New, Scared, and Confused in NYC.

My 12 year male Blue was diagnosed with diabetes Thursday June 3rd. I am still trying to adjust to everything, make the transition, and feeling every emotion possible. Couple things I read on the site that I am confused/concerned about. 1. I was taught (and charged $120) to inject the insulin into the scruff of his neck. However, I just read that that isn't a good place. 2. Don't buy prescription dry food. Why? I bought wet to feed him when I am going to give him his shot, and dry food to keep a little out to snack on during the day (which my vet told me it was good for diabetics to have snacks like that). I also bought w/d and he seems to love it. 3. My cat is on prozinc insulin and unless I totally missed something, I didn't see it mentioned. Anyone has any experience with it? 4. I almost feel like because he has to monitored that I am supposed to be home all the time and feel bad for just having to go to work, did anyone else go through this? I am only 25 and this is my first pet on my own. Because of my love for Blue, I will do what the vet tells me. HOWEVER, I want to make sure that this vet is providing the best care possible for him and not trying to make money. Does anyone have any advice? I would love to hear you! Thank you!

Alexia and Blue

 

Hi Alexa, and welcome to you and to Blue.

> 1. I was taught (and charged $120) to inject the insulin into the scruff of his neck. However, I just read that that
> isn't a good place.

The scruff of the neck is the traditional location to inject insulin in cats, and many cats do fine that way. However, injecting into some other sites allows better absorption of the insulin. Adjusting to diabetes is going to be trying for both you and Blue. Blue's body has to start adjusting to getting insulin again, which will take a week or two. And you're going to be adjusting to giving insulin and, at some point, will probably end up pinching too hard or bruising or something similar (most of us do sometime in those first days). I'd suggest continuing to inject in the scruff of the neck for the next week or two then, when you're both handling things better, think about changing the injection spot to somewhere where it might be absorbed better.

ETA: The scruff of the next has a fair amount of loose(r) skin to play around with. It's usually a bit harder to shoot in the other locations, so the scruff is a good starting place.


> 2. Don't buy prescription dry food. Why? I bought wet to feed him when I am going to give him his shot, and dry food to
> keep a little out to snack on during the day (which my vet told me it was good for diabetics to have snacks like that). I
> also bought w/d and he seems to love it.

Because dry foods contain a high amount of carbohydrates, and carbohydrates raise blood sugar levels. It's like feeding nothing but pizza and ice cream to a human diabetic. If you switch to a low-carb wet food (either canned or raw), then Blue's blood sugar levels will go down. When his blood sugar levels go down, he needs less insulin, and you greatly improve his chances of going into remission. That's a state where his diabetes is controlled solely through diet -- no need to give insulin at all. It's the best possible state, both for Blue's health and for your wallet.

ETA: You can leave canned food out for Blue during the day or night. Most of us just leave it in the bowl. Some folks use a timed feeder. And a few will freeze part of the can and put that out, leaving the defrosting process to work as a sort of natural 'timer'.


> 3. My cat is on prozinc insulin and unless I totally missed something, I didn't see it mentioned. Anyone has any
> experience with it?

ProZinc is a replacement for Idexx's PZI-Vet insulin. You can find folks using ProZinc in the PZI forum. May I ask how many units you give Blue, and how often?


> 4. I almost feel like because he has to monitored that I am supposed to be home all the time and feel bad for just
> having to go to work, did anyone else go through this?

Yeah, we all go through this. The points where you need to do testing are before you give each shot; that'll tell you whether it's actually *safe* to give insulin. You also want to see what the lowest point his blood sugar goes to after giving insulin (the nadir); going too low at nadir is not good and can sometimes be an emergency. I'm not sure what the nadir of PZI is; I'd guess somewhere around 6-8 hours after shooting, although every cat is different.

What I would suggest is always doing the pre-shot test, and grabbing additional tests where you can (if you can grab some tests around nadir, that'd be great.) until a day when you can a blood sugar curve. A blood sugar curve is when you get the pre-shot, then test the blood sugar every two hours until it's time for the next shot. (Some folks will test every hour around where they expect the nadir to be -- for example, if they suspect nadir is around hour 7, they might test hourly from hours 5-8.) If you put the test results into a spreadsheet, it becomes easier to tell how well Blue is reacting to the insulin and to see what adjustments might need to be made.


> Because of my love for Blue, I will do what the vet tells me. HOWEVER, I want to make sure that this vet is providing
> the best care possible for him and not trying to make money.

Well, a lot of cats did well on PZI-Vet and ProZinc is a the marketed replacement for PZI-Vet. Since ProZinc is a relatively new insulin (been on the market for 8 or 9 months), your vet isn't completely ignorant about feline diabetes. (That's actually saying something, as we get a fair number of vets who *are* pretty ignorant about FD.) And don't diss your vet for recommending the dry D/M food -- for decades, the pet food companies have been conducting 'independent studies' that 'prove' that their foods are 'the best' for whatever disease they're supposed to treat. Since there're no studies proving the opposite, the vets are putting their faith in the 'science' they're being constantly exposed to.


It seems like you've already read the main points about controlling feline diabetes; if you've any other questions, please ask!!

-- Jean and her Gwyn

 

Alexia
Welcome,
JJ answered your questions very well so I will only add a little to what she posted.

Does Blue have any other health issues?

Dry food is the worst possible thing to feed a cat; especially one who's diabetic. The carb content is far too high. Have you had the chance to view Janet & Binky's food charts? Try to stick to the foods that are 7 carbs or below. Many vets recommend the use of expensive prescription diets. Unfortunately, generally accepted ideas about how to treat fd, have not caught up to the newest studies about feeding low carb. Even my vet has only adopted the low-carb approach this year. I can tell you from experience that it makes all the difference. We have been in remission since early Feb; and even my non-diabetic cat is much healthier now that she's been on an all wet lc diet.

Did your vet teach you how to home test? This is as important as learning about injections and diet.

Prozinc is a good insulin, and there are many here who have great success with it. Several of us have had kitties who have gone into remission using it; combined with a low-carb, wet diet.

Please come post in the pzi forum for dosing guidance from experienced users.

In the beginning, it can be very overwhelming to learn all about the disease. We have all been where you are, and with a little support from the wonderful people on fdmb, you will be well on your way to a healthier kitty in no time. This disease is very manageable. Most people here work. Its hard to leave and not worry about how your cat is doing while you are not home. These feelings are normal; and with learning to hometest, and tricks for feeding while you are away, things will be just fine. Please continue to post questions, and visit us over in the pzi insulin support group.

 

Hi and welcome,

Yes, that first week or two is really scary and stressful. There's so much to learn and you're so worried about doing exactly the right thing... it will get easier though and it doesn't take too long before it becomes routine.

The others seem to have covered the basics, so I won't repeat...

Hang in there, it gets better.
Odiesmom

 

Thank you so much, those are all extremely, extremely helpful answers. I can already tell that was the right decision to join.

So with dry food, I have a couple of questions as well. The reason why I bought it was because I have always left a little bit out for him to nibble on, so I didn't want to suddenly changed everything so quickly. He has been been HUGE on the dry food and I only really fill the small bowl everything 3 days. Is that still a problem? Also, about the wet only diet, w/d is good or bad for this? Those practicing the wet food only, I know that you feed twice a day with the shots, so how much are you giving?

Blue is on 1 unit a day, twice a day. The good news is, his water intake and amount of urine have already changed dramatically. So with success like that, should I still consider maybe changing the injection site? Last night he started acting more like this old, extremely cuddle bug self again. The only physical thing I have noticed is he catches himself a lot when standing still. And now his paws kinda slide on the kitchen floor, sounds silly, but scared me the first morning. Anyone else experience this when adjusting?

He goes back to the vet on Thursday at 2 (his nadir-thank you for the vocabulary!) to have his blood sugar tested to see if that is good amount of insulin for him. And no, I have not been taught home testing. Blood or urine.

The only health issue is a skin allergy to fleas-he is allergic. But he is an indoor cat.

I do have an emergency kit that I have made for him that hangs next to his litter box. It has instructions-in case I forget due to panic-a little travel bottle filled with Karo syrup, a needless syringe, and the instructions also have the vet's office, vet's cell, and a 24 hour emergency center written down, so that everything I need is in one place if anything were to ever go wrong. My roommates have also been briefed on all that.

I can't wait to hear more from you all, you have been so incredibly helpful! We thank you!

Alexia and Blue

 

You have received lots of good info so far. Here are my additions

1 it is actually recommended to shoot insulin in the flank area rather than scruff. Why. Because most vaccinations are given in scruff and flank area is a less used place. Plus it will absorb better. When I get to work I will link the wikipedia page that explanations and has pics.

Injection sites

http://www.felinediabetes.com/injections.htm

2. Are you home testing. I see you are going to vet thursday for what? So he can bg test and tell you if this is working? The thing is you will never see a true picture of what is happening if you don't home test.

once you get past the fear of poking blue's ear. You will see just how easy it is.

If the vet tells you not to home test. - he is wrong
If he says you must use animal meter - he is wrong

You must home test as it is the only way you will know how the insulin is doing. A human meter works just fine for testing on cats. And is a lot cheaper and easier to. Get supplies. Animal meter supplies are only obtained from the vet.

3. Food. I also had dry food addicts and it was a challenge to get them off it. If you visit dr lisa's site (http://www.catinfo.org). She has all kinds of tips to transition your cat.

You can free feed wet food (I do). I just add extra water to the wet food to keep oit moist throughout the day. My cats are grazers. And I am at work all day so this works for us.

I see you are in ny. I work @ 33rd & 10th. Where are you loctated? I just got a stash of meter kits in and would be happy to give you one and show u how to home test. The meter kits I got for free and were going to send to cindy & mousie in CA. But your local and why send it to ca just to have her mail it to you in ny.

I will pm you my work number and if you want to talk call. Just look at the top of your screen and you will see that you have a private message. Click on it.

 

We have a few experienced board members in NYC and hopefully they will see this thread

The others have answered your questions...so just remember that knowledge is power, that you CAN do this and that your cat can be just fine!

Jen

 

> So with dry food, I have a couple of questions as well. The reason why I bought it was because I have always left a little
> bit out for him to nibble on, so I didn't want to suddenly changed everything so quickly. He has been been HUGE on the
> dry food and I only really fill the small bowl everything 3 days. Is that still a problem? Also, about the wet only diet, w/d
> is good or bad for this?

Any dry food can spike BG levels. You can find Janet and Binky's food charts here; the charts list the protein / fat / carb content for many of the foods commercially available in the US. If you check the food charts, you'll see that W/D dry is 37% carbs, and that W/D canned is 25-26% carbs (depends on whether it's the chicken formula or not). We generally recommend that (unless there are other health issues present) diabetics eat foods that are less than 10% carbs, and some folks prefer even lower carbs.

As an example of how much carbs affect BG levels and insulin needs: my Gwyn had a whole host of health issues that often precluded feeding certain types of foods, and we often used Prescription Diet A/D as her base food. A/D is 13% carbs. As things evolved, we were (eventually) able to switch her base food to Wellness Chicken, which is 3% carbs. Within a week, Gwyn had dropped from needing four units of insulin twice a day to needing just 2 units of insulin twice a day. Seriously, your best chance for getting Blue into remission is to switch to a low-carb wet diet.


> Those practicing the wet food only, I know that you feed twice a day with the shots, so how much are you giving?

Gwyn weighed 8-10 pounds for most of her life, and she usually ate about 6 ounces of canned food a day. We free-fed; we'd put down half a can in the morning and the other half in the evening.

During this initial period, Blue will probably eat more than what he'll eventually settle into. There are two reasons for that. The first is that he'll be weaning himself off the carbs. Let's face it, when you switch from eating pizza all the time to eating salad, the first couple weeks are rough: your stomach is telling you that it's hungry, even when it's not.

The second reason is that cats (and humans) need insulin to properly digest their food. Since Blue's body doesn't have enough insulin, he can't get the full nutrition his food is supposed to provide -- his body is telling him that he's starving and should eat more. As he adjusts to both the wet food diet and to getting insulin, his food needs will decrease.

For this initial period, I'd suggest giving Blue as much food as he wants. You can put out a full can of A/D in the morning and see how much remains in the evening, then the next day, try leaving out however much he ate the day before. Many of us who free-feed just leave the food out. Some folks will freeze part of the can, and then put the frozen bit out out as well. For example, if Blue was eating half a can during the day, you might leave 1/4 can out direct from the can, and leave another 1/4 can out frozen. Blue will eat the straight-from-the-can bit first then, by the time he's done with that, the frozen chuck will have defrosted and he'll have 'fresh' canned food to eat.


> Blue is on 1 unit a day, twice a day. The good news is, his water intake and amount of urine have already changed
> dramatically. So with success like that, should I still consider maybe changing the injection site? Last night he started
> acting more like this old, extremely cuddle bug self again.

This is good; it shows that the insulin is working with him. And starting at one unit twice a day is perfect. Sometimes we have vets that treat cats like small dogs and have folks do 'wrong' things like start at four units once a day or other weird things.

Changing the injection site means that the insulin will work more effectively, which means that you can use less insulin and save money. But some cats just don't have a lot of loose skin to work with in the alternate sites; the scruff is a decent place to start because it's usually got plenty of loose skin to work with, and it's big enough that if you bruise one area you can move to a different section. And, let's face it: we're all pretty ham-handed initially, kinda jabbing the needle in too forcefully, scared we're missing the injection. If you do that in the sides, the cat may object


> The only physical thing I have noticed is he catches himself a lot when standing still. And now his paws kinda slide
> on the kitchen floor, sounds silly, but scared me the first morning. Anyone else experience this when adjusting?

This sounds like diabetic neuropathy. In cats, it primarily manifests in hind leg weakness; the paws will slide sideways and, in severe cases, the cat will walk on it's hocks instead of it's toes. You can see an illustration of a plantigrade stance here. (Note that that's an illustration of a severe case; less severe cases will involve walking lower on the hocks than normal, but not with the hocks flat on the floor.)

In cats, diabetic neuropathy will generally heal itself once the diabetes is under control. Some folks will give their cats methylcobalamin (the methyl form of vitamin B-12 -- *not* cyanacobalamin, the regular form of B-12). If your cat's diabetes is unregulated or under-regulated, methylcobalamin may help in slowing the progression of diabetic neuropathy and, once the diabetes is under control, it may help speed the healing.


> He goes back to the vet on Thursday at 2 (his nadir-thank you for the vocabulary!) to have his blood sugar tested to see
> if that is good amount of insulin for him.

The test results may not be as useful as you're hoping. Firstly, a lot of cats are stressed when they go to the vet's and, when they're stressed, their blood sugar levels increase. So a blood sugar level reading at the vet's is often higher than the same reading would be at home. This can lead to people giving too much insulin. And also, if you switch Blue to a low-carb diet, that'll lead to him needing less insulin as well. I'm not saying *not* to get his BG levels tested at the vet's, just not to rely on those results as an absolute indicator of how much insulin to give Blue.

If you switch Blue to a low-carb food, *please* learn to home-test BG levels and check in here for dosing advice.


> And no, I have not been taught home testing. Blood or urine.

Okay. I know this is all a tremendously steep learning curve, but here's some more info for you

Urine testing: two of the things you can test urine for are ketones and sugar levels. Ketones are a not-common but still-possible side effect of unregulated or under-regulated diabetes. If they are present, ketones can indicate the beginning of diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA), which is generally A Very Bad Thing. Low levels of ketones may be treatable at home; high levels of ketones frequently require an expensive stay at a 24-hour care facility. You can read more about ketones here.

You test for ketones by dipping ketosix in fresh urine; if the stick changes color, it indicates the presence of ketones and gives an idea of how many are present. Since a fresh bottle of ketostix costs less than $20, most of us look on it as a form of insurance, so that we can detect and treat ketones at low levels and treat them (hopefully) inexpensively. You generally only need to test for ketones when your cat is unregulated or under-regulated.

You can also test urine for sugar levels, and it will give an indication as to what the cat's sugar levels have been over the past several hours. The problem is that testing the sugar levels through urine is less accurate. From the Pet Diabetes wikia:

Home blood sugar testing will tell you what the cat's blood sugar levels are *right then*, letting you know whether it's safe to give insulin and how much. I can also pretty much guarantee that, at some point in time, you're going notice Blue acting a little oddly and wonder if Blue's blood sugar levels are too high or too low. If you learn how to home-test, you'll be able to tell immediately if there's a problem, without having to see the vet. It can also be useful in detecting and treating hypoglycemia, if that ever occurs.


> I do have an emergency kit that I have made for him that hangs next to his litter box. It has instructions-in case I
> forget due to panic-a little travel bottle filled with Karo syrup, a needless syringe, and the instructions also have the
> vet's office, vet's cell, and a 24 hour emergency center written down, so that everything I need is in one place if
> anything were to ever go wrong. My roommates have also been briefed on all that.

That's wonderful, that you've assembled a kit *and* instructions *and* briefed your roommates!

I'm not sure where you got the info on treating hypos (here or at the vet's). If you got it elsewhere, you may want to scroll down to the 'Jump To' list at the bottom of the page and visit the Health Links forum. There're two posts there for treating hypos. The first is Melissa and Popcorn's list of symptoms on recognising hypos, and how to treat them. The second is Jojo and Bunny's hypo toolkit list -- everything you might need for treating a hypo at home or, in severe cases, to stabilise your cat long enough to get him to an emergency vet.

If you'd like to learn how to home-test, the Health Links forum also has a 'Hometesting Links and Tips' post, with hints and links to videos and such. As mentioned, we also have members in NYC who may be able to show how to home-test in person and, if they're convenient to you, I see that Hillary & Maui have already offered


> I can't wait to hear more from you all, you have been so incredibly helpful! We thank you!

You're more than welcome; we're just paying forward the help other folks have given us

-- Jean and her Gwyn

 

Hi Alexia and Blue and Welcome to FDMB. You've received a lot of great advice so far. I know this is probably making your head spin... just remember to breathe and know that everything will work out.

One thing I'd like to mention that is extremely important in the beginning stages of FD. The food switch to low carb. If and when you're ready to do this. You must read this first. This will require you to home test, so you can be aware if Blue should ever go Hypo. I am so sorry this all sounds so scary. I was in your shoes three months ago. But it does really get easier as you learn and communicate with the folks on this board. Never feel that you're asking a crazy question... always ask if you're not sure cause we're here to help. Hugs to Blue. cat_pet_icon

 

Again, EXTREMELY helpful.

That food chart is great. The one cost thing I was worried about in all this was the prescription food, but it looks like a lot, a lot of every day cat food is under 10% carbs. That definitely helps so much.

Thank you Michelle for the quote. My concern is that he is only on two units a day, so there isn't much room for lessening it.

Should I just start in the flank or should I talk to my vet about it?

Neuropathy, is this something that I should be scared of?

So I just gave Blue his shot and suddenly he tucks his front leg up and won't put it down and then acts wobbley like he is drunk. I gave him Karo syrup and called the vet but he said that he doesn't know what is going on because if it were hypoglycemia it wouldn't come into play right after a shot. He said maybe something neurological is going on. I can't afford more testing but I love my cat more than anything. Does anyone have experience with this? Sorry to go to a normal line of questioning but I took a break to give him his shot and this happened. I am scared and stressed. The worst part is that I leave the country a week from tomorrow and I know I am going to worried sick about him the whole time. Is there any advice on this?

 

Not sure why the reaction to the shot. How and where exactly did you give it?

You can reduce the dose to .5 or one unit two times a day. But the best way to know if this is the right thing to do is to hometest. Otherwise, you are literally shooting in the dark.

 

I was taught in the scruff, pull up on the skin and inject into the skin where it is tight but not muscle. The vet told me to reduce to .5 as well until he sees him. I don't have anything to do a home test with.

 

Do you know any diabetics that might let you borrow their meter and some strips tonight? I think if you look up higher on your thread, Hillary is in NYC and offered a free meter and help with hometesting. Not sure where you are and if you could catch up with her tonight. She left you a private message. Look up in the left hand corner where it says NEW MESSAGES. Click on that and you will see her message.

We can't be sure what happened with the shot but testing would certainly give you some info. It could be just a cat thing. Other than his leg, is he acting normally?

 

Hi Alexia

Has he returned to normal? Is he using that leg now?

 

I did. I have her work number, and sent her a message.

The only time he has acted like this is an hour before the shot and an hour or two after. He is COMPLETELY normal other than that. I mean his paws slide around on the hardwood floor now when they didn't before but that is about it. I wish I had someone to go to the vet with me that was experienced so that I didn't feel so helpless.

Yes, he is normal now.

 

I honestly don't know what to think. I don't think that there is something neurological wrong with him because a week ago he had never acted like this. I don't know.

 

Hi ALexia

I'm sorry, I don't understand. He is wobbly for two hours (pre and post shot) twice a day, every day, since you started insulin on Friday? From your post I thought this was a one-time thing that just happened? And can you describe what you mean by wobbly? Does he seem weak, or he slides and falls, or he goes in a circle, or cross his legs in front, or not seem to see and then bumps into things, etc?

Check your PMs again -- I work in Manhattan too.

 

Jess is a vet tech so she may be able to help - with the leg issue and with the hometesting. You are in good hands.

 

Jess, I sent you a detailed PM. I hope that it helps and thank you so much for your time. I really, really appreciate it.

 

I decided to post it on here as well, in case it might be able to help someone else in the future.

One time he acted weird about an hour and a half before the shot. I called the 24 vet, because it was at 5am, and they told me to skip his morning shot and I did. The other times it is after the shot. It was happened maybe 3 times after the shot. Tonight he tucked his leg and kinda fell over. When he stood his back legs would cross and he kept laying down but his hind legs wouldn't really lay down normally. The other time it was as if he was drunk, stumbling. He does seem a little weak but more like he is out of it. Hasn't bumped into anything, front legs never crossed, and he seems to be able to hear just fine. The best way I can describe it is like a drunk person. I mean acted weird before he was diagnosed last week, I thought because he wasn't feeling well and is older but he has never acted like this, that is why I don't think that there is anything neurologically wrong with him. I am not sure. My vet isn't the friendliest with me either so I don't want to feel pressured into doing something. Is that enough information?

 

It really helps to have a good vet (or even a great vet) when you're dealing with a chronically ill pet. If you're not that comfortable with your current vet, you may want to consider looking for another.

 

Would you be able to get a video of this, even just from your digital camera or cell phone? Does he seem to be 'dazed' at all, even for a few seconds? The difference is important -- he could be trying to move normally and unable to, or he could be feeling faint and then briefly lose control. It's strange, either way, but it's not normal so someone needs to figure it out (this doesn't have to be expensive). Being able to test his BG at home during these times is very important so at least a fluctuation in BG can be ruled out as a reason.

I agree with Deanie--you need to have a vet that you are very comfortable with and who is willing to do some reasonable 'hand-holding' when you need it. If you PM me what part of the city/boroughs you live in, I may know of a more personable vet in that area.

 

Hi, Although Blue is on 1unit twice a day, so was my Prudence. Within 36 hours of switching to low carb canned food... I was already lowering my dose. You can look at her spreadsheet. I've just read that your vet said to go to 0.5 units. Here's a photo of syringes with 1/2 unit markings etc. I am not sure which syringes you are using. I may have missed that info on another posting? I hope this helps. If you are looking for meters. I use the ReliOn Micro from Walmart. You can only get it at Walmart and the test strips are called the ReliOn Confirm/micro Blood glucose test strips.The meter was about $10 and the strips run around $20 for 50 of them. I like this meter because you only need a very tiny amount of blood to get a reading.

We are all here to help you when you're ready to home test, but I feel that you should do this soon. IMO - sounds like Blue had a hypo moment today. We can all help you learn how to test his ears etc.

Very importand. This photo is using U100 syringes converting the U40 insulin, so PLEASE DO NOT make the mistake and think that the 0.4 mark on the photo is what you need to go by. I am assuming that you are using the U40 syringes? That 0.4 mark is actually = to the 1 units that you were giving. This photo is ONLY for you if you switch to the U100 syringes. Please ask question if you are unsure of anything, ok?

 

I am on the U40's for 12 units or less. Can he be having a hypo moment that quickly after his shot?

 

Hello to you and Blue. This is our 2st week with our Trey. I am home testing and it is not so bad now but it is very important to do this. Trey has been up and down all week and still not sure what we are doing but the people here are great. We started out on Lantus 3 units twice a day so yesterday we went to 1 unit and 2twice a day .Today we did 2 units cause he BG was 18@ 7pm,16@ 12am and 18@ 7am so we are trying 2 units and we will do a curve today. I should not be telling you this because I am so green to this yet. Just want you to know you are not alone. I would stick to the scruff of the neck for injections because we know he can`t feel it or it don`t bother him. He is really good now at letting us prick his ear don`t think he likes it but is ok with us cause he gets some tuna. He was a dry food kitty and loved it took me a week of cutting back and now 4 weeks later he dosen`t even look for it. His coat is so nice and healthy looking and that is nothing to say the least of our litter box Poops not as messy and not as much pee and he don`t have gas like he use too.He was a big boy lost 2lbs and still 17lbs but you can really see it. Our Trey looks better every day. I hope we make it to when he is in remission and prayers going out to you for the same. Talk to my vet later hope she is not upset that we cut his units back we will see Later new friend in cat lovers Kath &Trey

 

It is very difficult to know what is going on. But if anyone can help ypou fogure it out. Its Jess. She is great and knows what she is doing.

Where in ny re you. I get in the office by 8:30 and will call you then. I can get you a meter starter and show you how to test. The meters I have are bayer contours. It only comes with 10 strips. Sop you will need to pick up strips for it and lancets too as they don't provide many of those either

I will call you and we can talk further. I will give you a small shopping list so you can get ready to home test. The most expensive item will be the strips. I suggest you buy some locally so you have them and then order online after that.

Try not to worry we will do what we can to help. And jess may know a good vet close to you too.

 

Alexa,

I just wanted to pop in and see how you and Blue are doing.

I posted on another thread yesterday that my kitty Ali had just been diagnosed over the weekend.

I know that you and I are both scared and probably hovering (since we are most likely very good kitty mamas but Ali's first and second shots went well. Our night went well (although I did set the alarm to get up and check on him every two hours.

Soon I'll be off to Walmart to pick up the home testing supplies.

Although I probably can't help much (since I'm still learning myself) feel free to PM off-board if you'd like to share some newbie moral support.

Everyone here on the board has been great.

Ali and I literally would not have made it without you yesterday. We felt so helpless and alone.

Best of blessings to you both!

Leslie (in New Mexico)

 

Yes. If the insulin is too high for Blue's system, he can go hypo. Even 0.2 can make a cat go hypo, so it's best to test when they are showing signs. That's why it is so IMPORTANT to read that link I posted about making the food switch. There are Very Critical Points. Here's the link again http://www.catinfo.org/felinediabetes.htm#Very_Critical_Points

I am so glad Hillary can call you. That helps a ton! Try to get a spreadsheet up soon, ok? This will help you a lot. ;-)

Hi Leslie and Welcome to FDMB! If you can get a speadsheet up as well... that would be great. Same goes with you as far as asking any questions. You two are doing great! :YMHUG:

 

Okay we went to the vet today and he was given a neurological exam...

GOOD NEWS!! He passed! Such a relief!
Bad news- the vet isn't quite sure what is causing it but he did test Blue's blood sugar and he was at 409. So we are back to one unit again. We go in again on Thursday during his peak to have him tested then as well to see if he needs more or not.

Good news- The vet must have been having a bad day or something on the day when Blue was diagnosed, because today he was a lot more patient with me and seemed happy to answer the questions that I had from my research. He also seemed to think it was great that I joined here!

Good news- The vet doesn't have a problem, as I know some of yours did, with home testing.
Bad news- He said his only concern that pricking Blue and drawing blood from him on a regular basis might effect my relationship with him and Blue might not trust me. What is everyone's experience with that?

Good news- He is on board with my decision to cut out dry food and do a low carb diet.
Bad news- He thinks that's W/D.
So dry food has been taken away. Also, I did print out the wet food listing and go to the store and got the low carb Friskies and Blue devoured it! I haven't seen him eat wet food like that in a long time. Hopefully this will help since his blood sugar is so high still and on Thursday when we go in they won't tell me he needs more or maybe I can cut back again. Fingers crossed.

Blue is back to one unit, just gave it to him and he is acting just fine. I wonder if the behavior, since he did just eat a lot, was caused because he hadn't eaten enough? I am just so happy that he didn't act like he did last night with this shot. AND I am so happy that the vet doesn't think that it is neurological and that I actually enjoyed my visit with him today. Hopefully more good things to come and that this is just one of many steps in the right direction.

Thank you so much to Hillary and Jess, I wouldn't have made it through the last 24 hours without you.

Michelle, I am going to print that out and show it to my vet when we go back in on Thursday. Definitely something to be aware of, thank you. And what is a spreadsheet?

Leslie, DEFINITELY!

 

That all is sounding really good. About your vet's idea about hometesting. The majority of us have found that hometesting (and the treats that come after each poke) bring our cats closer and deepen the relationship. It's as though they understand we are helping them feel better. So, I would just tell your vet you will chance some bad feelings.

(The problem with taking him in to the vet to check the peak is that the number is likely to be inflated, and not a good number to base a dose on.) Most cats are stressed at the vet (noises, smells, the ride in the car....) and stress raises bg levels. And if you get those numbers at home, it will save you lots of money. You can just fax your numbers to the vet for dosage help.

 

I know that the stress level can raise the levels, but stress alone can't get him up to 409 can it? I knew stress had something to do with it, but that high?

And I am going to start home testing, I agree that it makes sense. I mean a person who was diabetic would test before giving themselves a shot, so why not do that with your cat?

 

depends on the cat.

if i test Mousie and let's say get a 150 and moments later someone rings the doorbell at the house, she hides quicker than you know what, i tell them i'm not interested in what they are selling and get rid of them, find Mousie and test her again in less than 30 minutes, she can be close to 300.

mind you she comes down off that 300 pretty quick too, when she relaxes

 

The other part of the equation, Alexia, is that if he is 100 points higher at the vet than at home (for example), the vet will set the dosage based on the number he gets. Then you take him home, he is 100 points lower and you give the same amount of insulin. That sets you up for some possibly lower numbers than you would like - too much insulin.

 

On a normal day, how often are you hometesting? Before the scheduled shots? And what types of treats are diabetic friendly?

Cindy-how do you then decide the dosage if she is at 300 but you know because of stress? That is definitely a good lesson for me to learn. And is there a chart or something I can get from the vet that will let me know depending on the reading how much insulin to give?

 

If things are going fine, on a normal day, you would probably test before the morning shot, near his nadir (with ProZinc usually around 5 -6 hours hours after the shot) and before the evening shot. This way, you know am and pm that it is safe to give the shot. The nadir shows you how well the insulin is working. If he is going too low at the nadir, it's your signal to lower the dose.

After a week or so on insulin, it is good to do a curve. You take a test every 2 hours or so to track exactly what the insulin is doing.

Lo carb treats. We love Bonito flakes and freeze dried salmon (available at PetSmart) and just plain boiled chicken breast cut up in small pieces.

 

Alexia,

Here an explanation of how to set-up a spreadsheet and link it to your signature:

Spreadsheet setup instructions

The spreadsheet is color-coded for anyone helping to take a quick look and see what's going on. We all link it to our signature so when you post a question, the bg and shot info is all there.

I wouldn't worry about what your vet said regarding your kitty resenting the testing, and you for doing it. Most cats come to love test time because it is associated with extra lovin' and treats.

As far as dosing guidance, people post in the insulin support groups. In your case PZI, stop by and say hello.

 

> On a normal day, how often are you hometesting? Before the scheduled shots?

Always before the scheduled shots. In these early days, you want to gather as much data as possible. If you're home anywhere near nadir, try to get a test in, to see how low he goes. If you won't be home near nadir, try to get a test in either before you leave or as soon as you get home, so you might have an idea of how low he went. And you'll want to do a curve sometime. I'm still concerned that two units may be too much for him.

Also, ISTR that you were concerned about being able to accurately measure one unit or a half unit. What type of syringe are you using? If you're using a 1cc or 0.5cc syringe, next time try picking up some 0.3cc syringes. And ask for ones with half-unit markings. You can find them at Hocks online (see the link at the top of the page), or at WalMart (I use their 31 gauge, 0.3cc shorts.)


> And what types of treats are diabetic friendly?

If you go to the Health Links forum, there's a post there with a list of low-carb treats near the top of the page. You can also find links to Janet and Binky's food charts (in the nutrition thread), the hypo signs and symptoms and treatment post, the hypo toolkit post, etc.


> And is there a chart or something I can get from the vet that will let me know depending on the reading how
> much insulin to give?

There's no chart; each cat reacts differently to insulin. What you're doing these days is gathering the data to successfully treat *your* cat. What you'll want to track right now is: pre-shot BG levels, time you gave insulin, how much insulin you gave, and any post-shot readings you can collect. Once we see how your cat reacts to the insulin, we can give you some feedback on dosing adjustments.

 

Hi Alexia, I am glad to hear that Blue is doing better, but I have to say that I am worried a bit about you going back to 1.0 unit after Blue having that strange reaction. Please please please know that his numbers will be lower at home vs. having his blood sugar tested at the vet. I am also concerned about you going straight to l/c canned food right now without testing him at home. Did you read that last link I attached with my posting? With Blue being stressed at the vet and giving you a false reading on #'s. Going to 1.0unit and switching to l/c food without testing would have me nailbite_smile I am not trying to scare you kiddo, but part of me just wants you to understand how important making these changes can effect Blue.

I see that there are a lot of Folks that gave you good advice about TFS - Test blood sugar then feed then shoot. I hope you can find time tomorrow to get a spreadsheet up, so we can help you with his numbers. I will check on you guys tomorrow. Hugs to Blue cat_pet_icon

BTW - Just something to think about. I know every cat is different, but I wanted to kind of give you an idea. Prudence is 8.5lbs When i switched to just l/c food. She went from 1 unit to 0.5 in two days. The 0.5 was just a bit short of what she needed, so I went to 0.8 for 4 day. By the 5th day she had hit a low of 52 at +6 (meaning 6 hours after I gave her shot.) I have no idea what her blood sugar was at +4? it could of been in the 40's anyway... That's why it's important to test as much as you can in the beginning, you want to have an idea how the insulin is working for Blue.

Have you looked at any of the spreadsheets at the bottom of each persons post?

 

Look I know every cat is different, but I think most people here will chime in that this has been a major bonding experience with their cat. Give animals some credit, I'm know Max eventually realised that Mom was trying to make him feel better, our relationship has never been this close. He will put his head on my leg and purr happily now when i test. He loves the strokes, the warm sock, the attention and the treats...how could he not trust me?

 

Hey Alexia, How's it going over there? Give us an update as soon as you can, ok?

I have to agree with Supermax about our cats bonding even closer to us now. They do pick up on our energies and they know we are helping them. It's a shame that your vet told you what he did. ohmygod_smile
He should of told you if anything... try to communicate with Blue by talking to him as you're getting ready to test etc. It's one thing to grab your cat and poke his ears vs. talking softly and explaining what you're doing. May sound a little crazy, but they do appreciate it. confused_cat I always told Pru what a good girl she is and kissed her whole head! cat_pet_icon

 

Alexia,

Please don't listen to the vet about home testing damaging the relationship with your cat. If you go about the way others here have advised, you will be amazed at how easy it is, and how much Blue will look forward to the tests. The calm approach, along with the treats and cuddles or stroking after, will work like a charm. Mr Tinkles follows me when he sees the treat container, lays right down on the counter, purring, and waits (sometimes impatiently) for me to finish testing so he can have his treat. He is in no hurry to run away after, either. I don't usually have to even hold anything but his ear.

I use cooked meats, cut into small pieces, as treats.

I've only been doing this for about 5 weeks. It doesn't take long for it to become just part of the routine!

Please do start home testing, you won't be sorry....it could save Blue's life. Please read the thread about the kitty who would have gone hypo last night without home testing.

 

I am DEFINITELY going to start home testing. I am meeting with Hillary tomorrow who is kind enough to give me a meter and is going to teach me how, as well as going to the vet. I understand that this levels will be higher at the vet but I am also off on Friday so I am going to be able to test me all day. That is why I started to take away the dry food.
He is doing MUCH better today with the new food as well, I don't think he liked the old food and maybe he was having this strange reaction because he wasn't eating enough. I have to say though that that could be my fault. My vet stressed how important it was that Blue be eating before a shot, so I made the mistake of giving it to him during his feeding which I think made him not want to eat. What I started last night and what seems to be working great is having a meal together. I give him his food, then make mine and when he walks away from his, I give him his shot and then he ends up going back to his food for more a couple minutes later. I need to do that on his terms I think. I am excited about hometesting and getting this undercontrol.
I have read about the l/c dieting and that is why I am starting hometesting.
The one thing that scares me is that I leave the country for 2 and a half weeks in a week. I want to be confident that he is going to be okay when I am gone. My roommate Tyler, who Blue also has a great relationship with and we call Uncle Tyler, is going to have my FDMB log in, so if June 17th-July 2nd you see a posting from me, it is probably Tyler who needs help.
I will definitely start a spreadsheet when I have got all the home testing stuff together.
The needles we use are UltiCare 3/10cc 29 gauge x 1/2" u-40 latex free low dose. That is all the info on it and I hope that that helps.

 

So to give an update as to where we are tonight- Blue did great tonight! I think he is starting to get the hang of it and realize that this makes him feel better. Tonight I gave him his food in the kitchen and let him start eating as I prepared his shot. I was just standing at the counter and the next thing I know he rubs against my leg and sit down at my feet looking at me. Then I sat on the floor with him to give him a sweet rub down and then his shot, gave it to him, rubbed him down some more, and then he just got up and went back to eating- JUST LIKE THAT. I hope this means he is figuring it out! He has been during fine all night. I am even starting to see the old him again. He is becoming vocal with me again, talks to me when I walk into the room, he is jumping on the bed again, and even fell fast asleep next to me while literally hold hands with me. Tomorrow Hillary and I are meeting up and she is teaching me how to home test & make a spreadsheet and right now I couldn't be more confident that we can do this. I will let you know how the vet visit goes and hopefully tomorrow night I will have a home test to report.

Also, I put a link to Blue's catbook page in my signature in case anyone wanted to meet him via the internet.

 

It's wonderful that you're learning to hometest, and even better that Blue's feeling better and recognises that this needle thing is helping him feel better.


> The needles we use are UltiCare 3/10cc 29 gauge x 1/2" u-40 latex free low dose.

Once you get back from your trip, you may want to consider switching to u100 syringes. I'm not advocating you doing that now, because Tyler will be taking care of Blue for the next little bit and there's no need to confuse things unnecessarily. However, when you're comfortable doing so, you might think about it.

The benefits are that u100 syringes are easy to find at any pharmacy, are usually more comfortable for the cat, and are cheaper to buy. The downside is that you *must* convert the amount of u40 insulin you're giving into it's u100 equivalent. You do that by multiplying the number of units by 2.5; so, to give 1 unit of u40 insulin in a u100 syringe, you would draw the insulin to the 2.5 unit mark. Or you can use this here conversion chart to make things easy.

Another benefit to using u100 syringes with u40 insulin is that it's easier to make small adjustments to the amount of insulin you need to give. For example, in a u40 syringe, it would be close to impossible to accurately draw up 0.2 units of insulin; if you use a u100 syringe, you just draw up to the 0.5 unit line. If accurate micro-dosing is something you might need, look for syringes with half-unit markings (half-unit markings aren't available in all brands / sizes).

 

So I am waiting at the vet now. I tried to home test before we came but I kept getting E 2, not enough blood. Little guy wad patient until the end. Any advice?

Also they have me a print out, there's been a recall on iams proactive health canned cat and kitten food all varieties, so if you know anyone using it, let them know!

 

BLUE TESTED AT 182 AT THE VET!!!!!

The vet said that I was doing everything right and that he saw no need to change his dosage. So that is incredible news.

Hopefully with the advice of the board, I will be drawing more blood tonight for his preshot test and I can start a spreadsheet!

 

Alexia,

You are such a good mom to your Blue. I've been where you are - so worried when you get that first diagnosis of diabetes. Now, months later, the shots are routine .... and my cat Earl doesn't even seem to notice that he is getting them. Home testing, also has become routine. And don't let the vet tell you that it will ruin your relationship with Blue. Like the other posters here, my relationship with Earl only improved with the home testing. We make the home testing a little "love fest" for Earl. He gets brushed (which he just loves) and cuddled and told what a wonderful blood donor he is!! We home test on the same chair every time, and all we have to do is raise our voices and call Earl - usually by saying "we need your blood, Earl". And he'll come to us, jump on the chair and start purring. Not exactly the picture your vet painted for you. But that is the reality of home testing when loving and cuddling your Blue through the process.

It's clear that you love your Blue, and he is lucky to have such a conscientious mother. While there is a lot to absorb at first, in time, this is going to become routine for you.

This is a great site that will help you immensely to get through this.

 

First thing to keep in mind is to warm up the ear; that increases the blood circulation. A lot of folks use rice socks (baby socks or something cut down to similar size), which they warm up in the microwave. The sock warms up the ear and, provides you with a backstop to prick against. I usually just gave a mice ear massage to get the same effect. Also, if your cat is sleeping on one side, go for the ear that was 'down', not the ear that was up: the 'down' ear will be warmer and have more blood.

If the problem is seeing where to poke, try shining a flashlight through the ear to light it up. If you have a small enough flashlight, you can use *that* as a backstop to prick against. (Think of your backstop material like ... a cutting board. If you held a piece of lettuce in the air by two fingers and tried to cut it with a knife, you wouldn't have much success. If you put the lettuce on a cutting board, you can pin it, poke it, slice it, whatever.) Some folks use cotton balls or a couple / few layers of tissue or toilet paper. Using a backstop will also prevent you from accidently poking through the ear and drawing your own blood (it happens).

If you're using a lancet pen, that may be contributing to the problem; each cat has a different setting that works best for them, in that it penetrates far enough to draw enough blood, but not so far that it causes extraneous discomfort. So if you're using the lancet pen, you might want to try free-handing the lancet.

If the blood is 'melting' into the fur, try applying a tiny bit of Vaseline to the ear where you intend to poke; that'll help the blood bead up. If the problem is head movement, try scraping the blood onto your fingernail and testing from there. You can also 'milk' the ear: put one finger just a little bit up-ear and the other just a little down-ear from the poke and slide them toward the poke. Do that several times and hopefully more blood will come out. Also, some folks will double-prick close together to try to get enough blood.

When you're setting up your poke-station, you want to be ready to test as quickly and efficiently as possible. For myself, this meant having the test strip unwrapped and slid into the slot in the meter, but not so far in that the meter recognised that the strip was there. In an effort to preserve the battery, my meter would automatically turn itself off a minute after the test strip was inserted. So if I missed getting blood during that minute, I had to pull the test strip out of the meter, re-insert it, and wait for the meter to be ready again. By the time that happened and I found the poke-site again, the blood was usually gone. Similarly, if I *didn't* put the strip into the meter, I'd have to stop and put the strip in (or, worse, have to unwrap the strip and then insert it), the blood was usually gone, melted off into the ear-fur. But if I put the strip into the meter, but not all the way, once I had blood, I could hold the ear with one hand, grab the meter with the other and slide the test strip the rest of the way in.


After you've got blood on the test strip, remember to put pressure on both sides of the poke-site for a minute; that'll help minimise bruising and make Blue more likely to cooperate with future pokes. Also, talk to her gently and praise her during these tests, and always give her a treat afterward, regardless of whether you got a successful test or not. Treats and cuddles help encourage future cooperation

Also -- is Hillary supposed to be coming over this evening? She can help you with this; she's been at it a while now and helped show several other folks how to test.

 

Alexia,

182 at the vet is a great number. How long after the shot? If you think there was any kind of vet stress/travel stress, the number could be quite a bit lower at home. Please don't give a shot tonight until you have a number. It is possible that the number will be a no shoot number. In general, we say new diabetics should be over 200 to receive insulin.

As far as your hometesting, did you sure warm the ear up well? It's like their ears learn to bleed and we have to get the blood moving around with heat. Be sure the sock is very warm (but not uncomfortably hot) and leave it on for 15 - 30 seconds. Have you put the flashlight behind his ear so you know where you are aiming? You can put a dab of vaseline where you want to shoot.

Keep trying. You'll get it!

 

Thanks for the advice! I will be trying again in an hour to an hour and a half. I will post the results afterwards!

When Blue tested at 182 he was at +6.5. He didn't seem too stressed out but you never know. I am hoping that I can get a read tonight. So if under 200, don't give him the insulin? He is already on the l/c wet food, so I definitely think that that is why his numbers have gotten this good. I agree with not shooting him blindly as well. So since at +6.5 he was at 182 if I can't get a reading, no insulin and if he is under 200, no insulin? I am trying to get the feel of things. We are on ProZinc.

 

The general rule, Alexia, is that you don't shoot under 200. You wait 30 minutes and test again. If he is over 200, then you shoot. But come back on tonight when you have a number and get advice for that specific number. Any chance Hillary will be there tonight to help?

So the 182 was his nadir (lowest point in the cycle). What we don't know is if he was stressed and if that number is artifically inflated by stress. So it's possibly not a "real" number. Does that make sense?

The good and bad news is that this is the tricky part. He is responding to the diet and the insulin and it is likely that his numbers may be bouncing around some. You want to give him enough insulin to keep his bg levels down but you don't want to give him too much. That's why it's called a sugar dance!

 

Okay that makes sense. So even under 200, I don't shoot at all verses lowering it and then test again in 30 minutes. Hillary is not coming by tonight, I met with her today and talked to her on the phone after the unsuccessful hometest and vet visit. I am flying solo now.

No, I totally understand about the 182, that is what is even more exciting to me is that it could be lower, making the diet already working.

Now I just need to get my nerves under control, after an unsuccessful one earlier, I am nervous about this one. I will repost my results!

 

SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!

Outside of the ear with vaseline! He tested at 235!

So that close to 200, do I shot? Should I give him half a unit? What next?

 

Why do you put vaseline on his ear I had my first time by myself tonight too YEAH needed tuna but I did it hate needles LOL Kath & Trey

 

Earlier today I tried the inside of the ear and I drew blood, but not enough. So I read that a lot of people have success with the outside of the ear. The reason I used the vaseline is because since there is hair on the back of the ear the fur with absorb the blood. But with the vaseline there it beaded up perfectly. The first strip it didn't take because I think I got too close to the vaseline and it got on it, but I got a 2nd bead and it tested perfectly! Outside of the ear, on the edge, down the middle, with vaseline worked with one upward prick. I hope that that helps!

 

Fantastic! Welcome to the vampire club. You got it - vaseline helps the blood bead up, and it shows you exactly where you want to poke. Great job.

1 unit would probably be fine, but he did have that strange reaction. If you want to be perfectly safe, you could give 1/2 unit (.5ml) Why don't you put PZI Dosage advice needed and start a new thread? We used PZI but it was before it was PZI zinc. I would feel better if others agree with me.

 

I posted under the PZI thread about it. I felt uncomfortable doing 1u being so close to 200 so I did .5u and I am going to test me at his peak. Since I switched his diet, he hasn't reacted the way he had before, so hopefully that continues. And I started a spreadsheet, it is just the first day so it might not help but it is there!

 

Going to test and will try vaseline too thanks LOL Kath

 

Congratulations on the first home test!!
It just gets easier and easier from here.


Odiesmom

 

I think .5 is a great choice. And a nadir number would be wonderful.

Have you stopped to think how much you have learned in a few days? Isn't it amazing? Not only do you have a whole new vocabulary, but you are getting blood from a cat! Take time to pat yourself on the back. Great job!

 

Not good tonight tried 4 times and no blood then when I got blood the strip didn`t work shaking hate needles will start again when hubby is home in about 2 hours Thanks anyway Kath

 

Kath,

With the vaseline, make sure you put an extremely thin layer, just enough to kind of smooth the fur, otherwise the vaseline gets in the way of the test strip being able to "sip" the blood in.

If it's too hard to get the blood into the test strip from the ear, you can scrape the blood onto your fingernail, release the cat, and then test from your fingernail.

A few other things you can try are:

- Heat the ear beforehand to make it bleed better. Take a thin sock, put 1/2 cup of dry rice in it, knot the sock. Heat the sock in the microwave until it's quite warm (but not hot enough to burn). Hold the sock to the cat's ear for like 30 seconds before testing.

- Prick twice very close to each other, so that the blood from the two pricks makes enough of a drop

- Use a flashlight under the ear so that you have something hard to press against, and it helps you see exactly where the vein is.

- Are you trying to prick with the pen device, or just using the lancet free-hand? I find freehand much easier 'cause you can see exactly what you're doing.

- Try pricking lower along the side of the ear rather than towards the tip.

Good luck!
Odiesmom

ps - I also wrap my cat in a towel to contain all his paws and make him less wiggly

 

Odiesmom and Sue, thank you so much!!

Kath,

Here is what worked for us. First, I bought a warm sock filled with oatmeal-heat for 30-40 seconds- on his ear for about a minute. Then I put a thin layer of vaseline-and I got it in the first test strip and had to use a second. I pricked a little in from the edge about in the middle of the ear, the top is definitely harder. I free hand it, scarier but actually easier. I also prick in an upward motion, coming straight in you are more likely to accidentally piece their ear, but the upward motion is just enough to poke them for blood but not enough to cause them pain. Once I got the blood in the meter and a reading I squeezed the spot with some tissue to stop the bleeding and put on pain relief neosporin. Hopefully that helps you out!

 

I have not read the others posting yet, but wanted to say one thing before you log off, ok I am glad Blue is doing much better. As far as the 182 at the vet. That number could be lower minus the stress he may have been under. I agree, definitely check his bg before you decide to shoot tonight, ok :YMHUG: I'll be back to post more after I read what everyone else wrote. ;-)

BTW - The relion micro meter is AWESOME for getting the smallest amount of BLOOD!!!!!!! :lol: That's why I had mentioned it before.