Caught off gaurd w/ Vetsulin recall ...

Hi, my name is Levii and my cat's name is Soccia. He's was diagnosed with diabetes about 7 years ago after starting to suffer from pretty sever muscular neuropothay. Since then he's done generally pretty well EXCEPT for when I've had to change insulins. First time changing from ?? to cansulin (moved to germany) actually went smoothly and he was only taking one shot a day. 2nd time, coming back we had to change to vetsulin (and the combination of that and travel put him into hypo while my wife was transporting him on the road between Omaha and St Louis). Thankfully the tiny town she stopped in in the middle of nowhere, and the random house she chose happened to be a voulenteer firefighter/animal rescue worker and they got him into a vet ASAP. We know the treatment drill, but we've been fortunate to have trustworthy people around us.

Well, I was planning on leaving him on this insulin forever (vetsulin) but when I showed up at the Vet's office on Thursday to pick up my bottle, I find out they'd given it to someone else and gave me some of what they had on hand (one days worth). They also told me (when they tried to order more) that they couldn't get it and I should order it online. Well guess how suprised I was when I found out I couln't get it anymore ... anywhere and I would have to change his insulin this weekend! I'm stuck at a point now where I don't have a lot of faith in the vet since she'd like to put him on another porcine based insulin (Prozinc I believe) that isn't FDA approved either [and it seems animal sources of pancreatic tissue are in short supply] ... I just see this happening again in no time

I've gone through all the research on this site, felipedia and petdiabetes.wikia.com; and though levimir or lantus seem like the best of all choices (esp. for a hard to regulate cat) the insulin/glucose curve of humulin-n seemed the closes to cansulin/vetsulin so I opted to see how we could get it to work for him through the weekend [and of course finances are an issue w/ the others]. Now I'm concerned the short acting nature of it may cause too much of a swing (I know not to base anything on 2 days...but I'd like some educated opinions).

So: for now, here are the starting #s. I'll keep it updated, but I'd like the input of the community. For reference. I'm sampling w/ 1uL of blood from the ear using a lancet on a truetrack glucosemeter.

16 apr: 530 PM BS: "HI" (meaning over 600), gave 1 unit of iu 100 humulin-n
17 apr 0830: pre-shot "Hi", gave 2 units
17 April 4PM BS 383
17Apr 8PM BS 568 gave 2.5 unit (will watch through the midpoint sampling every 3 hours)
*Edit: 17Apr 11PM 425 (had to fight with him some though and prick like 5 time, so it is probably high)
18Apr 8APM BS PreShot: 521, gave 2.5 u
About Soccia: He's a 19lb tabby, he was given to me in 1998 and I believe he was 2 at the time. He was 26 lbs when diagnosed and is 36" from nose to the tip of his tail ... stands about knee high on me and is my wife's 'baby' ... we let him free feed since he gets crazy stressed out if he can see the bottom of his food dish (and with then gorge himself to the point of vomiting), and because of that he's also eating dry iams weight control food (been on it for most of the last 10 years since it's the only thing that he isn't pissy about eating & doesnt' vomit back up)
Thanks, I appreciate the input.
//Levii

 

Re: Caught off gaurd w/ Vetsulin recall ... now stressing!

Reply to myself since I thought it may be pertinant.

Soccia has been on 4.5U of IU40 Vetsulin for the last 2 years. His numbers were still high on a glucose curve (what the vet said), but he was generally a pretty happy and playful old kitty

Thanks again - I'm glad I found this resource. I didn't know how to home test previously, I was always one of those just doing what my vet said and judging if he needed to go back for an adjustment by how he acted. I'd love any input.

 

Re: Caught off gaurd w/ Vetsulin recall ... now stressing!

Hi Levii and Soccia! Welcome to the board. While I can't offer much information in the way of insulin I will try to cross your post to a few other forums on here, and hope that you get some responses!

 

Re: Caught off gaurd w/ Vetsulin recall ... now stressing!

hmmm I see you have already cross posted in the vetsulin forum. I will see if someone from another forum might be able to help answer your questions. I know it is frustrating waiting for advice when you are worried, but hang in there!

 

Re: Caught off gaurd w/ Vetsulin recall ... now stressing!

Hi Levii, Sorry to hear of your problems with the insulins. We had to switch Stu from PZI Vet last fall, when it was discontinued and the supplies ran out. We switched to Lantus and began home-testing of blood glucose and are very glad we did. There are many people on the Lantus forum who switched from Vetsulin (Caninsulin) who will be able to give you sound advice. There are experts in Feline Diabetes on this board who can help you with dosing, and also with finding the appropriate foods for your kitty (it sounds like Soccia is eating a totally inappropriate diet). Be sure to read the informational "sticky" "New to the Group" at the top of the Lantus forum. It has links to the most important things you should know.
I hope that one of our experts will be along soon to help you.

Ella & Stu

 

Re: Caught off gaurd w/ Vetsulin recall ... now stressing!

ProZinc is a good insulin but is not bovine based. It is human recombinant insulin based. Also, Vetsulin and Caninsulin are identical, just different names in different geographic areas.

 

Re: Caught off gaurd w/ Vetsulin recall ... now stressing!

Hi Levii,
Welcome, you are now in the right board.

What insulin were you thinking of using now?
I first started on Caninsulin for Shadoe, but got literally no results, so I switched to Lantus which worked very well. I switched her to Levemir after we found that she was an acro cat.
I adopted another diabetic cat who was on Lantus which I switched to Levemir also, so that I could have the two cats on the same insulin - easier for me.

If you posted on the Lantus board, you will find that there are several others who have switched and they can offer you all sorts of help with the transition including change of syringes and proper dosing.

You can click on the profile and spreadsheet links in my signature to see the info that I have put for my two FD cats.

 

Re: Caught off gaurd w/ Vetsulin recall ... now stressing!

Hi there

just a link for you to read on food

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=115

Dr Lisa's Feline Nutrition will explain a lot about foods,
if making a switch from dry to low carb wet food, you'll want to do it gradually and not cold turkey. VERY IMPORTANT.
Sometimes you may have to experiment with different flavours/varities. It does take time and trial and error. Please read thru her link, lots to learn about cat food and healthier choices. A lot of us if not all of us here went thru the same thing, so you're not alone.

Janet & Binky's food charts will give you a good idea on carb %'s for various brands

My cat Luna, was started on Caninsulin (the Canadian version of Vetsulin), we switched after 2 months to Lantus with good results.
Lots of choices for insulins, Lantus, Levemir, PZI all good choices.
Talk to your vet about options, YOU have the choices out there, much better choices than Vetsulin.

 

Re: Caught off gaurd w/ Vetsulin recall ... now stressing!

Hi Levii, this is the place to get answers to your questions. The people here are really dedicated to their cats and have done a lot of research.

Lantus and Levimir are very similar long acting insulins. Very different from using Vetsulin and a lot of vets aren't up to date in using them. AS for the cost, initially they are a lot higher as you purchase packages of 5 not a single vial. but they will last much longer and actually end up being cheaper than buying from a vet. I found the cheapest price for Lantus at Costco. After i bought it I found a note in the package stating that Levemir was on their recommended formulary and would be much cheaper. ohmygod_smile

Go to the Lantus ISG (Insulin Users Group) and read all the stickies, permanent posts on the top. It will feel like overload for a while, but you will absorb it. Post a question asking for info on the differences between Lantus and Levemir.

Hope to see you soon in LL (Lantus Land.)

 

Re: Caught off gaurd w/ Vetsulin recall ... now stressing!

Many people have offered good advice so far! I would like to clear up one thing about ProZinc - It is not a bovine insulin, but it is actually the only FDA approved insulin for cats and most vets carry it now. That being said - Lantus and Levimir are two human use insulins that have had really really good success rates with kitties too. Either option should prove to be a good one for your kitty, so I wouldn't stress too much about it. They are slower acting insulins than the vetsulin you have been on, so once you get used to how they work, you might actually like them better.

 

Re: Caught off gaurd w/ Vetsulin recall ... now stressing!

I knew there was something I was forgetting. I want to chime in on how important diet is to a diabetic cat. Low carb food is a must, less than 10% carbs. Nearly all dry foods are much higher, in the 20% or above range.

Cats never evolved to metabolize carbs properly. They can't get the nutrients out of the food they are eating and are literally starving, while eating more and more. Meanwhile the carbs are being converted to fat ( = obesity), and dumped into the bloodstream resulting in less pancreatic activity, which means less natural insulin being produced. Viola, diabetes!

Please, read Dr. Lisa's articles. Proper diet is as important as choosing the right insulin. It isn't easy switching many cats, but it is just as necessary as insulin.

You will find the people here dedicated to remission not just control of the diabetes. What we do in LL reflects that and most vets are disbelieving when members bring their cats back needing no insulin. It takes a lot of work but it is worth it.

 

Re: Caught off gaurd w/ Vetsulin recall ... now stressing!

Thank you all for the advice and information, I'll talk to my wife about changing his diet; though previous attempts were always pretty fail.

We were looking at changing him over to Humulin-N and are in that process now, but it seems that everyone is reccomending a PZI, Levemir or Lantus. I'll go browse those forums for more info, but I'm just happy we have his blood sugar into the readable range atm.

Thanks again for the input,
Levii