Ser - "WAS" Hypo' and question

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Sergei Waddell

Sergei Waddell

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Given that our questionable meter readings(see the post from Thursday below), we went with the vets subscribed 1u Humulin NPH 2x/day in spite of tonight's pre-injection reading. Ser is right, we really are idiots!

Thur 3:45pm - 143(pre injection), 5:45p - 63
Fri 5am - 128 - did not take a post injection reading
Fri 5pm - 113(pre injection), 7:20 Hypo obviously - he lost bladder, vomitted, nearly passed out - 19 and scarry. We scrambled for honey, and a baby syringe, water, the tuna, then high carb food. Did not take another reading as he was responding well, but an hr later 19 again. More honey, more tuna, more high carb.

What is the best way to manage this at +4rhr after 1u? - I imagine the insulin is peaking now, and into the next few hrs -
Also - how long after food should I wait to take a reading, and how often there after?

Previoius post -
I visited the doctor Tuesday. I gave more blood because Doc thought the results from my previous test were 'too' normal, and I thought it wold be a good idea to have my thyroid checked out because I still just don't feel like eating. Oh and get this - it turns out I have fleas! Just a few doc said, but holy smokes how could my roommates have missed that? I've never been treated for fleas and this is their first exposure to them(in 15yrs) Idiots! They asked about tape worm - Doc said that is out of the question - wrong symptoms. He said my heartbeat was a little elevated, gave me more fluids and sent me home. The only bit of food I could get i down was Beechnut chicken, and it was not very much. Vomitting has stopped, but I really am just not interested in food or water. I've had one bm, and urinated only a few times in the past 3 days. Needless to say, I'm not feeling great.

The thyroid results came back yesterday- normal, but the glucose was much higher than the readings we had been getting at home - 245 vs 100(+/- 15). Doc suggested asking the lab for AC1 test. They had enough of my blood anyway.... so we went for it. These results came back today and Doc said this confirmes that I am diabetic.

I started on 1U of insulin 2x a day this afternoon. I just hope to get my appetite back soon. My roommates are getting concerned. Plus I don't like the idea of these two administering insulin when I am not interested in eating, AND their meter doesn't seem to be very accurate....

Ser
 
Re: Ser - Hyper' and question

whoa! i didn't even read your whole post and i'm thinking not many yet realize there's a problem here. in your subject line can you change that to HYPO instead of Hyper (hyper means high numbers like 400+) and you might consider adding the 911 icon as 19 is near death low.

get some syrup in him asap. if vet is close by call them asap. test again. he needs to be much higher than that 19 ASAP.

now i'll go read the rest of the post. if you are over the low numbers already, disregard the above :smile:
 
Re: Ser - Hyper' and question

ok, read the rest of your post. the only thing i wonder is if your doc's number was the fructosamine number or not? if it was, that does not equal the number you'd get on a BG meter. the fructosamine is an average over a period of time, not an idea as to current BG levels.
 
Re: Ser - Hyper' and question

i still don't understand it..does this cat need insulin?
 
Re: Ser - Hyper' and question

The post from Thursday explains why we are questioning the accuracy of our meter. It is a 2+yr old, Bayer Contour. After Ser's 2nd reading of 19, I questioned again the accuracy of the meter. I used it to measure mine, and got 139.... Not really sure what that means, but I'm certain Ser's reading was much lower than where we want it... Any thoughts on the meter would be appreciated.

Another little bit of info on Ser - again Thursday's post also explains he was found to have fleas. We've been together for 15yrs, since he was just a kitten. He, and his sissy are pampered, loved, cooed over, ect... They have never previously had fleas nor have they ever been treated. My wife and I have reasoned that they must have picked them up at their routine checkup in June. Tonight prior to his hypo this evening, we were doing a routine nail clipping and found that Ser has some sort of abcess on his front paw and is favoring it terribly. Now with Ser going so low 19 after 1u, we are wondering if he is diabetic at all. Could his high readings be a result of stress????
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

ser can NOT take an insulin shot on an empty tummy.
we really need to clarify what's going on.
i'm going to try to write your #'s in an understandble way. if i can.

OK i can't.

get your kitty to an er, or get that karo, syrup, honey moving. your in the DANGER ZONE!
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

what is he reading NOW?
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

Thanks for the immediacy! We just popped another ear - 35, went for the Corn Syrup. Will read again in another.... -?
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

well he is at +4 with 35...go slow on the syrup as Hum. is likely peaking out and we don't want ser throwing up. test in 20 minutes. we need to see a consecutive list of his bgs.
obviously can't do that now...but we need to see that. NO, NONE NADA insulin in the morning, regardless of #. he will be hyper sensitive to insulin and have a lot of sugar you gave him in him. let it go.
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

another test in 15 minutes.

given that you also had physical hypo symptoms, i definitely would trust your meter readings right now. if he was running around playing, then i would question them, but the urinating, vomiting, and nearly passing out are classic hypo symptoms.

let's take care of the numbers right now and then we can go over causes etc but in short, yes, stress, pain, etc....can cause higher BG numbers
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

you have been shooting into #'s that did not require a shot. did the vet not set a limit for you...like not to shoot below 200 or 150?
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

Just to clarify - Ser's stomach was not empty. He is having other issues, and has been struggling to keep food down. One er visit, and 2 vet visits - they are stumped.

His readings - Ser was in my opinion falsely diagnosed diabetic 2yrs ago. He was on 1u for about 1.5 wks, went hypo, and we bought a meter and controlled it with diet since. So honestly - I'm still a newby with translating....

He took two big mouthfuls of Syrup..... Its been about 5min. I see a response to wait 20, for another reading.
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

remember, the syrup should increase BG faster but won't stay in system so it's important to get some hi carb wet food into him, too (how about mixing some syrup into hi carb wet food and giving it to him that way). the wet food itself takes a little longer to take effect but should keep number up better.
you're on the right track. good job, and keep checking every 20 minutes til you see 2 consecutive readings of at least 70, okay?
 
Re: Ser - Hyper' and question

Cindy + Mousie said:
ok, read the rest of your post. the only thing i wonder is if your doc's number was the fructosamine number or not? if it was, that does not equal the number you'd get on a BG meter. the fructosamine is an average over a period of time, not an idea as to current BG levels.
Click to expand...

Your discription matches the vets - so could a high frutctosamine level be a result of pain/stress?
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

chris in this case it's humulin so it should peak out early. also 1 unit. the problem is the cat did not need a shot. agree we should see a steady surge upward...but i think you can lay off the syrup now and just feed if he'll eat.
the syrup, the amount you gave him..i worry could make him nausues and throw up.
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

no to that question ser, just BEING at the vets could cause stress.
what exactly are his other problems you were talking about.
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

lori and tom said:
no to that question ser, just BEING at the vets could cause stress.
what exactly are his other problems you were talking about.
Click to expand...
No food or drink for days at a time. No BMs. Lethargic. This started Aug 16th with a trip to the ER on the 18th after his vomit turned pink. They administered fluids, and he seemed to rebound after a few days, began eating lightly, and drinking very lightly - still no BMs. Then the entire episode began to repeat after about 6 days. Blood work twice, and an ultrasound.

The poor guy has been put through the mill. This is prob pretty light stuff compared to other posts that I've read on here... and I apologize for being so soft, but he had really been SO HEALTHY until this. I hate to see him like this.
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

10:06 does'nt help us...+? how many hours and minutes since shot.
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

gosh, i have got to go. you need more eyes. i'll try to get them for you before i sign off.
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

49 is improving - take a deep breath - you and Ser are doing great and going to get thru this

Do you have some high carb gravy food? Something that will last longer in the tummy than syrup?

Or mix a little syrup in regular low carb food...
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

stay on line, i advertized with the smarties here. i'm sure they will show up.
see you tomorow i hope.
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

Phoebe_Rusty_Tiggy_Norton said:
49 is improving - take a deep breath - you and Ser are doing great and going to get thru this

Do you have some high carb gravy food? Something that will last longer in the tummy than syrup?

Or mix a little syrup in regular low carb food...
Click to expand...

We started with honey, small quirts of water to wash it down, tuna water then after reading the posts, and remembering that the insulin is still releasing - corn syrup, and began mixing Science Diet Active Longevity with tuna water. He has eaten more in the past 3hrs than he has in the past two weeks. - Seriously. He is resting now, and so far - has not vomited.
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

49 sounds safe but you still want to monitor to make sure it doesn't go back down.

FYI - you do not want to squirt the honey/syrup in the mouth - you want to rub it into the gums.
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

lori and tom said:
well he is at +4 with 35...go slow on the syrup as Hum. is likely peaking out and we don't want ser throwing up. test in 20 minutes. we need to see a consecutive list of his bgs.
obviously can't do that now...but we need to see that. NO, NONE NADA insulin in the morning, regardless of #. he will be hyper sensitive to insulin and have a lot of sugar you gave him in him. let it go.
Click to expand...
Lori, I just went back and read this after stopping at 'go slow on the syrup' the first time....

Thanks! I'm with ya regarding tomorrow's insulin. My wife wants me to throw it out.... I should have known better giving the insulin tonight considering his reading. We've spent over $1200 in vet bills in the past month, and still don't really understand what is going on w/him. We love these cats to death but are so frustrated/concerned that we feel like "what else can I do? At some point I have to trust my vet"....so we went with his instructions.

He has an appt to see the dr in the morning for his foot, and I'm sure folks may point blame at the dr, but I cannot. Like I said - I should have known better.

He was resting, woke for a reading - 50, +6hr 10min, still no vomitting, and is now eating more SciDiet+tuna juice. Is now cleaning his face -yeah!!!
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

Pam and Layla said:
49 sounds safe but you still want to monitor to make sure it doesn't go back down.

FYI - you do not want to squirt the honey/syrup in the mouth - you want to rub it into the gums.
Click to expand...
Thanks - I figured out if I get his mouth open enough I can wipe it on sandy surface of his tongue. We were using the baby syringe for water only. Poor fella has syrup and honey all over his face.
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

that seems to be what happens in these situations. just tell him it helps him to splatter it all over his body as it gets in him quicker thru his hair and makes him feel better. :-D

this is looking better for sure. man, i think the last time i saw a BG as low as 19 the cat was comatose and going to the ER. i think my heart stopped there for a minute when i read that earlier
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

At this point numbers are coming up. You want to get Sergei into the 60s, at least. Feed small amounts of food -- either high carb or a little bit of low carb topped with gravy from HC food or syrup. The syrup will cause numbers to spike up. You need protein (some solid food) to keep the numbers up. You just don't want to feed too much or Sergei will either vomit or refuse food.

You are going to need to keep testing every 20 - 30 min for some time yet. It is very possible that numbers will wobble and drop down as the syrup wears off. Also, with a hypo of this magnitude, low numbers may go well past nadir. Until you see that numbers are above 60 for several hours, I would plan on having a pot of coffee on hand.

FWIW, I use a Contour meter and it's about 1-1/4 years old. It works just fine.

It's possible that the infection in his foot has been brewing for some time and that's what threw his BG numbers into diabetic range. It doesn't explain why his numbers have dropped unless you switched him from HC or dry food to a LC canned diet. (If you are feeding Science Diet it will keep his numbers up -- it's not good food for a cat whether or not he's diabetic.)
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

Cindy + Mousie said:
that seems to be what happens in these situations. just tell him it helps him to splatter it all over his body as it gets in him quicker thru his hair and makes him feel better. :-D

this is looking better for sure. man, i think the last time i saw a BG as low as 19 the cat was comatose and going to the ER. i think my heart stopped there for a minute when i read that earlier
Click to expand...

Our hearts were racing. I was cursing running for the honey, my wife was crying....still makes me sick to my stomach thinking about it....
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

i can imagine.

that was one heck of a catch that's for sure.

i've never had a classic hypo episode in my house, yet, but i've had numbers in the low 30's. can't recall if i've seen the 20's in Mousie. if it hadn't been for testing i never would have known she was that low and had a chance to intervene.

but one morning i got up and she didn't come for her test. finally found her and she was just laying there looking at me, slightly odd like. finally got her to get up and my god she couldn't stand or walk straight. she fell over, spun in circles and just scared the crap out of me. i'm pretty sure my heart stopped at that moment. my first thought was BG levels so i got hold of her and tested her and thankfully her BG was actually high, over 300 if i remember correctly. i think when i saw the 300 number my heart started again and i went into another mode. ended up being an ear infection and a glop of pus on her eardrum throwing off her balance but my god can they scare you that's for sure!
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

Sienne and Gabby said:
At this point numbers are coming up. You want to get Sergei into the 60s, at least. Feed small amounts of food -- either high carb or a little bit of low carb topped with gravy from HC food or syrup. The syrup will cause numbers to spike up. You need protein (some solid food) to keep the numbers up. You just don't want to feed too much or Sergei will either vomit or refuse food.

You are going to need to keep testing every 20 - 30 min for some time yet. It is very possible that numbers will wobble and drop down as the syrup wears off. Also, with a hypo of this magnitude, low numbers may go well past nadir. Until you see that numbers are above 60 for several hours, I would plan on having a pot of coffee on hand.

FWIW, I use a Contour meter and it's about 1-1/4 years old. It works just fine.

It's possible that the infection in his foot has been brewing for some time and that's what threw his BG numbers into diabetic range. It doesn't explain why his numbers have dropped unless you switched him from HC or dry food to a LC canned diet. (If you are feeding Science Diet it will keep his numbers up -- it's not good food for a cat whether or not he's diabetic.)
Click to expand...

He has been on wellness wet, and anova dry for 2 yrs with healthy bgs. The SD was introduced in the past month when he stopped eating. We were just trying anything.... He had been eating little to none of it.
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

Sienne and Gabby said:
At this point numbers are coming up. You want to get Sergei into the 60s, at least. Feed small amounts of food -- either high carb or a little bit of low carb topped with gravy from HC food or syrup. The syrup will cause numbers to spike up. You need protein (some solid food) to keep the numbers up. You just don't want to feed too much or Sergei will either vomit or refuse food.

You are going to need to keep testing every 20 - 30 min for some time yet. It is very possible that numbers will wobble and drop down as the syrup wears off. Also, with a hypo of this magnitude, low numbers may go well past nadir. Until you see that numbers are above 60 for several hours, I would plan on having a pot of coffee on hand.

FWIW, I use a Contour meter and it's about 1-1/4 years old. It works just fine.

It's possible that the infection in his foot has been brewing for some time and that's what threw his BG numbers into diabetic range. It doesn't explain why his numbers have dropped unless you switched him from HC or dry food to a LC canned diet. (If you are feeding Science Diet it will keep his numbers up -- it's not good food for a cat whether or not he's diabetic.)
Click to expand...

You may think this is stupid, and perhaps its just me being hopeful that this is what has caused everything that's been going on with him in the last two months - but when we were clipping his nails tonight, and discovered this abcess on his paw - his attitude changed completely. Like finally - someone noticed! I swear I think he seemed so much less stressed out... I'm praying.
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

someone on this board's cat had a LO for quite a while when she was posting on another board before she joined fdmb. so it's happened but it's certainly not something we look forward to!

glad your kitty is responding to the food. sorry the board has been so bad this evening. it's been hard to get onto this page.

lori, i would not suggest anything on a hypo thread that would not be safe for a cat. i've had plenty of late night hypo experience here, including with your cat tom 3 years ago when he was diabetic.
mixing syrup in wet cat food does get some cats interested in eating and spikes the numbers quickly while the wet food is taking longer to take effect.

looking really good now. any recent BG check?
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

yea!! fantastic number and job well done. hoping you can wait a half hour and test again just to be sure.
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

YAY, just got home and had to see how you and ser were doing.
maybe he was sooo relieved that you finally found his foot problem. smart cat.
i think you have a potentially diet controlled little diabetic there.
i have a feeling things will start to get better real soon.
i'm soooo glad you found us and we can work together on mr. ser.
lori and tom
 
Re: Ser - Hypo' and question

We pulled a vigil. He slept peacefully for a few hrs, woke up pretty hungry; ate and is now taking it easy again. But REALLY favoring his right paw now. Something def going on there....

bg = 112 @ + 10hr26min.

He says "THANKS SO MUCH to everyone!"
and Keith and Robin thank you too!
 
wow, what a night for you guys! I'm glad that there were folks around to help you through it...and you did a wonderful job, too! Just sorry to hear that you had to go through it.

I hope that the vet visit helps your boy out and that once his paw gets fixed up, his numbers go back down and he's OTJ!
 
oh my! What a night for you all .. I'm so glad others were here to help you through it .. I know how scary those low numbers can be. The lowest we found was 24 and that was pretty scary. I can't imagine seeing anything lower! I hope that this foot problem is the cause of the higher sugar numbers and once that get's taken care of, you will have one healthy kitty cat again!
 
UGH, what a night for you guys! thank goodness the night turned out OK.

There are tons of things that can cause high BG, and many of those things can be addressed and no insulin is required as you already know. The food is the big one you already know.

Just from my experience, vet visits definitely affect numbers. My Shadoe goes high but my Oliver goes low, really low, and I have to take food to feed him when he goes to the vet office. He is super well behaved but oh how he hates being there.
It's strange how they are affected, just by stress.

Teeth are another big one. I took Shadoe for her dental, and just by having the cleaning and one bad molar extracted, her numbers came down and her dose also dropped dramatically.

Pancreatitis has caused issues for her as well and she is sick with that right now, high dose and BG resulting.

Constipation is another one I found with Oliver. Until his Xrays, we did not realize that his stool was hanging around in his body too long, so adding a laxative to his foods has sped movement up and his numbers came down after the first big dump.

Infections and most definitely the foot sore could be causes for high BG, so I bet Ser is relieved that you have finally notice the foot issue!

Wouldn't it be great to get the foot fixed up and see that there is no need for insulin at all!
Best of luck for a speedy paw fix and a future of no insulin!
 
I'm glad to see Ser is on the other side of those numbers. Remember -- no insulin this AM.

I'm glad you found the abscess on his paw. Hopefully, this will get taken care of and all will be well.
 
wow, he still stayed pretty low considering all you went through!
glad you caught the paw abscess and hoping he recovers quickly.
 
fantastic am # considering. that is a WORKING pancreas. you did great with him :-D
 
Ser had been doing great for the past 12 days, low bgs - mid ninetys-no insulin, healthy appetite, getting off the dry food, sleeping better. But he vomitted today, and now has no interest in food. This seems to be a cycle that he's been in for the past few months. Two weeks he does great, then a week or two vomitting/not eating.....
The only symptom that has remained constant has been the wheezing.

Any thoughts on flea allergies?????
Keith
 
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