7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet says no more insulin!

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houghtam

houghtam

Member Since 2013
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First reading of the day - 122 Had a small amount of dry at 3 am (3 hours ago). I know it said to ask for dosing advice for anything over 120, but 122 is kind of close. Has not had a shot since Saturday morning (48 hours ago). What do you think?
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 - dose or not??

Oh, you got a picture up. Hardey is a very handsome guy.

I would not shoot. The dry food could have been a contributing factor to that 122.
I haven't had but a sip of coffee yet this morning. I'm sure you are working on eliminating the dry food.

Nice numbers, Hardey

Maybe if he is up higher tonight, he will need some insulin.. We'll see.
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 - dose or not??

Kind of what I was thinking too. I'll do another test in 3 hours and then one at 9 hours just to have more info for the shot tonight. Sound about right?
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 - dose or not??

Sorry... yes, I am working on getting rid of the dry. He would not leave me alone at 3 am (paw in face, etc.) this morning. :(

Going back to bed. I think I have a migraine coming on. Ugh!
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 - dose or not??

Yes. What would be interesting is if Hardey's pancreas is bringing his own numbers down with food.
I would feed now and then test at +3.

Have a good day, both of you.
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122

I know he really likes his crunchies, and you've reduced him down a lot from what he was eating, but you're best chance of getting him OTJ (off the juice) is to get rid of all of the dry food. It's OK to leave some LC wet down overnight so if he gets the 2am munchies, he can get some without taking any chance of spiking his BG due to dry.

Have you had any luck checking your autofeeder?

I sure hope it's not a migraine...I know how horrible those can be!

Thinking of you today Mary Alice
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122

76 at +3

Wasn't really happy with the stick this time. Thinks he's getting tired of it. Not going to do another one until 3 to give him a break. :)

Working on getting the feeder to work today. Have to make up some extra wet tonight to keep him from waking me up. He had diarrhea last night before bed and I was afraid to give him anymore wet for awhile. Promise - I'm almost done with the dry. :)

Migraine is manageable right now. Not great feeling though. Back to bed now.
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76

So I just called the vet to give her an update on what I was doing. She said since it's a people meter vs a pet meter, I could be getting false readings. She wants me to bring him in so we can test him with both and see what they say. Has anyone had this happen? I'm a little freaked out now that maybe it's not as good as I thought it was.
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet wants me to come i

Your meter is just fine. That is the same meter I used with Maui and never had any issues.

Yes, there are differences between human and animal meter, but honestly the difference is negligible. For example, if giving insulin the low/hypo threshold is 70 instead of 50 with your meter.

There is no need to bring the cat into the vet, just because she doesn't like your meter and think it's wrong. You have good numbers today (I haven't looked at your ss) and nothing is wrong with Hardey, except waking you for food ;-) - don't worry, don't get upset. You are doing everything correctly.

Now let's get him off the dry food. Are you doing the kibble count method? I had to do that with my civvie. I started by giving her 20 pieces and taking 1-2 pieces away each day, until I convinced her that the wet food she was already eating was good.
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet wants me to come i

the human meters actually get a bit more accurate with the lower numbers than the high numbers.
You can approximately add 30 for what the vet would see on an alpha trak meter.
Bear in mind, that most vets get nervous of numbers under 150 ....
Hardey is having great numbers....for having no insulin shots.

And might keep himself in that range all the time once the dry food is gone...
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet wants me to come i

Thanks guys. I feel better. Going to take him in anyway so she can take a look at his hind legs (having a hard time laying down) and he has the sniffles. At least if she compares the meters, we have something to go on so she buys in.

Good idea with the counting method on the dry. I've kind of been doing that. I think he had about 20 last night at 3am, so I'll keep decreasing it.

I'll let you know what the vet says. Appt is at 12:15. Hardey is NOT going to be happy!
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet wants me to come i

How old is Hardey? I don't see a profile.
Maybe he's getting a touch of the ol' arthritis.... ( that shows up on x-rays)
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet wants me to come i

Hi Mary Alice,
This is my first visit to your condo and I want to say hi and welcome you to LL.
I agree with the others. Unless there is some other problem that is bothering Hardey, taking him to the vet just to do a meter comparison is a waste of your time and money. For one thing, kitties are usually stressed at the vet's and you would not get an accurate reading on either meter.
I hope your migraine will be over soon.
Good luck with the transition off of dry food.

Ella & Rusty

Sorry, this post crossed with yours. Good luck at the vet's. Don't spring for the "cat-specific" meter, even if your vet insists. (Tell her that you'll think about it.) Those meters are expensive and the strips are VERY expensive.
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet wants me to come i

The technology is the same. Is the vet saying that human diabetics have unreliable meters?

Also, if you look at the paper I'm attaching, there is a table for use with a human meter an one for an animal meter (AlphaTrack). The difference is a matter of 30 points. This is from a top tier veterinary journal and is the Tight Regulation Protocol that we use here.
 

Attachments

Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet wants me to come i

Thanks for the info. I'm hoping they will be close and we can move on with what I'm doing instead of more insulin.

Hardey is 12 (almost 13 next month). May have her do xrays to check for arthritis. Going to ask about the stuff for neuropothy too.
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet wants me to come i

Hi guys .. wow, no shot since saturday is great! We never ever used anything other then a human meter for mocha .. in fact, we told our vet that is what we were going to use and she said that was fine ... I do hope hardey's back legs are ok and his sniffles go away soon! have a great day!
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet wants me to come i

Tell her its like reading temperature in Celsius vs Fahrenheit - both are accurate, they are just different scales, and we have reference numbers for using the human glucometers on cats.

Also let her know the FDA allows meters (human or pet-specific) to be sold which read within 20% of a lab value.
This means that
200 is 160 - 240
300 is 240 - 360
etc.
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet wants me to come i

Where would I find the numbers that correlate the scales to human glucometers? Maybe I can show them to her?
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet wants me to come i

The PDF Sienne cited.

Also, pulled from our various resources, here are some glucose reference ranges used for decision making using a human glucometer:

< 40 mg/dL
- Treat as if HYPO
- At nadir (lowest point between shots) in a long term diabetic (more than a year), may earn a reduction.

< 50 mg/dL
- If before nadir, steer with food, ie, give modest amounts of medium carb food to keep from going below 50.
- At nadir, often indicates dose reduction is earned.

50 - 130 mg/dL
- On insulin - great control when following a tight regulation protocol.
- Off insulin - normal numbers. (May even go as low as the upper 30s; if not on insulin, this can be safe.

> 150 mg/dL
- At nadir, indicates a dose increase may be needed when following a tight regulation protocol.

180 - 280 mg/dL
- Any time - The renal threshold (depending on data source and cat's renal function) where glucose spills into the urine.
- Test for ketones, glucose is high.

>= 280 mg/dL, if for most of the cycle between shots
- Uncontrolled diabetes and thus at risk for diabetic ketoacidosis and hepatic lipidosis
- Follow your insulin protocol for dose adjustments
- Test for ketones; if more than a trace level of ketones, go to vet ASAP.
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet wants me to come i

This is my first time visiting you guys, too. You've gotten lots of great, accurate info here, so I'm just stopping in to say "welcome!" Good luck with the vetty visit...just don't let her strong-arm you about the meter situation.
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet wants me to come i

Okay, I give up. Have been through the pdf three times and can't find the chart comparing human and pet glucometers. Might be my headache is making it hard for me to see... What page is it on? Help!
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet wants me to come i

Just my 2 cents worth too....Tell your vet "Thank you for your concern, but I think I'll just keep working with this one.".....Unless you're made of money, it's a waste to have the vet do bloodwork to try to win a pissing contest. Have Hardey's legs checked and hold your ground. Tell the vet that you'll think about it and go on home. Hardey doesn't like the vet, right? So he'll be stressed and his readings won't be accurate or easily compared to what you've been getting at home. If you've been getting 80's, and the vet uses an Alpha-Trak, that's going to add approx 30 points....PLUS the stress of the drive and the vet visit could add another 100...or more...so instead of getting a nice 80, you'll looking at a 210...That's a BIG difference, and doesn't accurately reflect what his readings truly are.

Even if your numbers WERE "human error", they would be jumping all over the place, not as consistent as they've been. Removing the dry food he was grazing on all day CAN and DOES make a big difference!! Remember, when we first talked, I told you about Missy & Kitty? 2 days of insulin, a switch to LC wet and she's on day 9 (If I remember right) of her OTJ trial. At 14 days without insulin and only controlled by diet, we have a party and consider them "diet-controlled diabetics"....Just like humans that can keep their BG in safe numbers if they eat correctly!!

Numbers on meters are controlled by the FDA. Human/pet...doesn't matter...if they didn't work, humans wouldn't be using them either

Hope the vet can help with Hardey's legs...that's something the vet will know more about than the people here...since we don't have x-ray eyes :lol:
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet wants me to come i

Thanks for the pep talk, Chris. I'm leaving in about 10 minutes. Not looking forward to it, but I'll take your advice and stand strong. :)

I'll update when I get back.
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet wants me to come i

Vet's level was 160. Mine was 117. I think you said to add about 30 to mine for pet glucose scale, right? So mine would be 147? Anyway, she said he's in normal range and to stop insulin and test every few days. I'll prob test more, but still relieved. She is backed up here and they fit me in, so waiting for her to come back to check sniffles and back legs.
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet wants me to come i

Nice to know your vet agrees with us on no insulin! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Those numbers aren't bad for vet stress.

So I think this makes today day 3 without any insulin?

We recommend still testing twice a day, at normal AM and PM test times. It gives you a better idea of what is going on.
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet wants me to come i

Just got home. Hardey is not happy (under the bed), but I am ecstatic!!! No more insulin and she said check his levels once a week (also should be able to tell by drinking/urination). I think I'll still test twice a day like Deb suggested. At least for awhile to keep my sanity.

Dr said it's definately arthritis (bunch of sore spots on his spine) and she did a laser treatment on him spine and hips. She said they are getting really good results. I have to do it a few more times, but if it helps, it's so worth it.

1/2 tablet of benadryl for the sniffles.

Thank you so much for everything you guys have done/said. I couldn't have made it through this weekend without you. Time for some lunch (haven't really eaten since early Saturday) and a big nap!
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet says no more insul

I'd keep testing twice a day until he's been off insulin for at least a full 2 weeks...and then if he's still doing good, you could slow down even more, but it's GREAT news and you want to make sure it stays that way!

Keep counting those crunchies and work him down to none, and you may very well be another diet controlled diabetic!!

WOO HOO!!! party_cat party_cat
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet says no more insul

Mary Alice ---

I'm at work and don't have a copy of our OTJ (off the juice) trial instructions on this computer. I've asked to have someone post them for you. We are a little more circumspect about an OTJ trial just so you are absolutely sure that Hardey succeeds.
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet says no more insul

Congratulations Mary Alice!!! Looks like Hardey is ready for an OTJ Trial! Here are the instructions:

  • Test at your normal AMPS and PMPS times. Feed multiple small meals throughout the day as much as possible (small meals are less likely to overwhelm a newly functioning pancreas).

  • If he is green at your normal test times, no need to test further until the next "PS" time, just feed small meals and go about your day. If he is blue, feed a small meal and test again after about 3 hours. If his number is lower 3-4 hours after a meal, then his pancreas is working!

  • If all goes well, after 14 days, we have a party!

Sometimes the trial doesn't work the first time and we have to give a little more support in the form of resuming insulin. It's not the end of the world if that happens, we just give him the support he needs. Our goal is a strong remission and it's better to take our time to get that than to rush into remission just to have it fail later on.

Good luck!! We are all rooting for you two.
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet says no more insul

Thanks for the instructions. :)

Didn't test tonight. Hardey and I are celebrating by not poking him. We'll get back on the bandwagon tomorrow.
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet says no more insul

Congratulations and Happy Day Two? ;-) :-D
 
Re: 7/29 Hardey AMBG +48 122 +51 76 vet says no more insul

Thanks Dyana! I am still bouncing off the walls... Hardey is sleeping. Guess he's excited, but needs a nap from dealing with a paranoid mom who poked him in the ear way to many times...

Going to bed early and hoping that he doesn't wake me up at 3 am. lol :)
 
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