Newbie - Maine coon 14 yo just diagnosed 4 weeks ago

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sminogue

sminogue

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Newbie - Maine coon 14 yo just diagnosed 4 weeks ago

Hello. Havimg trouble with getting used to ups and downs of readings. Just started testing and it seems my cat Ozzie may only need 1 shot per day. I would perefer to give it in the morning. his reading tonight was 229 Should I wait and see what it is in morning? BTW just caught my dog eating his food so it is quite possible that Ozzie has not been eating much at all for a few days. Will that impact the numbers? His numbers tend to be 400-500 w/o med.
~sue
Happy Holidays
 
Hi Sue,

We need more info. What kind of insulin? What dose? How long has he been on the dose?

It is very unlikely that insulin will work for 24 hours. What might work better is perhaps to lower the dose and get 2 numbers you can shoot 12 hours apart.
 
Hi Sue. He is on PZI 2.5 units twice a day for just over 2 weeks. We originally started with 1.5 but his numbers were not being controlled after a week and then increased to 2 then 2.5 and we were told to do home testing.
 
If the 229 is with no food within the last 2 hours, you could shoot a lower dose. If he has eaten, the food can raise his numbers so you won't be shooting a " true" number. (from now on, when you get a number under 200, wait 20 minutes without feeding and retest)

I think your 2.25 is too high. I would reduce the dose.

Yes, not eating can lower the numbers. You want to make sure he eats.
 
Hi Sue,
That's a pretty stout dose of prozinc.....you said he's been on insulin for about 4 weeks? If he is not eating, you definitely want to shoot less. And like Sue said, it might be best to cut the dose down so that you are able to shoot an equal amount day and night. That will keep insulin in his body more consistently and might get his numbers under control.
Have you been testing him all along? If so, do you have all the numbers you've collected so far. It would be very helpful to us if we could "see" the data and help you make sense of things...

If you have the data, we can show you how to put it in a spreadsheet that would be visible to everyone. It's a great tool in management of feline diabetes.

http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50130
 
Good mornning - and Happy New year!

Last nite I did not give him his dose. It was late, and I was unsure with his numbers and not eating much I thought he might level out. His last shot was at 12-29 with a reading 261. then 12/30 -167, 229- 12/31 - 348. Iwas thinking of going down to 2 units. or less. I have an app that I have been recording data to. I officially started 12/27 but logged all of the vet numbers on their days too.

Love the burrito idea. worked great this morning.
 
Poopy and I welcome you to the best place you could have found for you and Ozzie! cat_pet_icon

Poopy, diagnosed 12/17, is also on ProZinc and our home testing is still in the hit and miss stage so I can't offer a lot of experienced advice as far as dosing. Kudos to your vet suggesting home testing! :RAHCAT

I do understand ProZinc works best on a 12/12 schedule. While Poopy started out weighing 20 lbs prior to diabetes hitting, and lost almost 10 lbs when it hit, we started with 1u twice a day. Not sure if 1.5u was too much to start with or not...since too much can lead to higher numbers from rebound and Ozzie is testing at a pretty low rate 24 hours later considering no shot 12 hours prior. I'd rely on others input here though.

As far as the food goes...I had to make a special spot for the kitty food due to my dogs. I cleared the top shelf on my baker's rack, with a chair nearby for ease of access for the kitties to get to it. This way they aren't on my counters (which they know is a no-no) and the dogs can't get to the food. While Poopy is eating, I putter around the kitchen so I can gauge how much he is eating (he doesn't like me to stand there and watch so I "ignore" him with my puttering). Also, I had to switch foods to a low carb diet, using Binky's list for food ideas, so I can better control the carbs Poopy was getting. What are you feeding Ozzie? Is it wet, dry, low carb? Food can make a huge difference!

Welcome again and keep us posted. :smile:
 
Hi theresa.
He is eating low carb. Freshpet Roasted cross between wet and dry. I emailed the company and the say the carb is at 1.8%. lost the mail to post. I know it is somewhere. He loves it coming off of Friskied lamb and rice for his whole life. so change was difficult. I have the hills dry M/d which is fine but would rather switch to EVO. My dog Stitch is on No grains. and the cat like his food. now the Merrick canned he is not liking. so now I am sticking with a cup of food of fresh pet. He was 18 lbs in July and came down to 9 in november.
and slowly improving to 11.4 now
Where is spell check?

So I think I will give him 2 units now and I guess I should stick with that for 5 days right?
 
I think you can start with that, being careful to watch that his numbers don't go too low. Particularly watch the +6 numbers that they don't dip into the 40s.

I was just posting this to another PZI user who started at 2+units. Our practice is to start low and then increase by small amounts as needed. It is much safer than starting high and hoping to catch low numbers and then reducing.

Hills MD is 13% carbs. We try to stay under 8-10. And it's dry. A vet explains why dry isn't good for cats here: http://www.catinfo.org Here is the food chart we use:
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html


If you would change to all wet, reduce the dose. Our Oliver went down 100 points overnight when we changed from dry to wet.
 
If the foods are below 10% calories from carbs that's great! I know the m/d, dry or wet, is not. Check out Binky's list for carb info. There are lists for both wet and dry. Freshpet isn't on either list but when I check the FreshPet website I am finding grains added to their foods so am not convinced it is as low as <10 carbs. They could be though. :smile:

Carbs break down into sugar, and diabetes is the inability to use sugar as intended. The less carbs we put into our cats, the easier it is to regulate their sugar use with insulin. As has been explained to me...treating a cat for diabetes while still feeding too many carbs is like us trying to regulate our diabetes while eating candy bars.

I'm not experienced enough to say about the dosing. Hopefully someone will be on soon who is experienced and will weigh in. :smile:
 
Thank you for info. I have researched binkys and all the other sites as well I find forums the most helpful. Thank you for your quick responses. I heard the same about M/D. Initially Ozzie was started at 1.5 units.

Is +6 equal to 6 hours after shot or BG testing?
 
I use the +6 after the shot so I can see how the insulin is effecting Poopy's BG. I assume that's how others use it too but could be wrong...never thought to ask! LOL
 
It's 6 hours after the insulin goes in. Teresa is right - in most cats, it is the lowest point of the cycle or nadir. And that number gives you a good indication of how the insulin is working. If that number is under 40, a reduction is needed. All cats are different; some reach their lowest point somewhere between 4-7. Testing over time will give you that info.
 
hello and welcome Sue and Ozzie cat_pet_icon :YMHUG: AND HAPPY NEW YEAR ;-)

welcome to pzi from callie and me, what I would do Sue is start at 1 unit bid and check ozzie's bg as much as you can, it takes a while for kitty to get use to the insulin and when first starting pro zinc the nadir can move around , when callie first started this dance in June hers would be between +3 and +4 now its between + 6 and +8 thats why the bg checks are very good to do it gives you and ideal what the insulin is doing for ozzie, also do you have a hypo kit ready with instruction on how to handle them??? I have one in my kitchen cubboard with print outs on what to do taped on the insides of the doors with higher carb food and treats karo syrup and honey ready to go! I hope I'm not scaring you its just good to have this all ready ;-) cat_pet_icon

I feed callie all Fancy Feast low carb (classic) this works well for her , Sue just take this dance day by day! Ozzie will get use to the ear pokes do you give him treats with the pokes ?? also it is good to check the urine for ketones I get them at walmart , you just catch ozzie when he is using the litter box and either put the strip in the flow of the urine or use a soup laddle and collect the urine and dip the strip lol ! I hope this is helpful to you :YMHUG: again welcome from callie and me!
 
:smile: :smile: I know right thats the only way i could get a urine sample to bring to the vet lol , they gave me this cup of very exspensive littler she wouldn't go in so I used a soup laddle wah la :smile:
 
Welcome SUe and Ozzie,
so very glad you gfound this site. It is filled with so much information that you need
and a wonderful group of people who are here to help you
Shooting a 12/12 cycle is best for Oziie,
you want to keep him in lower number for most of the day
Good luck and come on over the the PZI group for any advice on the isulin or any questions you might have
 
thanks for the nice welcome.

Ok update +4 he is 69. I had given him 2 units 4 hrs ago. So I will check again in 2 hours to make sure he does not go below 40. Thanks for all of the tips. I have the cat area barracaded now. We have an invisable fence for dog but since it is broken the gizmo to keep dog away from food will not work.
 
Good. He is surfing - basically staying at the same number. He could surf into +9 or start back up or go down further. Another test in an hour should give you that info.

Nice job testing today. The info you get will really help you figure out his next dose.
 
Ok so last nite 12 hours post shot his bg was 174 and then this morning after another 12 hours down to 144 which could be with not eating he does not like any of the canned foods

Happy new year
 
These numbers are without insulin? If so, he is surfing along in no shot numbers.

But yes, no food can lower numbers. He needs to eat. Try warming the food till nice and stinky. Mix his favorite treat in it or add tuna juice or Parmesan cheese on top.
 
If he goes too long without eating he will develop other problems. Not sure if this is what the group suggests but IMO it's better to give him something he WILL eat than have him go too long without eating. Cats can't go too long without food as their liver can't cope. Also have you tried him on raw meat? Very fresh raw meat? My kitty is a Maine Coon. He loves raw chicken breast and raw beef (not permitted the latter due to allergies) but it's worth ou trying very fresh pieces of these. My kitty only likes raw if it's fresh.
 
Found the email on roasted Freshpet Feline

The carbohydrates in the Freshpet Select Roasted Meals cat are 1.8% as fed and 4.8% moisture free.



Genevieve Ferrara

Consumer Affairs

Freshpet

400 Plaza Drive

Secaucus, NJ 07094

1-866-789-3737



Become a Freshpet Fan on Facebook
 
I am confused on what to do next :? he just has a BG of 155. What I am thinking is next time he gets above 200 I will only give him 1unit Which I hope will be in the morning.
Everytime I "burrito" him I think of this youtube video hope I can post the link.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/bO4yqZAnB8o[/youtube]http://youtu.be/bO4yqZAnB8o
 
Ha! These guys clearly have way too much free time. :mrgreen:

Is the 155 24 hours since the last shot? Has he eaten today? If he is eating okay, this is great news! If he hasn't eaten, you want to get some kind of food in him.

155 is not a shootable number for a new diabetic. I would continue to test and monitor. At some point he will be high enough to shoot (250-300 range) and you can consider a very reduced dose.
 
48 hours post shot gb is 161. So there is a remission possibility if I can keep him on low carb diet. FRISKIES senior lamb and rice can is his favorite is this a possibility? I am confused on the binky chart.
 
Yea, unfortunately Binky's chart doesn't list all possible foods we could be feeding our fuzzies. :YMSIGH: But it's still a good info chart. :smile: If the food you are feeding him helps him stay on a low BG, and he's eating it, then that works for me. :smile: Wish Poopy would have such low numbers! :lol:

I'd keep an eye on his numbers and I understand we should not shoot when under 200 BG...at least for us newbies. :smile:

Here's hoping Ozzie can be diet controlled! :RAHCAT
 
You certainly have a shot! But you have to be sure it is low carb food.The rice may add extra carbs.

What I did was to take Janet and Binky's list to the store, having highlighted the foods under 8% carbs. Now I just feed FF classics.

If he gets up into the 200 range, it would be wise to give him a tiny dose- probably less than .25 units. A cat off insulin runs from 40-120 with the majority of the time spent in double digits.
 
I would get more numbers. 200 at preshots could mean a nice low nadir. You need mid cycle numbers before increasing. If he is 200 at preshot and 100 or below at nadir, he is regulated. Then time to fine tune with .25 increases.

If you gave one unit this am, please try to get some mid cycle numbers today.
 
Well I do not know why but it seems even when I lower the dose he does not need anymore for three days. This is the trend so far. Is this normal or is it possible he really isnt diabetic or is something else going on. Thyroid came back normal. :?
 
From the app I am using, 195 is average as per App

Date Time Type Event Name Value Units Notes
Jan 8, 2012 8:42 AM BG Before Breakfast 94 mg/dL
Jan 7, 2012 7:44 PM BG Before Dinner 185 mg/dL
Jan 7, 2012 7:56 AM BG Out Of Bed 164 mg/dL
Jan 6, 2012 8:10 PM BG After Dinner 148 mg/dL not eating much?hairball?
Jan 6, 2012 7:57 AM BG Out Of Bed 204 mg/dL give .5
Jan 5, 2012 9:01 PM BG After Dinner 288 mg/dL
Jan 5, 2012 8:12 AM BG Before Breakfast 203 mg/dL
Jan 4, 2012 9:21 PM BG After Dinner 203 mg/dL no shot
Jan 4, 2012 7:22 PM BG Out Of Bed 161 mg/dL
Jan 4, 2012 3:34 PM BG After Lunch 91 mg/dL 6.5 hrs post
Jan 4, 2012 8:55 AM BG After Breakfast 303 mg/dL
Jan 3, 2012 9:12 PM BG Before Bed 360 mg/dL 1u
Jan 3, 2012 2:56 PM BG After Lunch 71 mg/dL 5hours post
Jan 3, 2012 8:06 AM BG Out Of Bed 210 mg/dL 12hours post .5 units
Jan 2, 2012 8:30 PM BG After Dinner 208 mg/dL gave .5 u
Jan 2, 2012 8:16 AM BG Out Of Bed 161 mg/dL 48hourspost shot
Jan 1, 2012 7:59 PM BG After Dinner 155 mg/dL no shot
Jan 1, 2012 10:28 AM BG Before Breakfast 144 mg/dL no shot
Dec 31, 2011 10:15 PM BG After Dinner 174 mg/dL no shot did not eat
Dec 31, 2011 4:40 PM BG Before Dinner 63 mg/dL 6.5 hours post
Dec 31, 2011 2:26 PM BG After Lunch 69 mg/dL 4
Dec 31, 2011 9:13 AM BG Before Breakfast 348 mg/dL gave 2u at 10am
Dec 30, 2011 10:30 PM BG Out Of Bed 229 mg/dL
Dec 30, 2011 8:53 AM BG Before Breakfast 167 mg/dL
Dec 29, 2011 9:17 PM BG After Dinner 261 mg/dL
Dec 29, 2011 9:30 AM BG Out Of Bed 190 mg/dL
Dec 28, 2011 9:10 PM BG Out Of Bed 217 mg/dL
Dec 28, 2011 9:33 AM BG Before Breakfast 351 mg/dL
Dec 27, 2011 9:13 PM BG After Dinner 118 mg/dL
Dec 27, 2011 12:30 PM BG Other 77 mg/dL
Dec 17, 2011 12:15 PM BG Other 429 mg/dL
Dec 10, 2011 12:15 PM BG Other 218 mg/dL
 
So you haven't given any insulin since the 6th? Looking pretty good. We consider a cat in remission if their blood glucose levels stay between 40-120 without insulin, with the majority of the time in double digits, for 2 weeks.

I would continue to monitor and would ask for advice about giving a dose if he gets in the 180-200 range and is clearly rising. You can give him a dose lower than .5 if needed.

Here's hoping he will continue in the lower numbers! :-D
 
Thanks but I dont think I can measure anything less than .5 and that is a guess. Should I just stay at the .5 and see if he "weans" off?
 
sminogue said:
Thanks but I dont think I can measure anything less than .5 and that is a guess. Should I just stay at the .5 and see if he "weans" off?
Click to expand...


Yes, it is difficult. It helps to get clip on magnifier lenses to see more detail. Also, if you very carefully twist the syringe, you can slowly squeeze out a droplet without emptying the syringe. You'll need to practice.

Another option is to use an insulin which is less concentrated, such as ProZinc (U-40, 40 units of insulin in 1 mL) with U-100 syringes, which lets you do 0.2 units every U-100 half unit mark. An additional benefit is ProZinc may dosed based on pre-shot numbers

Or ask you vet for a compounded N insulin at a lower concentration to make it easier to give tiny doses as needed. Caveat: N insulin lasts roughly 6-8 hours in a cat, so its useful for a small dose, occasionaly.
 
I'm still using the u40 syringes and giving partial doses (not full units). It took a bit, but I learned to count the syringe stopped rubber, each width is .2 units on the syringes I use. It takes concentration to see them and mark them. I know it's not ideal, but it's pretty darn close. I have a syringe I mark the partials on and use it as a guide for other shots.
 
Just an update.. Ozzies number have been pretty low. But now I see he has dimentia. I first saw it before he was dx and took him to vet after the first episode to find out he has diabetes. now he doesnt really acknowledge me, doesnt talk, walks in circles not knowing what to do. Has a problem jumping up or down and pretty much stays on the same place of the couch were he used to change his spot 5x per day. So it is sad to watch and my dog is getting jealous of all the attention he gets. Hopefully Ozzie will snap out of it again. It has been 3-4 days :YMSIGH:
 
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