9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+5-285,PMPS-298

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donaleen and Ozy

donaleen and Ozy

Member Since 2013
Yesterday http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=105364&p=1119284#p1119284

Thanks, Jill. I would NOT say the color popped out at me. I studied the chart trying to decide if it was trace or negative. It seemed in between the two. Then I had John check it, he also thought it looked possible. We have checked him before and always thought he was negative. I hope we are wrong. I am locked in a room with him now with a litter box waiting for him to pee.

I got the fluids from the vet. I wanted them to help with his pancreatitis. Yesterday was only the third time we have successfully given him fluids. I am trying to administer them whenever his glucose is high or he has pancreatitis symptoms. We are finally becoming more proficient at it with him. He was really good about it yesterday and we did a full 100 ml. When you said if the vet approved them, did you mean something more than I got them from the vet? The vet is open seven days a week. It's a practice with several vets but I am pretty sure Ozy's vet is on duty today. Should I take him in if there is even a possibility of ketones?

And thanks, Sienne, for the explanation on high glucose and hunger. Should I feed him more when he is ravenous like that?

And should we increase his dose? He has had six cycles on this dose. He may be bouncing. Not sure what to do...

thanks
donaleen
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257 Possible Ketones, Increase dose??

I would check with the vet about giving fluids. If a cat has a heart condition, you don't want to overload on fluids since it can cause complications. Before you give more fluids, make sure what you've given has been absorbed.

What I would suggest is make sure you're adding as much water to Ozy's food as he'll tolerate.

I'd also get some early BG tests. It looks like you shot a dropping number.
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257 Possible Ketones, Increase dose??

((Donaleen))
Just here to show support.
I hope Ozy's next ketone test shows negative.
Sending prayers to your way.
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257 Possible Ketones, Increase dose??

I would compare a test you do on yourself to what you see on the test you do for Ozy and see if they look the same color.
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257 Possible Ketones, Increase dose??

Dyana's suggestion is fantastic. That way you'll know.
Ozy: drink lots, big boy. Have some water and wet food. Stay hydrated.
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306 Possible Ketones, Increase dose

I tested twice at +1. First time I got a 403, which seemed unlikely. Retest said 306.

No peeing yet....

Thanks, Sienne. How would I know if he has a heart condition? Nothing has been said to me about that. I think my vet is pretty good and pretty careful. I did add water to his food today.

This is my vet and the practice.
http://lvhvet.com/team/melinda-knox/


Thanks Mariko and Lara for the support. And thanks, Dyana for the great suggestion.

Now if he would just pee. I feel chained to the litter box.
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306 Possible Ketones, Increase dose

Have you tried placing him in the litter box? With my guys, that sometimes prompts them.
Your vet looks pretty good :-)
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306 Possible Ketones, Increase dose

Well, I tried the litter box thing... he just got out. He is very sleepy today, like he is exhausted. I put him on my lap and he is sleeping there now.
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306 Possible Ketones, Increase dose

You know that they can make him pee at the vet, right? So you can get him tested there.
If you're really worried, do it.
And you're doing stunningly well with all of this. FD is character-building, and then some.
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306 Possible Ketones, Increase dose

That's why they slipped that "for better or for worse, in sickness and in health" clause in there.
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306 Possible Ketones, Increase dose

I'm sure if your vet questioned anything with his heart, she'd let you know. My point was more that you don't want to overdo it on the fluids. Most of us don't give fluids when numbers are high. They can help with panreatitis or with ketones. For most of our cats, adding water to their food is sufficient.

Have you re-tested Ozy?
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306 Possible Ketones, Increase dose

Finally got a ketone test. We both read it as NEGATIVE.... very relieved.
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306 Possible Ketones, Increase dose

I am so glad to hear that.
Great news!
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306

Thanks, Sienne. I thought fluids helped flush out stuff. I did add water to his food. He doesn't drink much anymore. I guess that is good. So fluids are risky? When his numbers go high, I worry about pancreatitis. He definitely feels crappy today.

I did get a NEGATIVE ketone test. WHEW. That was stressful. That is the test you meant, isn't it?

And I am feeding him more today.

And, thanks, Mariko.
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306,+2.5-274

yaaaaaaaay for negative ketones!!!
just to be on the safe side, you might want to try getting a ketone test done once a day for the next couple of days.

When you said if the vet approved them, did you mean something more than I got them from the vet? The vet is open seven days a week. It's a practice with several vets but I am pretty sure Ozy's vet is on duty today. Should I take him in if there is even a possibility of ketones?
Click to expand...
as sienne has already mentioned, giving subq fluids can be counterintuitive if kitty has a heart condition. i don't like to hear anyone suggest administering fluids without knowing kitty's full medical history. that's why i suggest caregivers get the go ahead from their vet before giving fluids blindly.

alex is a ketone prone kitty. my personal rule of thumb is to call my vet if i catch her throwing trace ketones... just to let him know. it also gives him an opportunity to offer suggestions. if she is throwing any more than trace ketones... i'd take her in to be checked out.
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306,+2.5-274

What a relief to find out that he's negative. I may have missed something, but in your first posting, you said that you have fluids from your vet and have been giving them to Ozy, is that right? I got the impression that perhaps you asked for them, rather than your vet recommending them. So are you going to stop and have the vet recheck Ozy before giving any more?
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306,+2.5-274

Yes, I did ask for subQ fluids after having them recommended for pancreatitis. I talk about it here and in the previous day to that.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=103343

But I am also pretty sure that it was one of the treatments the vet recommended in July for his pancreatitis. I think if she thought it was a bad idea, she would have told us. She did just recheck Ozy a couple of weeks ago.

When Ozy is high (like now), bouncing doesn't always seem like the reason to me. Sometimes I think it is his pancreatitis kicking up. And I also wonder if his pancreas makes uneven amounts of insulin, so that when it isn't functioning, his numbers go up. If you look back at his spreadsheet for the last month, he didn't go as high or for as long as he is this time, even when his glucose hit much lower numbers for longer periods. So why would his liver go crazy NOW? To me, this seems more like not enough insulin. That could be because his pancreas isn't producing as much as it was. Or it could be that the lowered dose isn't enough insulin.

I didn't think there were counter-indications for subQ fluids. I thought subQ fluids were good to give a pancreatitis prone kitty.

Ozy feels crappy today. I am not sure why. Pancreatitis? Higher numbers? Something else?

Today is windy rainy unsettling day here. We are having the remnants of a typhoon. We had water in our basement for the first time in 18 years last night and the worst of the storm is coming later today. They are comparing it to the 1962 Columbus Day storm which was a very damaging storm in Portland. They say the pressure is going really low which makes for a fierce storm.

thanks,
donaleen
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306,+2.5-274

My boy has that nasty pancreatitis too, so thanks for clarifying. I get caught up in the same questions, so I'm following this.
I hope the great king is feeling tip top soon. I feel like highs and panc are intertwined.

If you think he's uncomfy, did you bupe him?
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306,+2.5-274

I didn't think there were counter-indications for subQ fluids. I thought subQ fluids were good to give a pancreatitis prone kitty.
Click to expand...

I don't think there are counter-indications, except what I've seen mentioned here many times. If there is a history of heart issues, then fluids can be risky, and if that's the case, people are always advised to only use fluids after their vet says "okay". I have seen other people use fluids when dealing with chronic/repeated bouts of p-titis. And bupe for the pain. I would think that your vet would only have told you the fluids were okay if he felt that heart issues weren't "an issue".
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306,+2.5-274

Thanks, Carl and Lara... gee, it's nice to have support.

Lara, I have NOT buped him today. Yesterday I did. Thanks for the reminder. Certain things make me feel rich... home made chicken broth in the freezer and, now, buprenorphine for Ozy.... it really is such a help for him.

Bupe 'em, Danno!!!
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306,+2.5-274

Donaleen and Lara,
If you haven't already visited Tanya's site, there's a lot of p-titis information there including treatment options.

The "treatment" section is about half-way down the page.

http://www.felinecrf.org/pancreatitis.htm
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306,+2.5-274

donaleen and Ozy said:
Yes, I did ask for subQ fluids after having them recommended for pancreatitis. I talk about it here and in the previous day to that.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=103343

But I am also pretty sure that it was one of the treatments the vet recommended in July for his pancreatitis. I think if she thought it was a bad idea, she would have told us. She did just recheck Ozy a couple of weeks ago.
Click to expand...
good. i'm sure he would have told you if there was a reason not to give fluids.

donaleen and Ozy said:
When Ozy is high (like now), bouncing doesn't always seem like the reason to me. Sometimes I think it is his pancreatitis kicking up. And I also wonder if his pancreas makes uneven amounts of insulin, so that when it isn't functioning, his numbers go up. If you look back at his spreadsheet for the last month, he didn't go as high or for as long as he is this time, even when his glucose hit much lower numbers for longer periods. So why would his liver go crazy NOW? To me, this seems more like not enough insulin. That could be because his pancreas isn't producing as much as it was. Or it could be that the lowered dose isn't enough insulin.
Click to expand...
it's very possible the dose will have to be brought back up in the morning. if i were in your shoes i would re-evaluate after tonight's cycle.

donaleen and Ozy said:
I didn't think there were counter-indications for subQ fluids. I thought subQ fluids were good to give a pancreatitis prone kitty.
Click to expand...
yes, giving subq fluids is part of the treatment plan for p-itis, but not necessarily for kitties who have heart conditions. when dealing with a heart kitty, one would want to be very cautious about administering fluids even if kitty also has p-titis.

donaleen and Ozy said:
Ozy feels crappy today. I am not sure why. Pancreatitis? Higher numbers? Something else?
Click to expand...
is he meat loafing? appy off? any other symptoms?

donaleen and Ozy said:
Today is windy rainy unsettling day here. We are having the remnants of a typhoon. We had water in our basement for the first time in 18 years last night and the worst of the storm is coming later today. They are comparing it to the 1962 Columbus Day storm which was a very damaging storm in Portland. They say the pressure is going really low which makes for a fierce storm.
Click to expand...
oh dear. stay safe and dry!
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306,+2.5-274,+5-285

Thanks, Carl. I don't think I have seen that site. Always good to get information.

Thanks, Jill.

No, he is not meatloafing. He does do that sometimes but not today. He is really inactive to the point of lethargy. He is a little out of it and grouchy. He is shut away in his own little world far away from the rest of us. His appetite is fine, but he doesn't have appetite issues, which I am thankful for. Sometimes I think just the higher numbers are enough to make him feel pretty crappy. It's okay if they don't go on too long, but this is now the fourth cycle of high numbers. At least they aren't pink that much, let alone red or black. But this seems high enough to affect him negatively.

And thanks. My plan then is to up the dose tomorrow morning UNLESS his numbers start falling.

donaleen
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306,+2.5-274,+5-285

my alex is much like ozy in that there's a noticeable difference in her behavior when she's running in higher numbers. it's obvious she feels crappy. it's one of the reasons i continue to try to keep her tightly regulated despite the fact it's likely she'll never go off the juice again. however, tight regulation is a process. it takes time to get there. you're doing all you can to get to that point.

i agree with your plan to up the dose. unless the numbers tell you otherwise, i would increase the dose in the morning and monitor carefully.

gotta run. will check in on you late tonight.
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306,+2.5-274,+5-285

Thank you so much, Jill. He has one additional symptom... He breathes as though he hurts. It just sounds like it hurts.
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306,+2.5-274,+5-285

If it's p-titis, from what I understand, it hurts like hell for people, and I imagine it's just as bad for cats. A lady I work with was hospitalized with p-titis last year. She told me it hurt worse than childbirth.

If his breathing becomes rapid, and/or shallow, bring him to the vet, IMHO. I don't even want to speculate, but if it looks like he's having a hard time breathing, that might indicate fluid in his chest.

But it might also be just that the p-titis hurts that bad. To steal a line from a classic movie..... "I don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' babies!"... but if pancreatitis hurts that bad I imagine there's a lot of labored breathing going on (fun with puns ;-) )
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306,+2.5-274,+5-285

That was pretty funny, Carl. Well it's been half an hour since the bupe and his breathing is now normal and he is more alert and engaged and even purred a little. Good idea to Bupe 'em. I never want to overdo the bupe, but sometimes I think I under do it..
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306,+2.5-274,+5-285

Jill & Alex said:
however, tight regulation is a process. it takes time to get there. you're doing all you can to get to that point.
Click to expand...

It's nice to hear that because it is hard to be sure of what to do.
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306,+2.5-274,+5-285

I never want to overdo the bupe, but sometimes I think I under do it..
Click to expand...

I know other people have struggled with the same thing. Most recently, Jamie with Jupe worried about overdoing the bupe. Problem is that you want to stay "ahead of" the pain, because most times cats are good at hiding pain. Once you can "see it" yourself, it's probably pretty bad, and then you're trying to play catch up.

Good that the bupe seems to have helped.
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306,+2.5-274,+5-285

Thanks... he is sitting up now, for the first time today. Definitely feeling better. Why do I forget this? (sighs....)
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306,+2.5-274,+5-285

Why do I forget this? (sighs....)
Click to expand...

Because we have a finite number of brain cells...if you remembered everything, your head would
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306,+5-285,+8-332

Oh, no, what has happened to Lara?

Got another ketone test. Negative AGAIN...

first I saw it under incandescent light (it's so dark today we have lights on) and it looked like a bad color, worse than a trace, but then we looked at it in daylight and it was fine. I know last night we used daylight but maybe the incandescent lights affected the color cuz they were on and it was later than this.

Ozy is feeling much better. Thank you, Bupe. His numbers aren't better though.
 
Re: 9/29 Ozy AMPS-257,+1-306,+5-285,+8-332

I hope they catch up soon!

Oh and nothing happened...I just had to join in the head-explosion fun.
 
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