Stalling - advice needed please!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Michele&Errol

Michele&Errol

Member Since 2013
PMPS 8.6 mmol/L
I have fed him a little wet food as he was starving & I didn't know I shouldn't feed him if his PMPS is low. I tested again 45 mins later and his BG is now 9.8, but, that is probably the food talking.
I now know to withhold food for 2 hrs preshot, but because he has had no appetite until the last 36 hrs, I was very hesitant to withhold food and shoot incase he didn't eat.
What should I do now?
 
Ordinarily, a 156 would be fine to shoot. However, it looks like Errol's numbers have dropped from your +10. Can you re-test in 20 min. to see what the numbers are doing?
 
Sure, will do.
If they're on the rise, will it still be safe to shoot even though it's possibly a food spike?
 
45 mins after last BG test he is now 9.0
I don't feel comfortable to shoot, but am worried about the depot running out.
He seems happy but HUNGRY. He didn't have much supper so can I feed again and only shoot tomorrow AM again? I'm on 07h00 and 19h00 South Africa time. Thank you!
 
Is your shot schedule flexible enough to accomodate a 2 hour change?
Meaning, if you shoot, unless his numbers are really really high, you would need to shoot in 12 hours after you shoot tonight.
And then you can change the shot schedule back gradually in 15 minutes increments until you are back to the schedule that works best for you.
If you decide to skip, you can shoot a little early tomorrow (like at +22 or +23 instead of +24, again if your shot schedule is flexible).
If you give a BCS dose now, your shot schedule would still be 12 hours from now.

Where is he now in US numbers, around 150?
 
Dyana said:
Is your shot schedule flexible enough to accomodate a 2 hour change?
Meaning, if you shoot, unless his numbers are really really high, you would need to shoot in 12 hours after you shoot tonight.
And then you can change the shot schedule back gradually in 15 minutes increments until you are back to the schedule that works best for you.
If you decide to skip, you can shoot a little early tomorrow (like at +22 or +23 instead of +24, again if your shot schedule is flexible).
If you give a BCS dose now, your shot schedule would still be 12 hours from now.

Where is he now in US numbers, around 150?
Click to expand...

He's 162 (US #'s)
Would it be better to perhaps give a reduced dose now or better to skip altogether? I can shoot again in 12 hrs tomorrow, but won't be able to easily do the 15 minute increments during the week.
 
I'm not much of a fan of stalling, as the cat will often go lower when you stall without feeding.

I myself, can't stall much as my shot schedule is pretty rigid.

In the future, you may want to give a BCS dose on time (If the number is not too low, and you have supplies and can be around to test). I know you were unsure, and your comfort level is important.
 
What is a BCS dose?

I am really happy that for the 1st time tonight he was begging for food properly (as in patting me with his hand) and he actually ate a FULL sachet of wet food. Been a mission trying to get him onto wet from dry.
 
If it's 9:00pm now for you, can you do:

9:00pm tonight
8:30am and 8:30pm Sunday
8:00am and 8:00pm Monday
7:30am and 7:30pm Tuesday
7:00am and 7:00pm Wednesday

If not, I guess you should just skip the dose and feed him. His numbers will go up from the food and the insulin depot draining.
Like I said, you can shoot earlier tomorrow morning.
6:00am (+23) and 6:30pm tomorrow
6:30am and 7:00pm Monday
Would that work?

That's all I can think of, right now to help you.
 
Dyana said:
If it's 9:00pm now for you, can you do:

9:00pm tonight
8:30am and 8:30pm Sunday
8:00am and 8:00pm Monday
7:30am and 7:30pm Tuesday
7:00am and 7:00pm Wednesday

If not, I guess you should just skip the dose and feed him. His numbers will go up from the food and the insulin depot draining.
Like I said, you can shoot earlier tomorrow morning.
6:00am (+23) and 6:30pm tomorrow
6:30am and 7:00pm Monday
Would that work?

That's all I can think of, right now to help you.
Click to expand...

That would work! It's 21h30 here now. If I were to give him a full shot now, would I need to stay up and test him incase of a hypo? It's just that I want to try and do a curve tomorrow so if I don't get some sleep tonight I will not be in a fit state to do the curve and work. So - full shot or half shot? Thanks :)
 
Taigha said:
What is a BCS dose?

I am really happy that for the 1st time tonight he was begging for food properly (as in patting me with his hand) and he actually ate a FULL sachet of wet food. Been a mission trying to get him onto wet from dry.
Click to expand...
That's great that his appetite is back :thumbup
A BCS is a one time reduced dose (whatever you feel comfortable shooting at the time) that is given on time (normally) instead of his regular dose. Because of the depot built up from the doses before the BCS, you still have to watch out as the built up depot can still be affecting the cycle you give the BCS.
If I am really unsure of shooting J.D.'s regular dose, I can give a BCS dose, and if I have to leave to go to work, I will feed him some higher carb food. It all depends on the numbers and what your situation is.

Hopefully, others will chime in.
 
I think the Bob Martin's sachet is probably pretty high carb because it has gravy in it. Not much choice around here I'm afraid. You guys don't know how lucky you are with your huge variety of low carb kitty food ;)
 
Taigha said:
Dyana said:
If it's 9:00pm now for you, can you do:

9:00pm tonight
8:30am and 8:30pm Sunday
8:00am and 8:00pm Monday
7:30am and 7:30pm Tuesday
7:00am and 7:00pm Wednesday

If not, I guess you should just skip the dose and feed him. His numbers will go up from the food and the insulin depot draining.
Like I said, you can shoot earlier tomorrow morning.
6:00am (+23) and 6:30pm tomorrow
6:30am and 7:00pm Monday
Would that work?

That's all I can think of, right now to help you.
Click to expand...

That would work! It's 21h30 here now. If I were to give him a full shot now, would I need to stay up and test him incase of a hypo? It's just that I want to try and do a curve tomorrow so if I don't get some sleep tonight I will not be in a fit state to do the curve and work. So - full shot or half shot? Thanks :)
Click to expand...

If you can shoot at 9:30pm tonight and 9:00am/pm tomorrow, 8:30am/pm Tuesday, 8:00am/pm Wednesday, etc, then I would go ahead and shoot his full dose as long as he is eating. If the schedule works for you, then see if he eats and then give him his dose. The food should make his numbers rise, so if you could get maybe a +3 and a +5 or +6 if possible, that would be good for tonight. I don't think he will hypo tonight as long has he is eating.
 
Just checked BG again and it is still 9.0 after dinner so I would feel more comfortable missing tonight, and not even giving a BCS. I made the mistake of giving a shot at a low level last time and he had hypo #'s even though he didn't show any symptoms. I am really concerned about the depot running out, but your advice to shoot 2 hours earlier tomorrow AM is good advice. Thank you so much, we both really appreciate the help.
 
Dyana said:
Hopefully this link will help you: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=64843&hilit=International+food+list Where are you located?
Click to expand...

I checked through that and, alas, we get nothing LC here! No FF or Friskies pates :roll:
The wet food we have here (South Africa) is sadly lacking - all with gravy or jelly - so when I have got this diabetes thing more under control and can breathe a bit more I'm going to have to devise a balanced home made wet food diet for all my kitties.
 
Please know that your curve tomorrow may be higher than normal because of the skipped dose tonight. Don't make any dosing decisions based on his numbers tomorrow. The cycle count starts over again tomorrow.
 
05h30 : BG 6.4mmol/L - This is still far too low to shoot, and kitty is looking happier than he has in days. I will take BG again in 1 hour, but if it remains so low what do I do now?
 
you were planning on being home today to monitor? you mentioned doing a curve today. i think having skipped a shot already (at least i think you skipped last night and there's nothing in the ss column for dose) i'd want to get a little bit of insulin in.

Your choices are to
= skip again
- give a reduced dose
- give the full amount.

i would lean against the full amount because you have a newly diagnosed kitty and you've had a couple of times already where you've had to skip. If you really gave a high carb food for dinner last night, i think i'd give a very reduced dose this morning or skip again. If i were choosing a very reduced dose, with a lower preshot after a skipped dose, i think i'd try something like 0.25u. that assumes you are home to monitor.

If you decide to shoot, then you do need to get a +1 (in one hour after shot) and +2 (2 hrs later) to monitor where Errol is going. Please post with it.

If you don't have high carb food/karo syrup or don't have plenty of strips (probably 10 at a minimum) then skipping might be your best choice.

btw, jellied is usually the same as we see in low carb.

what are you comfortable with?
 
Thanks Julie.
He is so chipper for the first time in 10 days I'm quite scared to shoot incase he goes hypo, it being Sunday and all (vets not available etc).
The food I gave him yesterday was all in jelly (all I can find) and judging by his #'s over the past 24hrs I'm guessing it must be LC.
I really don't know what I should do!
 
45 mins later now BG is 6.7mmol/L

I will start the BG curve now until tomorrow AM 07h00. Once an hour for 1st 12hrs, thereafter once every 2hrs for following 12hrs.
 
115 is a normal non-diabetic BG number, but cats don't usually go from 1.25 to nothing. But . . . .

one thing you might not know is that when you shoot a lower number the cycle doesn't dive in the same way as when you shoot a high number. i know i thought that if 1.0 took punkin from 300 to 150, then shooting 1.0 u at 150 would kill him. but it doesn't work that way. the cycle flattens out and as a cat works off of insulin, they might only move 20 points in the whole cycle - or 5. so i wouldn't assume at all that he will plummet on you. I can stay with you and help you monitor tonight if you need it - there are others who would help too. as long as you have supplies you will be able to steer him and keep him safe. you won't need a vet.

it's entirely up to you. if you don't shoot, you can shoot early this evening if you want - or get back to your regular schedule. He might go high without the shot, but we don't know.
 
i don't know the mmol numbers - but it looks like it's basically flat from the 115.

i can't tell you what to do. it's your choice. but if you shoot, i will check with you every hour or as often as you need.
 
I have regular syrup (no Karo here), and plenty strips and HC kibble.
So - would it be possible to shoot say .25 to err on the side of caution this AM or would that be counter productive?
 
go ahead and post a new post rather than editing. i almost missed your last edit.

there's no need to do a curve if you haven't given insulin. you could get a test every 4 hrs or so just to see what he's doing, but you don't have to do more often than that.

if you do shoot, you need to check in one hour and in 2 hours.
 
His numbers PMPS last night were : 154.8. 45 mins after time to give shot expired BG 176.40. 1h45m after time to give shot expired BG was162.
AMPS this morning 115.2 and now 45 mins later it's 120.6
 
i can see the US numbers in the ss, it was just the last one you'd given that i didn't know what it was. but i looked at the world tab and saw it was basically flat.

i think his numbers are hovering high enough overall that if he were mine, i would want him to have a little insulin, if you're comfy with it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top