08/01 TASHIE AMPS=HI/+6.25=267

A HUGE thank you for teaching me how to handle low numbers and helping me feel confident about doing so!!!

So.... I had a night! I knew I was in for one when Tashie gave me a "magenta" number at PMPS - whenever she gives me a colored number she drops really fast! She was at 323 PMPS (which would be high for most cats) and by =2.5 she was 97. Now, I know that "normally" that is no big deal but ECID and Tash would be in the 30's in a half hour if I don't start giving HC gravy. I KNOW this is not the "protocol" but Tash drops so quickly I have to react. Also, even with an appetite stimulant, she is not interested in eating when she is at lower numbers - she just doesn't! I started with 4 syringes (total of about 7-10ML) of HC Gravy Food @ 97, she dropped to 78, I repeated, she dropped to 64, I repeated, she then went to 48 - with all that gravy on board - gave a little Karo and more HC gravy, brought her up to 112 then she started dropping again. Finally, at +9, she dropped to 45 and I did a no no - ***I was tired***it was 4AM, I was beat so I gave her just a FEW DM cookies - I know, shouldn't have but I did - I was delirious by then and had to do something, it was maybe just 1/8 of a cup - not a lot - then it brought her up and I felt we were out of the woods. Yes, she's HIGH this morning but she bounces anyway, she probably would have been high regardless.

SO, here is the question of the day ..... I have got her COMPLETELY off DRY food - last night was an exception, there is NO dry offered. She is eating FF LC and I am feeding her often and she is eating with the help of an appetite stimulant. She now is wanting "turkey treats" more and more - fresh, NO MSG turkey breast - she loves it - and that has NO, or virtually NO carbs. This is definitely helping with the insulin as she is not bouncing quite so much but she is dropping REALLY LOW when she clears the bounces. I did drop her from 1.25U to 1U *** Again, I know this is not protocol but I KNOW she dropped low the night of the 28th - didn't catch it but I did drop her as I just feel the food is making her go lower*** Even though she earned a dose reduction last night I went from 1U to a skinny 1u - I did not drop the whole .25U.

Any suggestions on how to handle this better? I KNOW I shouldn't be giving gravy at 97 but you can see what happens to her even when I do - I can't trust her as she will be down to 12 before I blink. I don't think I'm overreacting, just trying to keep her safe and I think this food transition is playing a major part with her insulin. I'd LOVE to have her "surf the greens" and have her eat LC to have that happen - but she doesn't, she just dives. She has no interest in food when she goes low and even with HC it's a struggle to keep her afloat.

Hope this makes sense as I am SO tired - maybe got 2 hours!

Thanks!
Bern

Re: 08/01 TASHIE AMPS=HI

Tashie, stop stressin' your mama! I think Bob may have a new best friend!!! Wow - I see what you mean that she drops fast, even with all the HC gravy. Yikes! That is very stressful. I think you handled it as best you could being new and frightened! I did the same with Bob one time - I guess we don't get the BOS award! :lol: But don't ever do what I do because I react out of complete hysteria. :roll:

You are doing a good job Bern! Hang in there!

Re: 08/01 TASHIE AMPS=HI

Morning Bern,

OMG - Tashie does not play by anybody's rules, does she??!! I cannot offer you any advice, but I am wishing you a calm, steady, uneventful day.

jane

Re: 08/01 TASHIE AMPS=HI

A thought here: Perhaps the canned food needs to be closer to the 10% calories from carbohydrates, instead of towards the 0% calories from carbohydrates. Those sudden drops can't feel very good and every cat is different; perhaps that would help smooth her out a bit.

Re: 08/01 TASHIE AMPS=HI

Dara, I think we DO earn SOME kind of BOS award when we stay up all night working to not see the 30's! I don't know how others get their kitty's to eat when they are low but I know "Tom" doesn't and he usually has a great appetite. I have to be pro active with her because she doesn't seem to "surf' the greens like other do. She will occasionally surf the blues - which is no problem but when she gets into those greener pastures she keeps going lower and lower and lower. And, at 4 AM, 8 hours later, well I was just buggered and so was she. We were locked in that bathroom together and she was such a good girl but enough was enough.
Dara, if you think you have Bob eating the YA "0" carb, I have a whole bag in the fridge that is a no go around here - I'd gladly send to you - it's only about 3 weeks old and I've stored in the fridge so it's fine and still fresh - let me know! Good luck with Bob! Wonder of they are distant cousins?!!!

Amazing what a diet change van do, huh!

B

Re: 08/01 TASHIE AMPS=HI

BJ, are you suggesting I feed her the higher (10%) carb all the time? She seems VERY carb sensitive --- meaning, when she was in the hospital and she would ONLY eat DM dry (18%) she was on 3U of insulin. But when I first started out with her and she was on LC and eating well, she was on .5U and still visited green land but her "drops" seemed less dramatic and easier to control. Meaning, when she drops low so fast in the cycle (+2.5) not only am I working to keep her from going TOO low but I am also dealing with the Lantus cycle which is still working on her and has hours left to go.
Then, there is the other issue, as she seems so "carb sensitive" if I upped the carbs, she would probably need more insulin? This is tricky!

B

Re: 08/01 TASHIE AMPS=HI

Not exactly.

One of the tricks to slow sudden drops which may result in bouncing, or postpone a dose decrease (usually when the cat doesn't handle decreases well) is to use mini-meals with differeing levels of carbs.
Example:
meal 1 low carb, most of breakfast (2/3 to 3/4, maybe)
At +2 to +3, when you often see if the drop is like a rock that day
meal 2 medium carb remainder of breakfast

Or a variation on that. You'll need to experiment to see what works with Tashie.

If you recall, there is something of a smile shape to a curve, so you feed to sort of flatten the smile a tad - a progression from lowest carb to higher carb.

Re: 08/01 TASHIE AMPS=HI

BJ, do do get the curve but it's hard to do when you have a cat that decides not to eat. She's been doing really well but seems when she drops into lower numbers she just will not eat. I'll try to be more vigilant with that on the days she does eat. She's on an appetite stimulant that works GREAT when she is in higher numbers but even that doesn't seem to work when she drops.
General question though, she has this "fixation" with turkey breast - it's got no MSG and is a quality deli brand (not Oscar Mayer out of a sealed pack) in fact, it's $12.99 a pound. It obviously has virtually no carbs - would it be wrong to let her have that as much as she wants? I don't want to fill her up on that and then she won't want anything else, or, is that okay? It started out as "treats" to get her interested and not all she wants is turkey turkey turkey! Can that be a problem? I can give her Nutri Cal as well? Just asking

Re: 08/01 TASHIE AMPS=HI

Hmmmnn. Just deli turkey isn't nutritionally complete. If you shred it up and sprinkle it over other food, will that get anything else eaten?

I see from the spreadsheet notes that you're dealing with variable appetite issues; this is one of the situations I had with Spitzer. What I ended up doing was a low enough level of Lantus that even if he threw up, it wouldn't be too much, then I added a tiny bit of R those times he ate well and his glucose spiked high. I did some other creative things that were definitely "not standard veterinary practice", but did seem to be helping, right before Spitzer threw the blood clot.

Re: 08/01 TASHIE AMPS=HI

I am still too new at this but sometimes I wonder if Lantus is not for her? I'd be interested to have a conversation with Carl about PZI but I don't think now is the time due to the loss of his pussy cat, don't want to intrude. Tashie's ways are just SO inconsistent that it really makes it hard to manage - I get that I'm still new to the game but EATING seems to very important to work with the Insulin. We'll go a week and all will be fine and then she throws me one ..... could be today is that she's just pooped from last night as even Boris is laying low today (as he was "on guard" most of the night) ......I open can after can and make my own chicken broth to moisten and help enhance - she is just a pikky little bugger - and I say that with much fondness, I'm just not operating with a full deck today! I'm trying to leave her alone today to see if she will just finally wake up and get with the program! It's not east trying to change the ways of a 15+ year old - or, in all reality, most cats! Gurrrr! I'm open to ANY suggestions and appreciate your time!

B

Re: 08/01 TASHIE AMPS=HI

BorisV said:

Dara, if you think you have Bob eating the YA "0" carb, I have a whole bag in the fridge that is a no go around here - I'd gladly send to you - it's only about 3 weeks old and I've stored in the fridge so it's fine and still fresh - let me know! Good luck with Bob! Wonder of they are distant cousins?!!!

Amazing what a diet change van do, huh!

B

Click to expand...

Hey Bern - that's so nice of you! I'll wait and see if Bob sticks with it first. If he eats it more that 2 weeks, I'll be happy. That's some pricey stuff, but not as pricey as the wet food I was buying.

Thank you so much for the offer - I will definitely let you know.

I hope Tashie behaves a little better tonight!

Re: 08/01 TASHIE AMPS=HI

The offer is open - just let me know! Hope Bob eats it and sticks with it! oy!