Needing direction on many fronts as a new member

As a new member, I have been reading posts but unsure how to use this forum. I have adopted ( August16th /2013) a recently diagnosed (June 2013) 15 year old, obese (17lbs)male cat and he is currently on Lantus 4 units BID . He is fed Feline's Choice ( pretty much the same composition as Feline's Pride ) in small frequent meals throughout the day: he is off all dry food. At night, however, he is contained in a spacious room to keep him from urinating all over the house ( reason why he was adopted from his previous owners) and caterwauling at the bottom of our stairs during the night looking for food. He is fed his last meal at 8:30 PM and doesn't get food again until 6AM the following morning. He does urinate outside his box on a fairly regular basis at night ( the room is fully tarped and protected) but once outside of his containment ,he has never urinated inside our house. He is an indoor/outdoor cat.

Has anyone had any experience with an automated food dispenser at night? If so, what kind and type works best? Based on some of the hysterical reviews I have been reading , these machines are pretty unpredictable at best.

Thank you for any help as both a new member and with my food dispenser question. Linelle and Oreo .

 

High Linelle and Oreo and welcome to FDMB. Thank you so much for giving this cat a home.

There are several people here that use automatic feeders. Someone should be able to recommend a brand.

What may be happening is your cat is not regulated and he is getting too much insulin. There is a condition called Somogyi rebound which results from too much insulin being given. 4 units is a very high dose for most diabetic cats. Most only take 1 to 2 units. With Somogyi rebound, because the dose is too high, in order to protect itself from becoming hypoglycemic, the cat's body produces extra glucose to counteract the effects of the insulin. So the extra glucose raises the cat's BG levels, which in turn causes the excessive hunger & urinating.

I have several suggestions. First, if you have not already started, learn to home test. You will use a human glucose meter to read your cat's blood glucose (BG) before every shot. This is done to first, determine if it is safe to give insulin & second, to determine if the dose is working.

I would also recommend that you start back over at 1 unit twice a day. You will need to stay at that dose for at least one week before considering an increase. If you will also start testing, we can use the readings to help you determine if you need to increase the dose in order to find the optimal dose that works best for your cat. If an increase is needed, it will only be in 1/4 to 1/2 unit increments, with at least one week between dose changes. It takes at least one week for a cat's body to adjust to a new dose.

 

The PetSafe 5, available via our shopping partner Amazon (link at top of page) has worked well for many folks. Another option is to freeze some food which may be nibbled as it thaws.

Note that until his diabetes is regulated, he will be ravenous and may be fed up to 50% more than a non-diabetic cat, since he can't use all of what he eats.

The 4 units is very high, and may have to do with the % of calories from carbohydrates in what you are feeding. Check the food list at Cat Info to find the % of calories, not weight, from carbohydrates in the food.

Before adjusting the dose, please pick up some urine ketone test strips, such as KetoStix or KetoDiaStix to test for urine ketones. These form as a by-product of fat breakdown for calories. Too many may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis, a potentially fatal, expensive to treat complication of diabetes.

Somogyi has not been reliably documented in felines. Dusty never had elevated glucose in response to excessive insulin; he tested at 31 mg/dL after 2 weeks on too high a dose (his owner couldn't home test due to arthritis).

 

Thank you BJM as well as Lisa . I replied to Lisa with a personal message but I see this may be the best way to respond to people rather than one at a time. As I indicated to Lisa, I have been home testing Oreo with a Nano Accu-Chek and I found Dr Lisa Pierson on line prior to knowing about this site. She referred me to this messaging board but I was not able or ready to deal with the forum. She has been helping me with a number of Oreo's issues ,the main one being his insulin: he has gone from 5.5 units of Lantus BID to 4 BID. I am having some relatively good luck with his numbers during the day ,but it is the night time confinement (totally necessary and unfortunate) that is the most stressing as indicated by his usually high numbers with his AMPS. I will check out the PETSAFE 5 , BJM, and I am so happy to have a place where people are dealing with similar issues. My thanks to you both for your thoughtful responses. Linelle and Oreo

 

An idea which may or may not work: stud pants for cats. These are used mostly with intact males to catch the spraying so you don't have to clean it up. Some cats will tolerate these: some will not.
on Amazon!

 

Another thank you BJM. Oreo is a neutered cat and unfortunately has been dealing with so many changes in his life over the past couple of months, I think wearing pants,at night, may be another thing to stress him out . His room is well padded with tarps as well as incontinent pads and actually it is not bad to clean up given it is only in this confined space at night: sometimes there are no issues at all. I make sure both his 30 gallon litter boxes as well as his room are pristine each night. He is perfectly in control once he is free to roam and get his small frequent feedings during the day. I think the next logical step would be to see if he can get a bit of food at night. I'll check that Petsafe 5 food dispenser. Thanks. Linelle

 

Hello and welcome to the board

We prefer people to post on the board instead of PMs when it comes to advice and dosing because it ensures that other newbies can learn from the advice, plus the advisor isnt put in a situation of giving advice that might cause issues.. posting on the board means you get a wide range of advice from people with a wide range of experience. Plus we all wanted to know the answer about the testing as it helps us advise better!!

Can you give us some examples of his numbers? He is on a high dose and we want to check for bouncing so it would be good to see some preshot and mid cycle test results to see how high he starts off, and how low the Lantus is taking him

Lastly - can you give me the link where it says the % calories from carbs as fed for Felines choice? Not all foods are the same in terms of carbs and I want to check its not too high. I tend to not feed if I am not sure because same composition doesnt necessarily mean same % calories from carbs as fed if you are judging by the can since those are just minimums usually

thanks

Wendy

 

Hello Wendy and thank you for your message. I would gladly post his Google drive sheet so you can see where he started and where he is at the moment, however, I am not sure how to do that: right up there with not knowing where to post on this board. Before I was directed to this site ,I found Dr Lisa Pierson's web site and she has been helping me with Oreo's insulin and adjustments.

Here are the ingredients of Feline's Choice: Fresh defatted chicken thighs with bone, fresh chicken liver,fresh egg yolk, TCfeline custom premix( taurine, calcium carbonate,freeze dried krill,xanthan gum,Vit E succinate (Alpha -tocopherol) ,Vitamin D3,Vitamin A palmitate, sufficient water for processing. protein/15.5% , fats/9.6%. carbohydrates/less than 0.1% , energy 148kcal/100g, moisture/72.7%, ash/2.2%, crude fiber/ less than 0.1%, calcium/0.571%, phosphorus/ 0 .475% and magnesium/ 0.028%.
Thank you Wendy.

 

Do you have a google account and sheet set up? if so start with this link http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207 and scroll to where it saysB. Publishing your SS, aka Attaching to signature (directions by Squeem3) and follow those instructions to post

Wendy

 

Yes, my google account and spread sheet have been set up. Will need time to figure this out how to get it from my existing google account to where I actually post on this site. Thanks Wendy, I'll get there eventually . Linelle

 

Hi Wendy,

Here is the link to my Google spreadsheet for Oreo: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... sp=sharing

Please take a look and let me know if you have any feedback.

Thank you for your interest,

Linelle

 

Just wanted to welcome both of you and let you know that we are all here to help you. Gobbles, is my (still-sugary sweet) diabetic cat in remission. He was diagnosed in November 2012 and went "OTJ" (off the juice) this past May. Without the help, support, compassion and guidance of FDMB members, I am scared to think where we'd be at now with his diagnosis. This all gets easier, believe me. Please ask ANY questions you have. Good luck!

 

It says "Access Denied." In order to share it with others without them having tor request permission, go to File -> Publish to the web... and check the box that says "Automatically republish when changes are made." Then, copy the address that appears under the section that says "Get a link to the published data" and use that instead (it should start with https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?).

 

First of all Kat, thank you for that lovely welcome. It is indeed comforting to know there are people out there in similar situations who are ready and willing to help. It must be such a thrill to have your cat OTJ.

To Kpassa,thank you for your response and feedback about the spread sheet. I am totally computer challenged and I'll get my son to help me with this issue when he is available.

With appreciation. Linelle

 

You're welcome. :thumbup Great job on already getting so many tests in and the spreadsheet started!

 

I think you need to click the share button...

 

Wendy, when I click on the share button there is a space to add other people. Do I just copy and paste the link to the feline diabetes board that is up on my screen now?

posting.php?mode=reply&f=28&t=106306

And, if I added the above ,does that mean people can get in and change things around? Where do I place the link etc.? I don't want to screw it up . Dr Pierson is currently the only person who can edit if need be. Thanks Wendy. I am looking forward to getting this spread sheet in a place where people can see it so that when I ask questions I can see opinions based on other people's experiences.


Kpassa mentioned the number of tests I was able to get in. Wouldn't that assume she was able to view the spread sheet? I'm confused ...

Thanks again, to you both. Linelle and Oreo

 

Click share and then click on "anyone with a link can view" under "who has access". It just means they view - they will not be able to edit it.

ie
Who has access
Anyone who has the link can view Change...

Wendy

 

This is the link to share that I see on the spreadsheet Wendy:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... sp=sharing
Are you able to access Oreo's information?

Linelle

 

Just clicked on something else Wendy that says anyone with a link can view. Do I need to copy and paste the link at the top of the spread sheet now for you to actually see the information? Can you imagine how well I'm doing the diabetic part based on my computer skills ? Thanks .Linelle

 

Just discovered the bottle of Lantus I was using for Oreo expired in JUNE of this year!!! Does anyone else have any experience with using expired insulin and could that account for larger numbers? Once I get that "fresh" bottle,and, if the old stuff is in fact less effective, would I have to be extremely vigilant when Oreo is given his high dosage of Lantus: 4 units BID? Thanks . Linelle

 

I have used Lantus pens that have been expired with no problems. How long since you first used the vial? That is usually more important. At 4 units bid a vial wold last 125 days. That is a little over four months. So likely the an open vial will last that long. I would just be careful when starting another via since it may be more potent.

 

Thanks Larry. Not sure what "pens" are since I purchased from the vet's office the Lantus in a vial . I noticed it expired in mid June and I have been using it right up to today. Oreo's numbers are creeping up or not going down for those early AMPS so I started to think about the possibilities : so many factors for consideration with this disease that I completely missed an expiry date as a possible contributing factor. Thanks for your prompt reply. Linelle

 

Pens only contain 300 units and you can attached pen needles to them to directly inject without using a syringe.
http://www.hkapi.hk/images/drugs_images ... 20crop.JPG

or you can use a syringe to draw the Lantus from the pen
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc28 ... raw2-1.jpg
Most caretakers use one or two units bid and find out that the remainder in the a vial goes bad before it is used up but they can use up a whole pen. Per units. Lantus in a pen cast more than Lantus in a vial

 

Again thank you Larry. What a lot of stuff to learn. I'll check into these as options. Linelle

 

Those members using pens generally take a syringe to withdraw the insulin as the pens can only dose in whole units. You just take the needle cap off, then poke the syringe in the pen reservoir. That way, you may adjust the dose by drops, or quarter units, or half units as needed.

 

Again BJM, you continue to be there which is lovely. I will use up the $100 vial of insulin and look into whether the pens are more cost effective. Also I tried to get my spread sheet up and running for others to view but I'm not sure whether it worked or not. Would love the opportunity to ask questions about Lantus insulin but I'm not sure where to ask. Would it be here on this space or do I go to the Lantus form? I think Oreo is in a holding pattern with his 4 units BID and I'd like to hear about plateaus ,what they mean, how long before a change in dosage etc... from others with similar experiences. Thank you. Linelle

 

To start reading up on Lantus, definitely go to the Lantus forum. Basic information on using, storing, and dose monitoring and adjustment are at the top of the 2nd section in the forum.

And you're welcome to post there, too. Folks in tight regulation post a daily 'condo', titled with the date, the cat's name, and any test results they've gotten over the day (they add then to the first post's subject line by editing that post).

 

Again BJM you have kindly responded to my concerns . Today after quite some time with Oreo's numbers being in the blues and even greens with the occasional yellows ,(Lantus 4 units BID) Oreo's AMPS was 337. I switched to a newer bottle of Lantus two days ago because I thought his 5 month old bottle might not be as effective. The last time he was in a Pink Zone for an AMPS was 9/29/13 and has been gradually getting better numbers except for a few days when I questioned the Lantus efficacy. At 6am it was difficult for me to find what to do in the event of high AMPS and, if in fact it could have been a rebound number because his body may be healing. So I gave 3.5 units rather than the usual 4. I will monitor carefully over the day. In your opinion ,what actions would you have taken? I'm sure there are many scenarios that I have yet to come across so I'll take the issues one at a time. Thank you . Linelle

 

I cant access your spreadsheet - can you give us the link again? Maybe also put it in your signature so its easy to find?


Wendy

PS I am still suspicious of that feline choice food. We dont have proven % calories from carbs as fed and it might be keeping him high. You might want to test a proven lower carb food from this list for a few days: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=94685

 

Hello again Wendy. I see I continue to be "link challenged" even though I thought I did something that would help that situation: a work in progress much like this diabetes situation.
And yes, I also thought about Oreo's food FELINE'S CHOICE: Carbs are <0.1% , Protein is 15.5% , Fat is 9.6%, Energy is 148 kcal/100g plus all the other things for that close to nature balance. I see on Dr Pierson's list the Carbs are actually higher in some of these products. Oreo is losing weight slowly based on the observations of people who have not seen him for some time. Having said that, perhaps you can explain what your concern would be about these numbers and/ or ingredients? Has there been issues, that you are aware of with diabetic cats not doing well on these raw foods as opposed to the regular canned varieties? Thanks for your feedback Wendy and it's back to the drawing board with that spreadsheet situation.
Where does my signature for a spreadsheet go? I have no idea what you are talking about and I'm sure you get the title "needing directions on many fronts as a new member". Little did you know the computer is a bigger issue than the diabetes for me at the moment. Thanks Wendy. Linelle

 

Wendy ,does this link allow you an access to Oreo's chart? Linelle
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html
If so, where else does it go on this site? Linelle

 

yes! Put that link in your signature. It looks like she bounced off the 99 yesterday. He may have gone even lower than 99. 4 units is working so far. If he drops under 50 then you would reduce to 3.75 units and hold that till he drops under 50 again - and repeat. However he might drop low at night , many cats do...

When you say 0.11% carbs what do you mean? Is that % calories from carbs as fed? Or % weight?

I am just saying that .... If it was my cat ... since the food isnt on dr pierson or janet and binkys lists ... and unless I have the carbs listed exactly as % calories from carbs as fed....and if my cat was on such a high dose of insulin (most cats are 1-2 units)..... I would be very suspicious that the food may be spiking my cats sugar! I would hate to make an assumption and have my cat never go into remission and/or be poorly regulated as a result. I would definately test a new food, from the list, for a few days. S'all I am saying


Wendy

 

#1- Does that mean the link goes at the end of each post when I sign my name - "Put that link in your signature" ?
#2- I did send Dr Pierson a screen shot of the list of ingredients written on the Feline's Choice package -very similar to Feline's Pride from the states and she actually recommended Feline's Pride on her website for one of the really obese cats she was treating -"Bennie" and stated she wished she had started him earlier on Feline's Pride. She didn't seem to have any concerns about this food but maybe someone out there has had issues with diabetes and this type of food. Having said that, yes Wendy, what Oreo is eating is at the back of my mind as well. It's actually 0.1% carbs on the package if it's the carbs that could be spiking the sugars ?" Is that % calories from carbs as fed? Or % weight?" How do you figure that out?

Thanks again. Linelle

 

Good job on the signature - I can see the link now.

As per Dr Lisa:

Also

Is there a reason you dont want to try another food from her list for a few days just to see?

Wendy

 

Sorry for the delay Wendy . I re sent the Feline's Choice ingredients to Dr Pierson and here is what she said , but of course, she would prefer if people made their own to have total control. The guy who makes the Feline's Choice here in Toronto is a food inspector. He lost his own cat to diabetes and improper food consumption and felt he could do something to help going forward. He was a partner with Feline's Pride in the states but customs made it impossible to ship the stuff to Canada.

Dr Pierson's comment as of yesterday : "The PFC composition looks fine but I question why they are using bones PLUS calcium carbonate. I also see no vitamin B which can be very fragile in food."

I will in fact contact the guy who makes this Feline's Choice and ask about the bone calcium issue as well as the Vit B.

What do you feed Tiggy?

Thanks again Wendy. Linelle and Oreo.

 

I feed Tiggy and Bailey fancy feast classic pates. they used to get Wellness grain free but I got financial issues and went to a cheaper food. I would do the friskies pates but they are higher in carbs at 8% compared to FF at 3-4%.

Also I used to buy Wellness because i thought it was higher quality - Tiggy had it all his life and then he got cancer and I thought if even with a good food he can get cancer then I might as well go with a cheaper one.

Wendy

 

On another note can you get some mid night cycle tests? He looks like he is bouncing and you are missing half the data. Many cats drop low at night.

Also what does Dr lisa say about your varying the insulin dose? Everything I have read says Lantus is best dosed consistently and not varied - because its a depot insulin that needs time to build up or drain in the cats system - takes 2-3 days for a dose change to settle and you to see an impact. So I find it very strange the varying from 3.5 to 4 units.

I would advise you read the stickys on here - might make things clearer: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9

Wendy

 

Hello Wendy,

Again wonderful information for me. I absolutely loved reading those articles you recommended to me- there is so much to learn but the bits along the way seem to stick better, otherwise it's all too overwhelming.

With respect to food Wendy, Dr Pierson was very interested in what the Feline's Choice maker had to say with respect to the Vit B as well as the calcium in the food composition. The carbs are in fact very low- much lower than most commercial brands. I'm sure she will be researching his response with lots of consideration because, as you know, she wants the best for our cats.

When do you ever sleep? I noticed on your BG spreadsheets: you are taking blood 24/7. In our house, it's easy during the day. Nights are are a problem and Dr Pierson is aware of this issue. I am prepared to get up but she is reluctant to suggest we lose all our sleep because of our age. Also, I think she knows ,when the numbers really get low, that's when the nightime shifts will start.

She is well aware of the flip flop and suggested we try just for a couple of cycles. She is heading in the direction of an insulin change of some sort -yet to be seen.

Also, I see both your cats are diabetic: I can only imagine how much, time, energy ,devotion and cost this must be for you.

With respect to Tiggy, how did you get the diagnosis of acromegaly? Oreo's vet here in Toronto, said it is very rare and they have never tested for it in their clinic. I mentioned it is not as rare as he would think and just left it at that.
Hope I am not writing too much for you. Linelle

 

where do you get the felines choice? if it is low carb I might try it

I dont test anywhere near some people. I naturally wake up in the middle of the night to go pee, or just waken naturally a little . and since I am up I go test.

What motivates me though is that one night Bailey was 320 before bed.I gave him 0.25 units. I happened to wake at 4am and decided to test him. I couldnt find him at first and then I saw him comatose on the step. He was having a hypo and was only 16!!! I rubbed syrup on his gums while shouting for my husband. within a couple minutes (felt like forever) and while my husband was calling an emergency vet, he woke up and started to stagger.. more syrup, more tests and a sleepless night and he was fine. Now I am too scared to sleep through and usually get up at least once. My mistake was the fact that the +2 was 196 - significantly lower than the PMPS. And that means an active cycle since he dropped 100 points in 2 hours. I should have set the alarm.

My vet is in Whitby - he worked with a lab that works with the University of Michigan to do the test. (after i sent him the links here) But i don't think Oreo has acromegaly. I do think you need night tests as he is dropping low at night.

Can you adjust your shot time to at least get a before bed test 2-3 hours after your PM shot? Or set the alarm for a few days to see how low he is going? If he does green during the day he probably does lower green at night - and if its too low then he is bouncing.

Did Dr lisa look at your SS? I am kinda surprised she would recommend inconsistent dosing.

Wendy

 

Wow Wendy, I can understand why you are so careful during the nights after that experience with your cat. I have regular contact with Dr Lisa and she is on board, directing, with the regime to date. For three cycles, I'll be giving Oreo a shot of 3 units at night (down from 3.5) to see where his numbers are in the AM . This Am I thought he would be very high ,but, in fact ,he was lower than the previous AM. I'll see what tomorrow brings. Initially, she did think he might be an insulin resistant cat, but now, she says he is sensitive to the insulin. Oreo is quite fine during the days with those odd lovely greens so I imagine the intention is to keep pounding away at the numbers to get them down. And yes, those later testings will get done.

I did have more of a conversation with Dr. Lisa about Oreo's food. She does make her own and is absolutely sure of what her cats are getting ; she doesn't have a lot of trust when it comes to others making food because you can't be sure of what the analysis really means. Having said that,I do like the Feline's Choice because it is far better than what Oreo was eating for the past 15 years - lots of kibble,from the vet, both regular Science Diet, as well as, Science Diet wet which was changed to Science Diet DM. When I really looked at the contents ( with a magnifying glass) it was full of fillers. Oreo has lost some weight with people noticing he does look slimmer.

I'm not prepared at this point to get the grinder because it has been a flurry of adjustments/expenses since we adopted this 15 year old guy a couple of months ago.I really like the guy who makes this food and I'll stick with him until I hear otherwise. Here is his site and he does deliver to your door. I do know of a vet here in Toronto who gets this delivered to her clinic for her own cats- for what that's worth. My guess is, she would have access to lots of food from the clinic but she gets this stuff???

https://felineschoice.com/store/

Thank you again Wendy. Linelle

 

Just to throw in my 2 cents....

Before concluding that your cat is insulin resistant in the technical sense (i.e., has insulin auto-antibodies), I'd first be considering glucose toxicity. Oreo has been at the 4.0u dose for quite some time. With a depot-type of insulin such as Lantus or Levemir, you're encouraged to evaluate the dose every 3 days/6 cycles or at most, every 5 days, if you're following the Tight Regulation Protocol. If your nadir isn't in the range you want, then you increase the dose. When a cat is in higher than preferred numbers for an extended period, their body acclimates to the higher BG level and treats that range as the new "normal." This makes it more challenging to get the numbers to come down into a better range.

 

with respect to the automatic feeder, we bought the PetSafe 5 Meal Feeder

I really liked it. You'll see in reviews that some people have had it not open all the way. I found that you just have to make sure that it's completely seated in the base unit and then it always turns correctly. There is a button you can press to rotate it to check and see if it's fully seated. i always did that to make sure that it would open. we used ours for at least a year, i think, before punkin passed away. it's a good feeder - well worth the money.

 

Hello Sienne and Julie and I want to thank you both for your responses . Sienne , wow, you are another person who apparently does not sleep based on all your numbers on a 24 hour basis. I am very curious about how you do this. As for your information suggestions,they are very inclusive and I don't think I'm able to absorb the amount or complexity of it all at this moment. I adopted Oreo mid August of this year as a 15 year old newly diagnosed diabetic. As you can imagine, this is a very steep learning curve since I've never owned a cat before. To be clear with respect to his BG numbers and insulin, Dr Lisa Pierson is helping me with this issue on a regular basis. I am quietly chipping away with information, as you suggested in your text, in order to get my head around this whole issue of diabetes. Many thanks for these specific sites: lots to take in and learn.

Julie, you read my mind because I was going to go back to the board to ask if anyone specifically had used one of these feeders and there you were with this response. I have additional questions about this feeder if, and when, you have time to answer. How often can you make the timer go off? For example ,can it be timed to go off every 3 hours? Were you putting wet food into the dish containers or were you using dry ,kibble like food? Why were you using this feeder ? Oreo needs to be contained at night (only) in a room that is fully protected with pads tarps etc.. because he would pee around the house (only at night- not a day time issue) -like he did in his previous owners place -and/or caterwaul all night beside our bed looking for food. He is totally food oriented and his intake is controlled. As it is now, he gets his last meal at night around 8:30 PM (going from getting small frequent meals almost every hour or two during the day) with nothing to eat until 6 AM the following AM. His numbers are quite good during the day and then, his early AM numbers are quite high. The question(s) is whether or not he is in a rebound situation, is he upset because he doesn't have a bit of food - going from being free fed after 15 years to nothing at night, and /or the fact that he is contained and doesn't have the run of the house? Probably all of the above in many circumstances but now it's trying to figure out what I can control to see if things improve on the diabetic front.
Thank you both again for your responses. Linelle

 

i fed all canned food for punkin. you can set the timer for as often as you want - 4 future times. one compartment is under the opening, so you can't cover the 5th compartment. not sure if that makes sense.

typically i used it while i went to work, so at 7am we fed him and gave him his insulin. the feeder was set to go off at 10am (+3) every day. if i was faced with a low preshot, i'd set additional times for it to open, say 9am and 11am as well. then if i was worried about him, i would come home during my lunch and test him again. if he was low, i might set it again for noon and 12:30. i made decisions about how often to have it go off based upon his numbers and the patterns i knew that he was prone to.

i thought it was a great feeder. the consistent complaint i saw in reviews was about it not opening all the way. as i mentioned, my solution for that was to always seat the feeder in the base then press the manual button that would rotate the feeder around one space. then i always left it so that a filled compartment was ready to go next when the automatic timer went off. again, not sure how much sense it makes when i'm describing it, but i never had it not open after i learned to manually move it forward one compartment to make sure it was seated completely.

there is a steep learning curve with the feline diabetes. we all get it - that's why people who have learned how to manage it stay and pass on the information to new people. everyone here is a volunteer. we know that it takes a while to absorb it and you can only get so much at once. so feel free to keep asking questions. we'll all do our best to help you.

eta - many people here use timed feeders with canned food. i don't think there's any problem with leaving it out. i usually put his food in the feeder and added an ice cube on top to keep it cold and from drying out. i think there's a compartment under it to put a blue ice, but i never used it. actually didn't realize it until i was putting it away. :lol:

 

Hello Julie,

Just wonderful info for me and based on what you said, I am going to order the feeder you used:it sounds perfect for Oreo with his limited night time space with no opportunity for food.
On another note Julie, your efforts to help Punkin, on my first time reading of your spread sheet ,were truly inspirational. What a sad and difficult time that must have been. With Punkin's death, I hope you experienced a sweet sadness and closure knowing you and your family did everything possible for him. With great appreciation for your knowledge and continued help for those of us who are dealing with on going issues. Linelle

 

that's so sweet of you, linelle. i miss the little guy every day - wish i could have just a little more time with him. he was an extraordinary cat. there is one video linked to my sig line and some pics on his profile page (they take a while to load up in the google docs) if you want to see what he looked like. we joked (but it was true) that he had psychic abilities. he was the most communicative cat i've ever had.

it's the trade-off of having a diabetic cat. it takes a lot from you, but in return you are blessed with a closeness with your kitter that is more than any other pet you'll ever have.

FDMB is a great place for teaching how to take care of Oreo and keep him safe.

have a great day.

 

The video was wonderful Julie - it is always great to see these animals in order to put a face to their names . On another note, I did purchase the PET 5 feeder and Oreo managed to figure out how to get the food from ALL the compartments in less than 5 minutes . He is an absolute foodie and to see his vigor trying to get at the food was intriguing in an oddly compelling way. From the reviews I read, some hysterical, it would seem there are many cats who get this contraption in no time because of their high motivation to eat. That said, where are those design engineers who could figure out ways to better build these things for those animals who love their food? The theory is perfect but the execution is a little suspect for the foodies. I'd love to see steel bowls, as well as, a better timer. Ours isn't working great and sometimes the bowls don't swing the full way through - probably more to do with us than the machine. This disease is one problem solving solution after another and if I was on a team of humans vs the cats, I'd say the cats are winning . I think whoever comes up with that perfect food (wet ) dispensing machine would be laughing all the way to the bank. Thank you Julie and I'm sure to have many more questions on this journey with Oreo. Linelle

 

i'm very impressed, oreo! :lol: punkin had acromegaly and an insatiable appetite because of the growth hormone comes with that. he was quite the hoover but he never broke into the rest of the feeder. well done, oreo! ;-)

i think i'd take the feeder back. too expensive it if doesn't work for you. what about cat food-sicles? would he eat frozen food while it's still frozen? some people dilute the food with water and freeze it in ice cube trays. to make it harder to eat, you could freeze it in something larger, like cat food cans, maybe. the "average" cat will eat it after it thaws. perhaps oreo is more motivated than that!

the other type of feeder has a hinged lid that flips up. i've heard those are pretty easy to break in to, so i don't think i'd try that. i'm not sure what else to suggest.

 

Thank you again Julie for all your suggestions. I do think Oreo would get into those hinged feeders quite easily. In the meantime, I haven't given up on the feeder because I think it was those beef liver pure bites that drove him crazy. I have since put the chicken pure bites in the dishes and he is much more relaxed. Also I am having someone come over to see the machine to possibly make it work better: now the rotation device doesn't work. I'll see what this guy comes up with and go from there . If he can get it to work better, I would put some frozen raw food in a couple of the slots as they rotate through. I'll keep you posted on where this is going ... possibly back to the drawing board. Linelle

 

How are things going with Oreo the Foodie? Have you figured out a way to keep him from eating all the food at once? :lol:

 

Hello again KPassa,
It's lovely to hear from you. Oreo did in fact figure out that rotating feeder in no time flat but I think it was the smell of the liver PureBites that drove him insane. When I put in chicken PureBites he was more relaxed and for the past two nights I have put in each of the five slots a little of his raw food. He gets a little something on the hour from 1AM till 5AM - so far so good. I originally thought the feeder was broken but it was Oreo who pushed the mechanism off its tract. Will see how this all plays out but it does feel better knowing he gets some food at night. In the meantime, what really drives me crazy is the fact he doesn't seem to feel full at all. I find myself wondering how others cope with their foodies who never seem to be full even after they just ate. This is a cat who free fed for 15 years and is now having to deal with controlled feeds . Oreo seems to be crying and restless looking for food on most days and particularly after his 6 PMPS. This constant meowing and restless behaviour makes it difficult to enjoy him. Have you had any experience with a foodie ? Thanks . Linelle

 

Hi Linelle and sugardude Oreo and welcome to the FDMB. No ideas from me on how to keep Oreo satisfied with his food intake but I wanted to say hi anyway.

Oreo's appetite will be diminished as the insulin dose gets balanced better for his needs. My foster cat Wink was eating 11-13 ounces at first but is now down to 6-7 ounces.

I think the raw food you are feeding is low carb. The only ingredient in there that I see that would add some carb content is the liver. I'd stick with feeding that food for now.

Where do you live? Sounds like, from reading through some of your posts, you might be up in Canada.

 

Not much advice from me, either! :lol: I was dealing with a growing kitten who ate twice as much as an adult to begin with, plus had a ravenous appetite from unregulated diabetes. The one time I let Michelangelo truly free-feed, he consumed upwards of 600 calories in one day when he was still a little 5 pound, 6-month-old. What I ended up doing was giving him unlimited access, but portion-controlled it, only putting a little bit out at a time. One thing that worked well was I started mixing in water with the food. His eating amount decreased overnight as well as his water consumption. If you're not already doing that, I would suggest you start adding as much water to Oreo's food as he'll allow. There's a tipping point with Mikey that if I add too much water, he won't eat it till it dries out a bit and is less watery.

You might also want to read this thread on feeding kitties as much as they want that might be helpful.

 

You guys are "on it". Wow, I think I hit the Jackpot with two answers to my question ASAP. Kpassa I have in fact started to mix water with his food to stretch it out so to speak and I do think I could perhaps add even more because Oreo seems to inhale whatever is in his dish. I do wish he would find a mouse when he is outside one day for that extra bonus of protein. I did try your thread suggestion but it said something about an error- thank you anyway for taking the time/energy to do this for me. I suspect if I put down his food allotment for the day ,it would be gone in about 20 seconds. With this portion control he has lost a little weight going from 17 lbs to now, as of today, 15 lbs.9 ounces. Now that he has a feeder in the night, he is in fact getting a couple of extra ounces a day. I don't think I can cut him back any more during the day because he'd drive me and anyone else who will listen to him, crazy looking for that endless supply of food. He currently get 6.5 ounces daily and has been getting that amount all along since I started to care for him with all the details involved looking after an elderly, obese,diabetic cat. Just to be clear with respect to his food, I thought he may be getting a little constipated so I added a bit of the Fancy Feast to the slurry - one small tin of Fancy Feast added to a 3 day raw supply.

And my thanks you to Deb and Wink. Absolutely ,when Oreo's numbers are in the green zone, there are moments when he actually has his old loveable pre diabetic self back; it's these moments that make this whole process quite exciting.

I am writing this from my home in Toronto, Canada . My thanks to you both.

 

Looking at your SS and reading your comments. Nice and thorough! Thanks. I do have one question. What does the abbreviation BAR mean on the SS? I'm pretty sure it does not stand for Bachelor of Architecture :lol: , but must be an abbreviation for something.

What meter are you using? Human like a Bayer Counter or a pet specific one like the Alphatrak? Sorry, I did not find a mention of which meter you are using in the post. Probably missed it somewhere.

If you add the meter you used and the type of insulin to your user control panel, profile, edit signature, it will be there on each post and it would help us out a bit.

 

Hi again Deb and Wink ,
Dr Pierson said to put BAR on his chart if he is Bright, Alert, and Responsive and/or ATG for Ain't That Great; I suppose a few words tells a better story. In Oreo's case it should mean Bright, Alert and Ravenous ... As for a meter, I am using a NANO Accuchek - a human one. I've got it down now and it only needs a little blood. The meter waits for quite a long time for the blood. I didn't want to use something that only gave me 5 seconds to get a reading. That's the plus side. The negative side is the cost of the strips and as you know, if you don't get the blood on that first try, you need to use another strip. I am using Lantus . As for user control panel ??? My son got some sort of info on something for me. I'll have to get him to help with this other info as well.

 

I think I like the Bright, Alert, and Ravenous explanation better. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Thanks for clueing me in.

Here are some detailed, step by step directions on updating the user control panel, edit signature to help out you and your son when he has a chance to get the information in there for you.

 

Ooo! I like the idea of BAR and ATG! I might start incorporating them into my spreadsheet. :thumbup

 

he's hungry partially because as an uncontrolled diabetic he's not getting the nutrients from what he's eating as well as he was before. so it takes more calories to get the same amount of calories metabolized into his system. the sugar floating about in his blood that you are measuring is the energy that fuels his body, floating about and not able to get into his cells. he's also hungry because he's losing weight.

are you trying to get him to lose weight? because cats cat get extremely sick if they lose weight too quickly. weight loss that is planned has to be very slow. the risk of too quick weight loss is called fatty liver, or feline hepatic lipidosis. if you mean him to lose weight, it has to be done very slowly. i don't know over what length of time is that he's lost the 1.5lbs. i'll check with someone who has experience with this, but the recommended weight loss is very slow. i'll find out the recommended oz/week that is a safe rate of loss and get back to you.

i would immediately let him eat enough that his weight stabilizes. it's important.

 

i sent a message to Karrie/Maverick who is very experienced on cat weight loss. i asked her what the safe rate of weight loss is, if the cat needs to lose weight. here is her answer:

i told her his what his weight loss is and she says:

hope this all helps you! please keep asking if you need more help. there is an unbelievable wealth of cat health experience among the various people here.

 

Again some wonderful information from a variety of sources ; those who commented on the BAR and ATG you can thank Dr Pierson for that and I'm glad I was able to pass something useful on to you people who have been so generous with your time and information. Deb and Wink, although my son is like trying to herd cats, he'll help me with that panel info today.

KPassa- how great it is to have a few letters that can speak volumes about our cat's daily progress. Having said that, it is important to have everyone understand the language otherwise we could be madly off in all directions with wild guessing and assumptions. And,I could have lots of fun with these letters but ....

Julie and Punkin ,hello again ,and as usual, you, along with these others, continue with thoughtful responses. I have incorporated Oreo's weight from the vet's office, I think,on my SS; I believe he was 17 lbs. Since we adopted Oreo on August 16/13, I was weighing him on our less than accurate home scale (in one day he would weigh in with a weight that looked suspiciously like a Sumo wrestler and a few hours later he would be a few pounds lighter). I purchased a salter baby scale . Since then, I've been weighing him once a week and now with this added info from Kerrie Maverick I will weigh more often. Dr Pierson is aware of his weight.

Hope this addresses each of your responses. Thank you all.

 

Since you mention some constipation, 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon of plain psyllium powder may be added to the food to help with that. Bonus is that it also provides some bulk which may help the cat feel more full.

See Feline Constipatio for additional ideas.

 

Hello BJM,
Thank you for this information with respect to a possible constipation issue. Oreo is an in door out door cat which makes it difficult to truly assess whether or not he has constipation. Having said that, I do see feces in his litter box some days not others; apparently this can be normal for those on a raw diet. I started to add some Fancy Feast to his raw and he has had more frequent bowel movements in his litter box. I did check out your information on the link provided and does that Laxese sound remarkable based on the testimonials - if you can believe them. Do you know of anyone who has actually used the stuff? Dr Lisa also writes about her use of psyllium powder in her web site. I'll watch what happens with the added Fancy Feast to the raw going forward. I also wondered whether the Fancy Feast would add a bit more bulk to the raw diet as well; the Fancy Feast seems more densely packed.