DOSECREASE Rocky? PMPS +3 395 +4 369

Good morning,

Rocky visited the 200s last night but is back up again this morning. I did not testing at all after 1AM. I really needed to get some sleep.

I still believe I am seeing a difference in his skin by applying Fungisan to his bare areas.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=112466

Re: 1/24 Rocky AMPS 350

Hi guys .. fingers crossed rocky makes his way back down today .. Sometimes, we just have to get some sleep and that's ok! Glad to hear you are seeing skin improvement .. have a great weekend!

Re: 1/24 Rocky AMPS 350

I hope Rocky can slide back down to some pretty yellows for you today I know, sleep is important and it's so hard to get up sometimes, I'm glad you got some rest. I hope his skin continues to improve for you. Have a good Friday! :razz:

Re: 1/24 Rocky AMPS 350

Good morning, Tina.

Rocky is starting out today better than he did yesterday, so let's hope he'll slide down to the lovely yellows for you.

So glad the skin condition seems to be responding to the treatment. I hope he continues to improve. Sending healing vines to him!

Re: 1/24 Rocky AMPS 350 +3 336 +10 354

Thanks guys.. it was an emotional day for me. I took two of my favorite foster cats up for adoption today, as well as two kittens from a litter of three. Lots of tears..

Rocky is still not doing well, even on this increased insulin dose. I am getting very nervous and worried about this long stay in the 300s. If you look at his SS, he has been MOSTLY in the pink since January 19.. for 5 days now. Honestly, I really do not feel like holding the dose to 1.25 for three days. I don't think his body can handle it, and i cannot afford another DKA.

I really think I need to increase his does to at least 1.5 u.

Re: 1/24 Rocky AMPS 350 +3 336 +10 354

How's he acting, tina? The 5 P's - purring, preening, peeing, pooping and playing - report helps to fill out the picture.

Re: 1/24 Rocky PMPS 358

Some purring when pet. Not much preening in my presence. Pooping is fine. (no diarrhea). Still peeing. (Not sure what a normal volume of pee is for him.) He seems to hold it in and pee only once or 2x per day. My other cats are peeing all of the time.

I tossed a plastic ball to him and he picked it up and shook it, so seemed somewhat interested in it but not thrilled.

Every time I open the room to check on him he after eating he is sitting in that almost BUN position, raised up off of the ground a little on all fours. He is still burping after he eats even though I he is now eating 3x a day instead of 2x, the same amount of food.

If he is burping he has gas from something.

Re: 1/24 Rocky PMPS 358

I would give him one more cycle at 1.25u and if he doesn't come down any into yellow numbers, I' d increase to 1.75u.

We might need to talk about you giving him R (regular) insulin. R is a bolus insulin that can be used to bring the numbers down a bit in sick cats or cats prone to DKA. We use it for other purposes but for Rocky, it's to get his numbers down to avoid another bout with DKA. It's a fast acting insulin...in and out in about 4 hours but could help until you can get the basal insulin to the right dose per the protocol.

Re: 1/24 Rocky PMPS 358

Marje do you think a stressful event could have caused those 400 numbers the day and night that the new vet told me to raise Rocky's dose to 2.0u?

I had just put Astro, a 6 month old coming of age male, into a room right next to the bathroom where Rocky was and he just cried, and cried and cried. It was awful. The other cats in the room where playing and making all kinds of noise. I don't think my husband or I got any sleep either that night. It was also the first night I began blood testing on Rocky's ear every two hours and I'm sure we were both very nervous about that.

So, the dose was raised to 2.0u and then he went into the greens. Yes, we hit a few low greens, but mostly they were OK green numbers at 2.0u.

I am wondering if we should try 1.50u before 1.75u? Should it be a gradual ride down or should we just want to see those lower numbers ASAP? 1.75u is closer to 2.0u.. :roll:

There are a few things taht Rocky still has going for him. Number one, he has a great appetite. He LOVES to eat. Then, his poops are pretty normal and regular. He does not drink an excessive amount of water. In fact, like most cats, he barely drinks any water at all. And he is not and has not vomited anything.

I am still sorely lacking in sleep and had a big emotional day today. Seven of my foster cats are now up for adoption at the pet stores but while I am happy about that, I feel like I've lost half of my heart. My house is so quiet without my kittens. I can't stand it.. LOL!! Also a lot of crying today. I hate goodbyes.

Re: 1/24 Rocky PMPS 358

Hi there
any ketone test results today?

I'm glad you didn't increase the Lantus dose. Lantus can't be rushed. Go 4 cycles with this dose and then re-evaluate

In the mean time, to shoot down those relentless pesky pinks, get a bottle of Humulin R, a fast acting insulin that is available without prescription just about everywhere (I'm not sure where you are). It will allow you to get Rockys numbers into a safer range and get more insulin into him quick, bridging the action gap while you patiently wait at least 4 cycles and methodically raise the Lantus dose.

Call your CVS, Rite Aid etc. and ask before you go. Back in the day I paid $35 for a vial. Not sure about now. It's not fussy about handling the way lantus is and it lasts like forever.

For a kitty with a recent history of DKA extra vigilance is required. If that same kitty is having other health issues even greater vigilance is required. You should keep some on hand

Before I launch into all of the whys and what fors of R use under these circumstances, if you are interested in this technique are you prepared and able to monitor very closely? Initially testing is required once an hour for 5 hours after shooting.

I'll look for your response

Re: 1/24 Rocky PMPS 358

Humulin R now runs about $90/vial so, if you decide you want to go this route, buy it's equivalent at Walmart. They call it Novolon R and it runs about $25.00. No script needed.

Certainly you can try 1.5u first if you like. I was just looking at his nadirs now and applying the TR protocol. But if you are uncomfortable increasing that much to 1.75u, it's ok.

It's very hard to say what caused his early 400s. He could have gone low and bounced up so the night you did the curve, he was bouncing. It's just I possible to really know. But I think the move to 2u was too much too soon.

Re: 1/24 Rocky PMPS 358 +3 395

395 just now.. I really don't like this..

I don't understand the Humulin. I'm going to be giving him that, as well as his normal dose of insulin? Won't that be too much?

I definitely want his numbers down. I think that he will feel better and I hate the idea that with his bg so high it is causing damage to his organs.

I can go buy the one Marje suggested at Walmart tomorrow.

I'll make sure that when I dose him with it that I have the 5 hours I need to monitor him. Wouldn't do it without you guys!! nailbite_smile

Maybe I'll do the increase to 1.75u tomorrow morning.. Would that be all right? :?:

Re: DOSECREASE Rocky to 1.75u in morning, 1/25? PMPS +3 395

yes, you will be giving him both insulins. two different syringes, 2 very different doses. Your regular dose of Lantus and a tiny dose of the R.

you don't want to combine use of R with a dose increase when you are new to using R and especially when we don't know how Rocky will respond to it.

When you've bought it, say so here and one of us who have experience with it will figure out the "right" time to use it (not every time is right) and will stay with you through the 5 hours. DON'T try it the first time without guidance.

you will start with a tiny dose - 0.1u, and then test every hour for the next 5 hours to see what it does. so make sure you work that into your plans. you can practice getting this dose using colored water (tea, coke, food coloring) so that you can see it. you want to be able to draw up one unit (1.0u) and then hold the syringe needle up and "screw" the plunger in to squeeze a drop out of the needle. you should be able to get 10 drops out of one unit. You'll need to practice it.

You'll also want to make sure you have plenty of test strips and the high carb supplies, just in case you need them. of course, you should have those things all the time.

There are pictures of tiny doses on the New to the Group sticky. I assume you've found it by now. It's just this page at the top of everyone's posts. If you haven't read those yellow starred posts, they really are essential. There is a wealth of information there and it's pretty much all important.

it's a strong insulin, so it will likely bring him down out of this range. it is quicker in and then wears off.

Are you still shooting at 8/8 pacific time?

Re: DOSECREASE Rocky to 1.75u in morning, 1/25? PMPS +3 395

Hi Julie,

Yes, still shooting 8am/8pm PST. I never give the shot right on that dot at 8 though. It's typically about 8:08 or 8:10. That's when I happen to look at the clock when I go to put the syringe and needle in the trash.

I don't know if it had anything to do with his high numbers, but I am switching his poke treats. I think I'm going to stop giving him the sardines and instead give him one treat of "Origen, Tundra cat."

http://www.orijen.ca/blog/products/cat- ... cat-treat/

OMG. I have NEVER seen him so excited since I've had him, to receive one of these treats!! He wanted more immediately, but I only gave him the one. But he will be getting them at every pokey pokey.

FYI, Sandy if you read this, I have not been able to get another ketone test. That is sort of hit and miss with him. I have to catch him in the act of peeing. He won't do it for me when I am in the room.

Re: DOSECREASE Rocky to 1.75u in morning, 1/25? PMPS +3 395

Tina & Rocky said:

Maybe I'll do the increase to 1.75u tomorrow morning.. Would that be all right? :?:

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I recommend one more cycle at the current dose.
Anything less than 4 cycles does not give a dose the opportunity to show what it can or cannot do.

Tina & Rocky said:

Wouldn't do it without you guys!!

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We would not recommend anyone begin using R without guidance from experienced users.

Tina & Rocky said:

I can go buy the one Marje suggested at Walmart tomorrow.

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You don't have to use it, all things considered I think it's a good idea to have it on hand should you need it.
Sometimes just having it in the fridge brings a kittys numbers down.

Re: DOSECREASE Rocky to 1.75u in morning, 1/25? PMPS +3 395

I feel like we just brought Rocky's insulin dose down too low and now he doesn't have enough in his shed to help him. If he were in the hospital right now, they would definitely be giving him the higher dose in the morning. They don't wait for cycles to bring down those numbers.

I do worry about dehydration with him although he is getting canned only food and the (6)tbs of water per day. He just seems to pee more than a healthy cat.

Does giving them fluids bring their numbers down? I realize that is not a reason to give fluids, I am just curious if it could bring him too low, even if he really needs the fluids.

Sandy and others--

I looked at the SS for many of your kitties. I don't see anywhere in those spreadsheets where your cat is going through multiple days of continuous, steady high numbers. You are all increasing the dose when your cat goes up.

In addition Sandy, I noticed that you moved the time you gave the shot a lot. I'm not saying that is good or bad, I am just noticing it.

Re: 1/24 Rocky PMPS 358

Marje and Gracie said:

Humulin R now runs about $90/vial so, if you decide you want to go this route, buy it's equivalent at Walmart. They call it Novolon R and it runs about $25.00. No script needed.

Certainly you can try 1.5u first if you like. I was just looking at his nadirs now and applying the TR protocol. But if you are uncomfortable increasing that much to 1.75u, it's ok.

It's very hard to say what caused his early 400s. He could have gone low and bounced up so the night you did the curve, he was bouncing. It's just I possible to really know. But I think the move to 2u was too much too soon.

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