Not regulated and need to change insulins; need advice

Hi, I'm new here and so impressed that most of you test before each shot or daily. Munkin really doesn't like testing and it takes me and another skilled person to do it, and I don't have such a person available, except once in awhile. He's easy to give shots to while eating, and same for subq fluids, but does not like that ear prick! Even my vet says he is a very feisty cat.

Meanwhile Munkin has never tested below 250 and we think we are doing well if he tests 270 to 350. His high was around 475. He behaves quite differently if low--his pink nose gets pale and his activity level goes way down and this almost never happens.

Most of the time he is so hungry and for him that is a sign of his high levels and insulin resistance in action.

His diet is very low carb, meat, a little vegetables, no dry food, good supplements, vitamins, naturopathic things, herbs, fish oil, chromium, etc. He's got the sunken sides of the diabetic kitty but is holding his own, gets around fine, etc. I suspect he has an underlying problem that increases his levels, and his kidneys are a little overlarge, but that's all we know. I do generally give him 100 ML of subq fluids tw

Diagnosed in October 2008. He has been on Vetsulin 9.5 units twice a day for about 8 months. We switched to Vetsulin because the BCP PZI was not really doing it for him. The Vetsulin has been better. Now of course we have to give that up. He was on Glargine to start back in 2008 but it did not work for him so that was why we went to BCP PZI. It was better than Glargine.

Vet is now recommending PZI and so I'm wondering how people's cats are doing with the new ProZinc version?

Any other advice welcome too. Thanks!

p.s. that was sub q fluids twice a week. Also I think we were getting the symogi rebound effect on the bcp pzi in the end, with a dose of 11 units twice a day. He weighs 11 to 12 pounds now, but used to weigh 14.
thanks!

Hello there and Welcome :smile:

I am a newbie myself.. as of 2/19/10, but I am sure you came to the right place. I am sure others will chime in soon to give you some good advice, but I wanted you to know that you are not alone. If you can try and home test that would be very helpful for your kitty. I am sure ppl can give you some ideas about the BG ear approach. Just thought I'd mention what worked for me for BG testing. I sit in a chair with my legs crossed Indian style. I put Prudence in my lap and give her some love cat_pet_icon I wash may hands under warm/hot water before I start, so when I rubbed her ear.. I don't know, I think it helps the blood flow. I take a small piece of paper towel and fold it and place on the inside of ear along the section I will be doing the test. I test on the fur side of the ear. I also do this at my desk. This way I have everything I need in reach. I use the ReilOn Micro meter since it only needs 0.3 of blood. I just keep talking to her as I doing everything. I find it easier when I pick her up while she's in her cat bed and place in my lap while taking her BG.

If you go to the board index, then tech support board, then this topic: Creating spreadsheets & attaching them to your signature - you can create a spreadsheet, so we can help you along with the process. The more consistent info you have, the better decisions you and your vet can make. Without consistency, you're kind of flying blind.

Prudence is on the Prozinc, but again.. still new at it, but haven't had any problems. I hope this helps :smile:

You said you are feeding a homemade diet. Just hope you are getting the recipe from a reliable source since it not that easy to get all the supplements ins the right proportions such as the calcium/phosphorous ratio as well as the calcium content itself.

Thanks Larry and Kitties and Prudence's mom, Larry, Munkin can't do calcium supplements at all. If he gets bone meal or any thing with calcium he gets urine crystals and bleeds and pees everywhere. Thank goodness we figured that out years ago. thanks for the advice though!

hi & welcome!!! there is a clothes-pin trick that some people use that works wonders for the testing - http://www.felinecrf.org/giving_sub-qs_ ... _peg_trick

That's quite a high dose of insulin - have you done blood tests before for things that might warrant that (like insulin resistance or Acro?). Not saying the tests are necessarily needed, just wondering if that is something you have already done since the doses are fairly high.

Do you have data that you can share, even if it is from the vets?

We are on Idexx PZI so I can't really comment on PZIR, except to say there are several people here who are using it and posting regularly - but most have only been on it for a few weeks so IMO the jury is still out!

Thanks Joanna, I'd be curious to know more about Idexx PZI. We haven't tried that.

I have not been offered any test for insulin resistance. We are simply certain that he is very resistant. What tests are there for that?

Never even heard of Acro until I got on this list yesterday. He has lost weight not gained, but his kidneys do seem somewhat enlarged. Poor kitty. Feisty kitty. Hungry kitty. I wish I could help him get regulated. We would all be so much happier. There is a lot of meowing around here.

Well last night I was almost finished with a very long post to you and it disappeared into cyberspce AHHHHHH

So let me try again-
I also am a high dose mom with a long term diabetic kitty, now using Prozinc, recently diagnosed with acromegaly. Take a look at our profile and spreadsheet. click the links near our signature.

I'm new here and so impressed that most of you test before each shot or daily. Munkin really doesn't like testing

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Unfortunately, home testing is really important if you want to really know what is going on with your kitty, if he is really 'high dose' or if he is just in chronic rebound from being overdosed. There are a lot of resources here to help you get better at it. Trust me, you are not the only one who has trouble with this :lol: Have you tried bribing with Freeze dried chicken breast treats? heres a link for home testing tips viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287

Munkin has never tested below 250 and we think we are doing well if he tests 270 to 350. His high was around 475.

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I wrote something very similar in my first post here in January.

Most of the time he is so hungry

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Hunger is very common in untreated/ unregulated diabetics. Their cells are starving because the glucose cant get inside the cell, without insulin. Acro cats seem to be especially desperate. At one time Cody would eat anything- read out profile

and for him that is a sign of his high levels and insulin resistance in action.

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There is a test for insulin resistance called the IAA ($11?) and another blood test for Acromegaly ($45?) which is a slow growing pituatary tumor. You can read more about these in the "high dose" insulin support group forum. viewforum.php?f=12

his kidneys are a little overlarge,

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tissue overgrowth/ organ enlargement occurs in acromegaly.

Vet is now recommending PZI and so I'm wondering how people's cats are doing with the new ProZinc version?

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Sounds like you have been through a lot of the options already. Some newly diagnosed cats have gone into remission. It is new, so I think the best way to use it is still being worked out. I think one thing I've noticed is that it may take a little longer to settle than some folks are used to. If you start it, try to be patient. In my opinion you don't want to make a judgement on the first 2-3 days on a dose. It is a very gentle insulin, and you will probably not see the sharp sudden drop that you saw with vetsulin, so be prepared to move slowly. It may take a week or more to get the numbers lower and flatter, with less up and down, on any given dose.

As for preparing your own meals- I would be afraid of missing some crucial nutrient, so I have never gone that route. I do supplement with freeze dried, or canned chicken breast to increase the protien quality.

Welcome and if you need some more info from high dose moms, about testing etc, let us know. ;-)