Oslo on Caninsulin - please advise

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and I'm posting about my cat Oslo. He's a 12,5 year-old male and weighs about 14 lbs. He was diagnosed with diabetes in December 2010, with BGs around 486. I switched him to low carb wet food (mostly FF Elegant Medleys). He started Caninsulin on Wednesday January 5th. I know this insulin is not widely used in the US but I'm in Quebec, Canada. He had a BG curve done at the vet and was prescribed 3 units two times a day. I started home testing on January 6th: his SS is in my sig but I don't have many numbers right now as I'm still gathering info.

After reading a lot of posts in FDMB, I am very confused. I gave him 3 units x 2 the first three days as prescribed. After reading the user guide for Caninsulin though, I became concerned that I was giving him too high a dose, so I gave him 1.5 units this morning. His BGs are even higher at + 3 and + 5.

So my biggest question right now is: what do I do? Do I keep him on the 1.5 units x 2 for a few days and see how that goes? Do I go back to 3 units x 2?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Genevieve & Oslo

 

Hi Genevieve and Welcome!

There are several possiblities. One is that Canninsulin (or Vetsulin as it is called in the US) has quality control issues and is not often prescribed by vets: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=311 So it may be that your insulin is just not working.

If you started at 3 units, you may have started over his ideal dose: Rebound So yes, you may need to start over at one unit twice a day. If you do, hold it for about 4 doses to see if it lowers his numbers, testing a lot during that time.

And the food. Check this page: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html Some are okay but others are 12-15% carbs. We try to stay under 10%.

 

Hi Genevieve and Oslo and welcome to FDMB.
Where in Quebec are you? I am in Montreal and my vet started us off on Caninsulin
last year. After about a week or so I went to another vet and switched to Lantus, called Glargine here.

We had wonderful success and with a lot of hard work, Max has been off insulin since
April 2010.

With regards to the food, the Fancy Feast classic flavours are the lowest in carb but you need to be careful in changing his food with a higher dose of insulin.

 

Hi again and thank you both for your replies!

I have to say that I'm still really confused and nervous. I read about Caninsulin's quality control issues after Oslo was started on it. That has only been four days so I don't know if I should stick with it for a few weeks or switch as soon as possible. Since it's the weekend, I'll probably keep Oslo on 1.5 units x 2 and see on Monday.

As for the food, Fancy Feast Elegant Medleys is not my first choice (I do choose flavors below 10% carbs) but it is what he will eat, aside from vet food, which I refuse to give him (w/d was what the vet prescribed). When I first switched him to wet food, I checked Binky's list (and others) and tried Merrick, EVO and Wellness, choosing those around 5% carbs. He would eat those for a meal or two, then refuse to eat them again. I tried raw food (Nature's Variety) and he was insulted. I tried Innova, Nutro, Holistic Select: he doesn't want any. From what I've read on the board, I have a finicky cat! Fancy Feast Elegant Medleys, he practically inhales so I'm keeping him on that until I find something else low(er) carb he likes as much. Does anyone have suggestions? I'd love to feed him Fancy Feast classic but I can't find the low carb ones in the stores around here.

Randi: I'm in Montreal too! What do you feed Max? Do you know where to find Fancy Feast classic flavors? Would you mind telling which vet you're seeing (you can PM me if you prefer)?

Thank you both again!

Genevieve & Oslo

 

Certainly sounds like you have tried on the food, and that you do have a picky cat. Any chance you could mix some really low carb into the higher carb and he might eat it, making it a little lower? It may not matter, but some cats are really carb sensitive and it can influence bg levels.

 

Hi Genevieve,
Welcome to the site!

First thing I would say is to stop using caninsulin. I started on it like Randi and I had horrible numbers, so I also switched to Lantus.
Being in Canada, you are lucky... you can go to the pharmacy and buy Lantus as we don't need any rx. You can get your insulin, syringes U100 for Lantus, all at the pharmacy. You may want to pick up a box of ketostix to test Oslo's urine for ketones since he's got such high BG at the moment.

Lawsuit against Vetsulin Manufacturer
Vetsulin FDAs Warning December 15, 2009

As for the food, what about trying to mix the ff medley with the classic, half and half? Maybe that may work, and it is still alot better than feeding dry food. The vet food is gross; none of my cats would touch it!

Within a week of switching insulin, you will start to see improvements in how Oslo is acting.

 

Thank you Sue! I do think Oslo is carb sensitive because when he was diagnosed in December, his BG was 486. I switched him from dry food to Wellness Chicken (4% carb), and the next day, his BG was 300. So I know lower carb has a big effect on his BGs. I've tried mixing higher carb food with lower, but he doesn't want any after a meal or two. But good news for Oslo! I just came back from a new store where I was able to find some Fancy Feast Classic flavors that seem to be lower in carbs! Yay! I will try those and hopefully that will help his numbers. :smile:

 

Hi Gayle and thank you for your reply!

I'm getting really worried about Oslo being on Caninsulin with all your replies. I'll read up on Lantus and make a decision. I had no idea that I could get Lantus at a pharmacy without a prescription!

Oslo is due for a meal in two hours so I cross my fingers and hope he likes the FF classics.

Off for more reading on Lantus!

Thank you all for your help!

 

You are in Canada; you do NOT need an prescription for any insulins or the syringes or meters and test strips.
In the USA, they need the prescription so many people have to struggle with their vets. Not us; not Canadians.
I am not quite sure what you have locally, but there was Jean Coutu before when I lived in Montreal, of maybe you have Shoppers Drug Mart.

Here is some info I was given awhile ago on the various types of insulin.
You will see that Caninsulin is only an intermediate lasting insulin, meaning that Oslo is running out of insulin before his next shot, so he will be on an roller coaster of BG numbers, and not likely to become regulated.
With a switch to a longer lasting insulin, you have better chances of getting Oslo regulated and possibly even off insulin as has happened to many other cats, including Randi's Max!

Most people are using the long-acting insulins today. Most of the other types are only used by humans or in some cats with special needs (ie. high dose cats with Acro etc.) Many of the short and intermediate insulins have been done away with.
Short acting insulins are usually designated by the letter R (Humalin R, Novalin R) they are never used alone, typically they are given as a bolus at Preshot to bring the BG down quickly in the first few hours of the cycle before the basal insulin (a long acting) begins to take effect. This is used by high dose cats with conditions like Acro or insulin resistant antibodies. It may also be used in an inpatient setting to manage a cat with ketoacidosis.

Intermediate insulins (Lente) are insulins like Vetsulin (Caninsulin) and NPH, some of the human insulins have N in thier name (Humalin N) although some vets are still prescribing them they are becoming less used. Espcially since Vetsulin has been taken off the market in many countries. The more successes with long acting insulins have encouraged many vets to avoid these once typical insulins. Many are however still used with good results in dogs with diabetes (dogs have a metabolism more like humans and these insulins work much longer for them) the animal approved insulin (Vetsulin, in Europe/Canada sold as Caninsulin) was made primarily for dogs.

Long-acting insulins are the synthetic analogs such as Lantus and Levemir. PZI and Prozinc are similar to these however their duration is often somewhat shorter putting them "in between" intermediate and long-acting. Several other long acting insulins are no longer manufactured (Ultratard, Humalin U)

 

Wow, Gayle! Thank you for all that information! I have so much to read and learn. I'll talk to Oslo's vet on Monday. Hopefully, she'll be open to try a long-acting insulin like Lantus. Otherwise, I don't know what I'll do. From what I read, some of you are going against your vet's advice. I wish I had that courage: I'm a nervous mess when it comes to my cats. Getting Lantus would not be a problem since there are many pharmacies around here, but I'm afraid to try regulating him by myself.

 

Well, good news and bad news. He loves the Fancy Feast classic flavor I gave him, but his PMPS is 526. :cry:

 

That number does indeed sync with what was said above about Caninsulin being a short-acting insulin, and not being able to regulate for the entirety of the cycle. Hopefully if you move forward with Lantus (I think it's referred to as Glargine in Canada), the regulation will last a lot longer, and you'll have steadier numbers all day long.

 

Does anyone know where to buy Fancy Feast Classic in Montreal Area??
Please...
Thanks

 

Hi Jamorn!

Have you had trouble finding it?

I buy Fancy Feast Classic (chicken, beef, turkey and giblets, salmon and other fish and seafood) at IGA, Canadian Tire (in the pet food section) and Mondou. Mondou usually has cheaper prices, and you can buy packs of 24. Elsewhere, you can wait for sales to buy a bunch of cans.

Hope that helps!