1/2 Zeke PMPS 154;+2=178; +3 = 182; +4= 128

Good Morning LL

Well we had some food issues again this morning. Zeke threw up all his food after his shot. I've been trying to get him to eat but he's very hesitant. As a result, I am resorting to high carb food. The problem is Mr. Zeke doesn't like very many higher carb foods. I did discover however that he likes Weruva's Love Me Tender (17%). My food notes today are not going to be very accurate. I keep throwing all different formulas of food in front of him just to get him to eat. Getting ready to take a +2.


Zeke's Yesterday

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125; +1 = 95

Hoping that you'll find a low carb something for Mr. Zeke to like, and want to eat. Have you tried sprinkling a bit of Forti Flora on his food...? You can find it at PetFoodDirect.com (where I get it from). Try and have a good day.

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125; +1 = 95

Thanks Angela. I will order it so I'll have for next time.

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125;+1=95; +2= 54 Not Wanting to Eat

I may have to resort to syrup on the gums. He's not wanting to eat and we're just at +2.

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125;+1=95; +2= 54 Not Wanting to Eat

Did you try a different flavor of food after Zeke threw up? He may have a slight aversion to whatever it was he was eating.

The other thing you can do if this happens again is to try giving him 1/4 of a Pepsid AC tablet to settle his tummy. You'd give him the Pepsid and then feed 30 min. later.

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125;+1=95;+3.5= 46 Not Wanting to Eat

Thanks Sienne. I will try that next time.

Well he's dropped to 46. I don't want to put him in danger but I feel that this drop is possibly due more to lack of food than the actual dose itself. So, I'm wondering if I should not take a full reduction (if any). What do you think? I could try 1.0 vs the f1.0 I've been giving him. I don't want to rush the reductions.

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125;+1=95; +2= 54 Not Wanting to Eat

Yes. I decided to go with a higher carb as I was concerned he might not be willing to eat as much 7% as he would need.

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125;+1=95;+3.5= 46 DOSE ADVICE

If you think the 46 is a result of Zeke not eating, I wouldn't take a full reduction.

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125;+1=95;+3.5= 46 DOSE ADVICE

I agree with Sienne.

Does Zeke show any interest in eating any treats this morning?

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125;+1=95;+3.5= 46 DOSE ADVICE

I haven't tried the treats. Fortunately he likes the 17% Weruva. I just gave him another teaspoon of it. I'm hoping that will get him up enough that I won't need to feed him anymore this morning.

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125;+1=95;+3.5= 46 DOSE ADVICE

Glad to hear he ate some.

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125;+1=95;+3.5= 46 DOSE ADVICE

I think I'm on the other side of the fence...

Yesterday AM you saw a pink number.
One of two things -
Could have been a bounce.
Could have been due to the skipped shot the night before.

If it was a bounce, it cleared in 12 hours or less.
If it was from the skip, he got over that just as quickly, and last night's cycle wouldn't have been due to "depot" if the depot didn't seem to care at AMPS yesterday (unless yesterday's AMPS was a bounce and the depot helped it to clear so fast).
Either way, nice PM cycle last night, and he flirted with a reduction even after 2 helpings of 7%-9% snacks before he saw the 50's.

I understand the 46 today may be due to not keeping breakfast down.

But I'd still take the reduction.

Laura, I think you mentioned that after the Holidays you would not be around to test as often during the day? Is that still on the immediate horizon?

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125;+1=95;+3.5= 46 DOSE ADVICE

Carl, I believe the pink was a food spike (7%) exacerbated by the fact he hadn’t had insulin in 24 hours. The night before I only gave him 2%. I believe that’s possibly why he didn’t jump higher that evening. If I had only given him 2% at shot time perhaps he wouldn’t have spiked so much. Who knows.

This is something I was wondering about. The idea was that the 7% would help to get him surfing but he’s dropping so much that I have to give him 9% to keep him safe. Although the 9% is still within the allowable carb percentage for a diabetic cat, I was just wondering that since he’s going so low (though not enough to earn a reduction) that perhaps this is an indication that he’s getting just a little too much juice. On the other hand, he’s still rising to blue so a lower dose may cause him to go higher. I know dosing adjustments are based on the nadir, but I don’t want to see him start creeping up to higher blues if I reduce prematurely. Perhaps I should try giving him 9% at +1 instead of waiting until it looks like he’s dropping too fast? Maybe then he’ll surf the mid 60s to 80s. Thoughts?

My thought is if it was due to his getting sick at shot time, then why not hold the dose and see what happens tonight? If I find that I’m continuing to have to feed him higher carbs then perhaps I could cut the fat out and try a 1.0u tomorrow. However, my concern about reducing too quickly is still in the back of my mind, so” I dunno” what I want to do.

Yes. We’ve moved his shot time up so I can be around for a +3, maybe +4, before having to head out to work. Tomorrow, my schedule is still flexible so I can hang out later if needed (like I did today) but by middle of next week, it’s gonna be more difficult to do that. For that reason, I’m inclined to hold the dose now and see if he earns the reduction legitimately sometime within the next three days. If I find that he’s still dropping enough that he needs the 9% or higher to keep him safe then I’ll be more inclined to try the reduction next week.
Thoughts/concerns?

BTW – HAPPY NEW YEAR, Carl!!! So happy to hear that you found a new companion. Polly is one very lucky little kitty. I'm so very happy for you both.

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125;+1=95;+3.5= 46 DOSE ADVICE

BTW - I have a quesiton regarding food. I kinda think I'm having to feed him too much (quantity) to keep him safe. I was wondering if I should reduce the quantity and increase the % carbs instead (say 12%)? Although I would prefer not to resort to higher carbs it just seems like he's getting too much food. Does the amount I'm feeding him, as noted on his SS, appear to be about right or perhaps too much? I will weigh him when I get home to see if he's gaining weight.

I know you all say that the carbs are out of his system within 2 hours but it always makes me nervous when I have to feed him higher carbs especially later in the cycle but if he's getting too much food all I can do is replace quantity with higher carb content.

My DH just got a +10.5. Zeke's at 143.

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125;+1=95;+3.5= 46 DOSE ADVICE

I think that the primary purpose for tweaking the carb content and the timing of snacks at the start of the cycle is to attempt to stop the early drops, and steer the nadir to a more typical +6ish time frame. And not to artificially prop the nadir number up, per se. . In other words, you aren't trying to avoid him earning a reduction with the carbs. If you have to work to preempt a 49, then the dose is probably too high, IMO.

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125;+1=95;+3.5= 46 DOSE ADVICE

If you have to feed too much, or have to feed MC food routinely to feel like he's in safe numbers, then again, IMO, the easier solution is a lower dose. You want to work with the insulin, not have to fight against it.

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125;+1=95;+3.5= 46 DOSE ADVICE

Carl, what dose do you think would be good? 0.75u or 1.0u?

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125;+1=95;+3.5= 46 DOSE ADVICE

I'm not a fan of shaving doses. I think it's a good strategy for long-term diabetics, and for kitties with a history of failed reductions, but I don't think Zeke fits either of those categories. So I would say .75u and let Zeke decide how that works for him.

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125;+1=95;+3.5= 46 DOSE ADVICE

I see you shot 1u and I probably would have gone with that shave this time just because of all the crazy factors involved lately and the fact that he got sick this morning.

But Carls points are well taken.
--if you have to feed 12% routinely! the dose is likely too high
--he's newly dx and I would try to stick with the reductions as written in the protocol (0.25u for drop below 50) because he's not failing them
--I would continue to try and find a LC food to give consistently that,as Carl said, slows the drop but doesn't prop up the nadir. We want him to learn to surf and not so quickly earn reductions

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125;+1=95;+3.5= 46 DOSE ADVICE

Marje - what do you mean this time? Just for tonight? Or are you saying that reducing to 1.0u is ok and I should give it a try? Hold for six cycles unless a reduciton is earned?

So as for your comment on finding a LC food that slows the drop, I take it you mean that with this reduction to 1u I could try the 7% and see if that will get him surfing? Is that what you meant in essence?

Thank you both for your advice.

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke AMPS 125;+1=95;+3.5= 46 DOSE ADVICE

I'm sorry. I meant for this reduction. I'm not a big fan of dose hopping by shooting one dose one cycle, then changing it, then changing it again unless there is a safety issue. IMHO, I think as long as you shot 1u, stick with it for now unless he earns a reduction or fails this one. There is no requirement to hold it six cycles. If it becomes apparent in three cycles that it's a failed reduction, go back to f1u (last good dose because he only got to 48).

I did agree with Sienne and Sandy when I first read the condo this morning but as the day unfolded and I read on his SS how much you fed him, I thought a reduction was in order. You had already shot 1u and, as I said, he's had some cycle challenges lately.

Yes...either 7 or perhaps 9%. Again......experimentation.

You're welcome

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke PMPS 154;+2=178; +3 = 182 BOUNCE?

Is this a bounce? I'm not feeding him 7% as he's not dropping.

 

Re: 1/2 Zeke PMPS 154;+2=178; +3 = 182 BOUNCE?

Likely is...but not a bad one. Nice and flat. I'll always take a blue bounce over the alternative