Compounded PZI

Hi All,

I was looking for some info for David and Miles on PZI types. I was interested to see that the last three OTJ kitties (kathyh, holly and totallybeaching) all used compounded PZI. Do any of our current posters use it?

Wonder if compounded is better than ProZinc or if there is any difference?

No , I don't use it --- but would gladly switch!

That is an interesting thought.

I know that since we got here a year ago with our Prozinc I've heard alot about how much everyone liked the old PZI types so much better.

I know the issue with compounded PZI is that it can be inconsistent from batch to batch. Wonder if hometesting can help with that?

Maybe this discussion should be in the Think Tank? Don't want to confuse newbies. Or are we a small enough group to discuss it here?

Concerns I have seen lately:

ProZinc not lasting long enough before numbers suggest a new vial is needed.
Inconsistent patterns. We expect that because ECID, but it seems to be hard to find very many consistent patterns in cats like Asher and Henry.

I do have Gator's email address and asked his opinion. I know he was always concerned about the inconsistency in the compounded version.

I think we are ok discussing it here as we are a small group and everyone here will be interested.

I know there were concerns about inconsistancy from vial to vial but wouldn't you be able to figure that out and adjust accordingly?

I'd like to hear what Joanna thinks.

hmmm.
that sounds so interesting
I will check when I get home but I think I have prozinc,
but would GLADY change

How would we know if it is compound, would it so easily state compounded?

(Stupid question)

I think the compounded version will have a pharmacy label. I think I have read that the ProZinc comes in a blue and green bottle. But my experience is old so let's see what others say.

I'm still occasionally poking Maisey - just to be sure. She still occasionally jumps up to the bathroom sink, although she usually gets there now and gives me a "why did I get up here" look instead of acting as if she just came in from the dessert. I'd be willing to send my vial on to see if it makes a difference for someone else. It's a clear vial in a Dark Blue bottle.

thanks! I have the green box and it says prozinc

I will talk to my vet about this soon

My understanding is that a compounded version would have to be obtained from a compounding pharmacy and you would know it. Wedgewood is a compounding pharmacy that I dealt with when I needed special medicines made in flavors for Squamee. BCP is the one of the best known pharmacies--- and they sent out info when PZI was going out of production that they would be continuing to make it. You can find it online. If your bottle says ProZinc, then it should not be compounded PZI.
for what it's worth, I had very good results with PZI and not with ProZinc. I though it was probably Squamee's worsening medical conditions, but now I am not sure. I was never able to determine a nadir, and her responses were inconsistent. She also did what others have recently found, every so often giving a low PS and having numbers to indicate the insulin did not wear off for 14-16 hours or so.

http://www.bcpvetpharm.com/. This is the link

The only thing I know really is that my vet (who I trust) was against it due to the possibility of inconsistencies. I think you can get a free sample from BCP, right? So might be worth if for some of those not feeling happy with ProZinc to give it a trial (especially if you sell it to them that way, seems like they'd send you some for free! :mrgreen: )...?

On the inconsistencies with ProZinc front, I think it's just so hard to know if the problems are that the dose isn't right, vs. an actual insulin problem. I know on PZI Vet when we got to the end of the vial all of a sudden doses that had worked well for Bix weren't working and I couldn't figure it out. Someone suggested "try a new vial", and then he went back to a good response again. But some of the kitties here aren't necessarily getting a great response, so it's not like you have a cat in blues & greens and then after a month they are in yellows & pinks, and then you get a new vial and it's back to blues & greens. I haven't seen anything that clearcut, though I'll admit I haven't always followed everything closely.

And as far as inconsistent response to a dose, I think a lot of times that is from the dose being too low. I know before I got Bix regulated he would sometimes get a blue nadir, sometimes a yellow one, whatevs, and maybe it looked inconsistent, but really it was just the dose too low. I used to get freaked out about raising the dose b/c of those occasional blue or green nadirs and I would think there was some risk in raising, and I would kind of "hope" that this dose was going to magically get us back to those good nadirs, since I saw them sometimes. Never happened that way though, it was only through pressure on the dose and raising it more aggressively that I started to get consistent good #s for him. I mean, I was one of those who got a blue nadir once on 0.4u, so was convinced he was a low dose kitty and the rest was all rebound. But he didn't get regulated til I got up to 1.8u.

So anyway, I see that a lot here, that there is an apparent inconsistent response & all, and I just have to wonder if we are too conservative in many cases with the dose, and that is the problem. If everyone took a more protocol-ed approach like they do on the Ls (with some modifications especially with the no shoot), I wonder if we would see better results. It seems like a lot of times people just la la around in lower doses and higher #s, and then we wonder why their kitties aren't regulated. I'll be the first to admit I contribute to that at times with waffling on whether the dose is too high or too low (I think in 80% of cases it is probably too low), and getting suckered out by the good nadir that shows up here & there. But really, most of the cats I've seen get regulated or go OTJ did that b/c their bean shot more insulin rather than less.

Oops, I tripped up onto the soapbox there!!! Ok, stepping down now :mrgreen:

Here's some info I got:

BCP uses bovine insulin - not the Humulin N or R that most other compounded insulins are made from. Plus BCP seems to pay attention to things like not shipping on a Friday and supposedly they have had independent lab testing done on their product to test for consistency. Basically they *seem* to pay attention to details.

Supposedly compounded insulin can be more variable from batch to batch and some testing has been done to prove this. Not surprising with the number of places willing to make compounded insulin.

IF someone wants to do the compounded route then they could go with BCP to capture any benefits of using bovine insulin. Unless they know their kitty is a big gulper, they should order the U-40 BCP. U-40 BCP is about the closest thing to the old PZI Vet insulin one can get now. Many other compounded insulins are made in U100.

I like Joanna's idea of a free sample of BCP for some kitties to consider. And I agree there certainly can be other reasons for the non movement in some of the cats - including doses that are too low. I just don't know. Just thought it was an interesting coincidence - all recent remissions on compounded PZI. Although in each case, the food change seemed to make a big difference also.

I just replied to a similar question in this forum, but wanted to add to that.

I used several vials of BCP beef PZI years ago (before I switched to IDEXX PZI), and I too found that the potency of each vial of BCP compounded beef PZI was different.
Yes, I could "figure it out" eventually and adjust, but the first few days and doses were a mystery, since their standards seem to allow a lot of variance. Stuart rebounds at the slightes "overage" on dose, and so it would take a while to stabilize him, if I ever could before the vial was empty! I am hoping that their compounding standards have tightened, as my Stuart responds best to beef PZI, and BCP is a convenient supplier (and since I am ordering from them today I hope).

The other thing is that a PDF available on ProZinc's web site says that their insulin is recombinant human insulin. Here is the link to the info: http://prozinc.us/document_handler.ashx?document_id=17

Hope this helps!

Victoria