11/4 Mary Grace AMPS 319 PMPS 485+2 285+4 208

Mary let me test her this morning!!
Still have sporadic numbers.
Really wondering if I need to increase her dose since she is high. But will keep trying to get more readings for a better analysis
Her 5 p are good. Except she is still popping outside the litter box (kept very clean)
She played with me and her brothers yesterday and I was happy to see she was running and jumping to try and catch the bird on the wand!!
Elizabeth
Update: She was growling and fighting getting the PMPS, ran and got my wonderful neighbor to help. It was 485!!!
Is there enough data on ss to see if she needs an increase?

Re: 11/4 Mary Grace AMPS 319

I started to reply in your thread (aka "condo") from the other day before I saw you'd posted today.

We don't have an "algorithm" but what we do have is a dosing protocol that is based on published research. The Tight Regulation Protocol is what most of us here use. I would encourage you to read the information that I linked and let us know if you have questions.

Basically, you evaluate the dose every 3 days/6 cycles unless Mary Grace's numbers fall below 50. A drop below 50 indicates that a dose reduction is needed. Nadirs that are consistently above normal range (50 - 120) indicate that the dose needs to be increased. Dose changes are typically in increments of 0.25u. While there are more nuances to the protocol, those are the bare bones.

Re: 11/4 Mary Grace AMPS 319

Hi and welcome to LL!!! :thumbup Congratulations on getting the test!

This is a site that shows what states require a Rx for syringes.http://www.isletsofhope.com/diabetes/state-law/state-prescription-laws.html It looks like you are OK in North Carolina. You will still need a Rx for the Lantus though. You can either order syringes online, most of us use ADW (but our link on top of the page seems to be broken! :sad: ) or purchase them from a pharmacy (more expensive), but many here buy them from Walmart. Because we adjust doses in very small increments getting syringes with half unit markings is very important. Walmart is one of the few retail outlets that carry the half unit marked syringes. Be sure you are getting U100 syringes, 3/10cc (the barrel is narrower so the markings are further apart and easier to see), 3/8", 31 gauge needle (some beans like longer needles, that's up to you.)

If you could add some rows containing the info about when Mary Grace's dose has been changed and when the vet tests were done it would help to see what has been going on. Remember that Lantus is a depot insulin and any changes in dose need about 3 days to adjust the depot.

Re: 11/4 Mary Grace AMPS 319

Hi Elizabeth!!

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=107459

When you do your daily condo, just find your last one, copy the link in the address bar and then in the body of the new condo click on "URL" and "paste" the link. That's all there is to it. You don't have to make it anything special. I have posted the link to your condo from 11/2 above for everyone

Yes, the spreadsheet saves the numbers as you enter them, so you don't have to do anything but put the numbers in. It automatically saves changes.

Love how Kitten Cow got that name! Maybe when you have some extra time, you can do a profile page for Mary Grace and add your other kitties too so we can all see how pretty they are!

Different states have different laws about syringes, but it looks like you don't need one in N.C. I get mine at WalMart and specifically ask for ones with half unit markings. Occasionally they'll say they don't have them, but I make them actually look, and guess what?? They did! The Relion syringes U100, 3/10cc, 31 gauge, 5/16" insulin syringes are $12.98 for a box of 100

Congratulations on getting your first AMPS in!! It will get easier, I promise!! We've all heard horror stories from others about their kitties and how they'd never get used to it, and a few weeks later their kitties are coming when they're called to get their tests in (well...maybe not the test..but the treat!...lol)

For now, just get as many tests as you can, and let's see if she's dropping low (which can trigger a bounce to those higher numbers) or dropping fast (which can do the same)

As you know from your own diabetes, treatment isn't a sprint, it's a marathon, so try not to worry too much about getting her down into "normal numbers" too quickly. The protocol here works, but we won't sacrifice safety. You'll start to see improvements in how Mary Grace looks and acts, see less drinking and peeing, and gaining weight and muscle. Those are the indications that are just as important! Don't get carried away with the numbers.

Re: 11/4 Mary Grace AMPS 319

Thanks for the info on the syringes, I will go to Walmart during my lunch tomorrow.
Lets hope for an PMPS!
And Chris- you are right about a marathon and not a sprint... I am praying for patience!
Thanks for the info on how to add link to condo. I will be sure to add photos
As for adding rows of info to the ss on her vet tests, etc I will add what little data I do have.
Thanks everyone....Happy Monday!

Re: 11/4 Mary Grace AMPS 319 PMPS 485 ?

Elizabeth/Mary Grace said:

Didn't know if anyone would see an update so I reposted on a new condo. Hope I am doing this message board right, I just don't like these numbers!!

I am worried!

Click to expand...

Did Mary Grace get a shot during the PM cycle last night? There's no dose on your SS.

If Mary Grace has been on Lantus since mid-September and has now been on the 2.0u dose for more than 6 consecutive cycles, you are fine to increase her dose. When you increase, it's in 0.25u. However, you really should try to get at least one spot check per cycle in addition to your pre-shot tests.

Re: 11/4 Mary Grace AMPS 319 PMPS 485 ?

Yes, I gave her 2 units last night and just checked my ss and fixed that!

Re: 11/4 Mary Grace AMPS 319 PMPS 485 ?

Ewwww on that PMPS number!!

Radical Red isn't your color Mary Grace!! Why not try some nice blue?? It'll show off your pretty eyes!! (hopefully she doesn't have red eyes...LOL)

I think it's probably OK for you to go ahead and increase too Elizabeth...did you get the new syringes? You'd only go up to 2.25 and it takes a little practice to find those doses that fall between the lines.

If you have the half unit marked syringes now, if you use some Kool Aid, tea, coffee..anything colored, it can help you to see it better and get used to where that is on the syringe so when you're ready to shoot the 2.25, you'll have a "feel" for where it is

I know you're still trying to get a little more cooperation out of her on testing, but if you can get a +2 and a before bed test tonight, that'd be helpful. We just don't know if she's going really low during the cycle, or dropping too fast (either of which can cause a bounce) so the more tests you can get, the better!

Good luck no matter what you decide and hope Mary Grace lets you test her easier!

Re: 11/4 Mary Grace AMPS 319 PMPS 485 ?

She has bright yellow eyes! I need to get a picture uploaded!
I want to do what is right and I know I get freaked out thinking more is needed. But when I calmed down, a nice bath will do that, I don't want to rush and get her pancreas used to it when waiting for a few more numbers is worth it I know what 485 feels like and its beyond horrible! Im going to try and test her now and again at 10:00.
Ive had a nice long conversation with her asking for more cooperation on her part! Hope she listened!

Update:
:smile: I got her number so +2 after PMPS was 286. Thats a big drop since she ate food ate them same time. I will test again at 10

Re: 11/4 Mary Grace AMPS 319 PMPS 485 ?

Hello Elizabeth and Mary Grace! I just wanted to stop by and welcome you to LL. Good job in getting some tests. That's a big accomplishment! I hope you are able to get Mary Grace's numbers down to safe levels soon. You're in good hands!

Re: 11/4 Mary Grace AMPS 319 PMPS 485 ?

Sometimes when we get a really off high number like that we test again right away, there can be meter error. Also when did she last eat before that test? For preshot tests we try to remove food 2 hours before the preshot tests to get a "clean" reading. if she at shortly before the test it could be food influence that you were seeing.

Some cats have a much earlier onset and nadir than others, that +2 might be an early onset showing up. If Mary Grace is going down very fast, hitting a low her body isn't used to, she could be bouncing right back up at the next preshot and you never saw it. Once you can comfortably test more you will start to see her patterns. Many of us give several small mini meals in the early part of the cycle to slow the drops down.

Remember that Lantus is a depot insulin and dosing is based on the nadir, the lowest point in the cycle. So those mid cycle tests are really important.

Re: 11/4 Mary Grace AMPS 319 PMPS 485 ?

Yeah that's a 200 point drop in 2 hours, so if she didn't get any food for 2 hours before the Pre-shot test, and you tested/fed/shot all about the same time, it's totally possible that those high numbers you've been seeing are in response to those big drops.

They don't have to go to low numbers to bounce...fast drops like that can do it too

Considering the quick drop, I'd tend to be a little more conservative and maybe put off increasing for now and just stick with the 2 units for awhile longer. If there's any way you can get some +2's or mid-cycles in the day, it'll be much better. Is there any chance your neighbor might be able to try to get a mid-cycle test during the day when you're at work?

Re: 11/4 Mary Grace AMPS 319 PMPS 485

I feed her 1 can a day -2 x-at shot times, I would rather feed her thoughout the day but my other cats will eat it and I wouldn't know who is eating what...even with a timed feeder I can just see the others chomping away! I am going to come home at lunch tomorrow and test so I have a number 6 hours after shot. Also am going to test at 10:00 pm tonight and again at midnight and 2 or 4 whichever I can get up at!
I understand about false readings, when I got such a high number yesterday pre shot, I double checked and it was within 10 points of each other. Funny thing- as hard as a time I am having with testing her, when I just did it at 8:00 the first I got an error code from the meter cat(2)_steam and had to do another prick!
Update:
10pm 208. Will def get up at midnight. She is so much easier to give tests when she is in the blues....the reds and she is the devil! She goes from purring at our test area, rubbing her head on me to growling, hissing..its totally because of how she is feeling!!

Update#2: Checked at 1am and it was 173 this morning AMPS was 297!

Re: 11/4 Mary Grace AMPS 319 PMPS 485+2 285+2 208

you're doing great, elizabeth!

it all takes time. the Lantus Land saying about it being a marathon is so true. i reminded myself of that regularly. you're doing great at getting the hang of the testing. make sure you give Mary Grace a treat after each test - it will make her far more agreeable to sitting through it.

keep asking questions - we'll do our best to help you.

Re: 11/4 Mary Grace AMPS 319 PMPS 485+2 285+2 208

Welcome Elizabeth! We're glad you and Mary Grace found us! I'm partial to the name "Grace" ;-)

I'd see how low Mary Grace gets tonight. If she gets below 100, you might want to hold the dose a bit longer but if she goes back up tonight without getting below 200, I'd raise the dose by 0.25u.

Please let us know how we can help. Here is a post I wrote on Testing and Shooting Tips and it might have some info to help you with testing.