. It took me weeks to get the routine down . But my testing saved her from hypo-ing more than once. Most cats are not that difficult, but we know lots of tricks to help you, so if you have trouble testing, let us know and we will all chime in. Ultimately, it really created a deeper bond between me and Squamee, and tho I would have thought it impossible, shortly before she died she began coming over to me and sitting down next to me when she saw me take out the testing materials. Good luck and keep asking questions!

Go to Tech help on board index and there will be info about putting up your cat's picture. We call it your avatar. If you have any problems, lots of people can help.

 

I checked the needle and I am giving him 1u twice a day. I checked the canned cat food at the store and 9 lives seems to have the most protein but I can not find any list of carbs. Is fiber the same or is that different?. Should I check his levels twice a day or is once ok since the strips are expensive? My cat name is Fluffy and he is 9 years old and a rescue cat. I have a total of 4 rescue cats and 2 rescue Shih Tzu dogs and one Shih Tzu from a breeder Thank you Rose

 

Here is the food chart: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html Nine Lives is a way down the page. Looks like they are fine if you stay away from the Tender Carvings, Tender Nibbles and Tender Slices and the Carvings. Usually it's the gravy ones you want to avoid.

Check ebay for prices on strips. We got ours at less than half the price of the drug stores. Just be sure it is a reliable seller and that the expiration date works for you. You want to test before every shot and mid way in the cycle. Once in a while you will want to do a curve - every 2 hours during a day.

 

What should the protein amt be on the can and also the carbs? Are there any food or treats I can make at home? Thanks Rose

 

The carbs should be under 10%. I never worried about protein since it has no grains.

A good treat is to boil or bake a chicken breast - skinless, no spices. Cut into small cubes and freeze. Bring them out as needed.

 

You cannot use the numbers on the can. They are in "guaranteed analysis" which is a distant step cousin of reality. The numbers in Janet & Binky's charts or the other charts in the nutrition section of the PZI sticky come directly from the manufacturer and are then converted into as %Kcal consumed. If you are a numbers type I'd be happy to show you how to get the data and do the conversion and/or you can read the FAQ on J&B's page. Do not use the numbers on the can. Print out the J&B's SS and take it with you to the store.

Also if you have not already, please do read the PZI Sticky - especially the Newbie Checklist part:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32799 :smile:
Tons of great info in there.

 

I went to Walmart today and bought a Relion Meter. Hope I can figure it out. I also bought some Fancy Feast canned food and the first 5 ingredients were fish I did not see any corn products listed. Does anyone knopw amy dry food I can use along with the wet. I have 3 other cats to feed. They have no medical problems Thank you

 

You can feed them all the canned food. Low carb is pretty much good for all cats, even those without diabetes. I have the relion meter too and it's a snap, just make sure when you put the first strip in the number that shows (F-4 or F-5 or whatever) matches the number on the back of the strip container. You'll see it on the sticker on the back. I love the relion because it needs such a small blood sample.

 

The ReliOn should work well for you; try it on yourself first to make sure you know how it works. If you look at his ear with a flashlight before even starting, you can see the little capillaries that run off the main vein running down the ear. That is where you want to poke. Put a tiny smear of vaseline where you know you want to poke; it will help you find it and will help the blood bead up. Be sure to make up the rice sack (thinnish sock filled with raw rice, knotted and warmed in microwave until very warm but not hot) and hold it against his ear for 30 - 45 seconds.

Don't be discouraged if you don't get blood on the first try. Some do; some don't. We poked poor Oliver for an entire weekend before we got a drop. Be sure to reward him with a treat, blood or not, so he associates getting poked with goodies.

Fish is low carb. We do try to feed it only once or twice a week. It is high in mercury so like humans, you don't want it to be a steady diet. And cats can come to prefer it over other foods which makes it hard to switch up. If you take the food chart I gave you earlier to the store, there should be lots of options. If your other cats will eat the wet, I would feed wet to everyone. It is a much healthier diet for any cat and may keep them from becoming diabetic. (http://www.catinfo.org) The other issue is that if your kitty is carb sensitive, even low carb dry can raise bg levels which can be very frustrating.

 

I got the Relion Micro I hope that was the right one to buy.

 

Raw or home cooked food is the other very good thing you can feed besides canned.

Just make sure the flavors are on J&B's list and are less than 10% carbs as %Kcal.

Cats eat very very little carbs in nature and to my knowledge do not even needs carbs in their diet [though I would have to double check about this]. Ideally all cats would eat a low carb medium fat grain free diet, but just getting all your cats on a low carb wet food only diet is a huge step forward.

Fish also tends to be high in Phosphorous. So it sounds like you have a good start on things but as you go along you might find that you will want to optimized the diet even a little more.

 

Today I got a meter from my brother in law that is first touch. I would like to know what setting the lancet should be on? Thank you PS I hope that is the correct name.

 

Correction Lancing pen and One touch

 

I really liked a setting of "4." I think when I started I used "5" but found I would go all the way though with 5. Sometimes I would still go all the way though with "4" but not as often. I would put the sock under his ear then lance. The lancets are best in 28 gauge IMHO. Some like smaller [higher gauge], but to start with it can be hard to get blood with small lancets. Aim for the "sweet spot" and not the vein. I really liked the One Touch lancing pen and used it even though I gave up using the One Touch meter for the Freestyle lite because it used way less blood.

 

I just read about how to give injections and I think I may be doing it incorrectly. I find a spot near the back about 2 inches below the backbone part the hair and then give him the shot. I have not been pinching the skin. Is this the wrong way?

 

My cats lab tests show alt at 258 Phos at 3.8 what are these? Also t4 was low at 0.8 and chol was 274 Does diabetes effect these numbers?

 

You pinch up a bit of skin to form a tent and shoot into the tent at a 45 degree.

That's the best way to avoid a fur shot where the needle goes straight through and out the other side of the skin and you shoot the insulin onto their fur.

 

Here's some info: How to give a shot It has pictures.

 

I tried that this morning and he has such long hair it is hard I have to part the hair and give him the shot. Is it ok to give him the shot into the skin or must I pinch the skin? Thank you

 

You can shave a spot where you want to shoot - or have the vet do it. Oliver was a Maine Coon with very long hair. I had to part it and smooth the sides down until I could see skin, then pull it up and shoot.

 

You should pinch the skin and pull it up slightly.

H was very long hair and I had to part his hair too. If I remember correctly you need to have the part running perpendicular to the pinch. Like if you had a river and you were going to try to pinch it from it's banks and pull it up off the earth :smile: .

I gave H his shots in the side of his belly [careful not to hit a nipple :shock: ]. He loved belly rubs so I would get him down and give him belly rubs and he would stretch out really long then I could do the parting and shooting really easily.

The PZI Sticky has a where to shoot link. If you can only do the scruff and that's the most reliable for you then that's fine. But if you can shoot if one of the other locations that's probably more ideal.

 

I am feeding Fluffy Wet food now and he is having a problem with diahrea. Being a long haired cat it is a mess. He has been on dry food for nine years and now he is on wet. Is there any dry that I can buy that is ok for him or does anyone have any solutions to his stomach problems?

 

There are a couple lowish carb dry foods, (innova evo is one of them, the other is by wellness-but i cant recall the variety at the moment) but they aren't ideal for a diabetic cat still. The carb count is still higher than the wet foods, plus they are depleted of all moisture- which a diabetic cat needs. Many beans have also noticed that those cause higher and longer food spikes in the glucose levels than the wet foods. Have you tried other flavors or brands? Has Fluffy been diagnosed with pancreatitis? I'm sure you're not the only one who has had this issue. You may want to start a new thread both here in pzi and on the health board with the subject being something like "wet food causing diarrhea". That'll get a lot more people to help you!

 

His system will probably adjust in a little bit. For now you might want to snip away some of the longer hair on his backside to help keep that area clean. Isn't cat ownership fun? :mrgreen:

 

We had trouble with beef flavors causing loose stools. We did much better with chicken and turkey. You might also add some FortiFlora to the food. It is probiotic that sometimes helps.

 

I am taking Fluffy to the vet tomorrow I want him show me how the use the meter and check his levels. The vet did not say anything about pancreatis but I will ask him. Thank so much for the wonderful advice This morning after seeing the mess I cut off alot of hair from backend. He HATES it.

 

Fluffy went to the vet today and not sure about the news. The last time it was at the vet he weighted 11.7 now he weighs 11.0 His glucose is up from 432 to 437 The good news his his alt went from 250 to 73 , TBIl was .04 now .07, K+ was 4.3 now 3.5, Phos is the same 3.0 He does not have Pancreatitis. That is good. Let me know what this all means Thanks

 

I have to admit, the part I have been waiting for - did you learn how to home test? If not, can we teach you?

It is THE most valuable tool you have to help your kitty. 430s at the vet can translate into 330s and even 200s, if your cat is stressed while there. You need to know what his bg levels are, at home.

 

I forgot the mention that the vet uped his dose to 1 1/2 u .As for testing I called one touch and walked me though it. I practiced on my husband and his was high so we are going to test him again. He ate about 2 hours ago and had hot chocolate with marshmellows will test him before he eats dinner. Diabetes runs in his family and we checked his a couple of days ago at his brothers and it was 100.

 

One of the main differences is that you don't need to warm your husband's ear :mrgreen: but you will Fluffy's. I also suggest looking at his ear with a flashlight first so you can see the little capillaries that run off the vein down the side of the ear. That is where you are aiming - for the capillaries. If you put a tiny smear of vaseline where you want to poke, it will help you find the right place, and it will help the blood bead up.

Don't be discouraged if it doesn't work the first time - probably 1% of the members here got it on the first try. We spent an entire weekend poking poor Oliver before we got a drop. If you have trouble, come on and ask for tricks that helped us. We all have ideas.

Why don't you start a new thread? This one is getting too long. It will be good when you have some numbers and know whether the 1.5 increase is working well.

 

Do not tell them you are using it on your cat. Say you are using in on your baby or DH.