3/9 Bonk PMPS 416

Good morning all,

Here is yesterdays post:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=115077

Bonk is doing well today, sleeping in his favorite window. It's been over 24 hours since I've seen a reading over 500, so I'm seeing improvement. He ate all the food I put out for him at bedtime, but he is eating a little light at breakfast. We will see how that goes. I am getting concerned he might be a little dehydrated though, even despite all the water he has been drinking. I might call the vet tomorrow and ask about doing Sub Q fluids at home every few days until we get him stabilized.

Other than that, he was more active last night than he has been in days, so that was a good sign. He looks pretty weak though. Hopefully that will reverse as his numbers improve.

Re: 3/9 Bonk AMPS 346

Hi Brian, That's great you have the food down and are feeding Weruva "Cats in the Kitchen" line and FF Classics. Sounds like you're very organized with having Dr. Lisa's link handy on your phone when shopping. That's a great idea to contact your Vet on the Sub Q fluids, as I know they helped Maggie with the Megacolon as well as her crd. I hope Bonk starts feeling better today as well as his appy.

Re: 3/9 Bonk AMPS 346

Hi Brian,
It's great that Bonk has a lower number this morning. I hope that he will settle into the new dose and routine. Keep following the protocol and keep both kitties on the wet food. You are sure to see continued improvement. I'm very glad that Ann can help you with both conditions. She has a ton of experience.

Have a fine day,

Ella & Rusty

Re: 3/9 Bonk AMPS 346

Morning Brian and BonkyDonk!

Boy you got this happenin' already - good work guys!!! Have a wonderful day!

Re: 3/9 Bonk AMPS 346

Good morning Brian

Two cycles in a row for Bonk with PS in the pinks! C'mon juice, keep working your magic!!
It's good to hear his activity level is up. Sounds like even though he is weakened, he still feels a little better Those blacks and reds are pretty hard on a guy, so a couple more cycles in the lower ranges will continue to perk him up :smile:

Re: 3/9 Bonk AMPS 346

Hey Brian!!

Looking better! Stinky pinkies aren't great, but they're better than those radical reds and crappy blackies! (anti jinx) Baby steps, but that's where we all start!

Hopefully you'll be seeing some mellow yellows soon..maybe even today! Come on Bonk...you can do it!!

You're really doing well for so soon in this dance, and Bonk's already showing you some signs of feeling better too. That's the most wonderful thing. Sometimes we get so engrossed in the numbers, we forget to pay attention to the fact that they're acting more and more like the healthier younger cats we used to know.

Keep up the great work!

Re: 3/9 Bonk AMPS 346 +7 232

Some good news/bad news this afternoon. The good news is, I just did Bonk's +7, and I got the lowest number I've seen, 232. The bad news is, his appetite hasn't improved any today. I've gotten some food into him, but not as much as he should, which is probably contributing to the lower number. You would think with the lower number, he would be feeling better, so I'm not sure what is going on. He ate a little caned food, and I got him to eat about 1/8th cup of Evo. But not much else. I left another serving of Evo with a 1/4 pepcid AC in a pill pocket. I'll see if he eats that. (he had one last night too)

I hate to do it, but I'm considering giving him another appetite stimulant tonight. My vet gave me four to give him, I've given him two so far. They work great, but I'm sure they can't be too good for him. Either that, or I'll bring him some of that very high carb canned food he loves, and see if that will jump start his appetite. Any other suggestions?

Thanks Ann, Ella, Lyresa, Kim, and Chris for the great comments and words of encouragement!

Re: 3/9 Bonk AMPS 346 +7 232

How much IS Bonk eating, Brian?

You can try finger feeding, as well as getting some baby food (Beechnut chicken and broth or turkey and broth are both good) and see if either of those will perk up his appetite.

Without going back over several days worth of condo's, I don't remember if you have how much Bonk weighs now, and if he's underweight, overweight or about right.

Re: 3/9 Bonk AMPS 346 +7 232

Hi Chris,

I've gotten him to eat a bit more since my last message, which is good. I think so far today, he has eaten about one 3oz can of food worth, and about 1/4 cup of Evo Turkey and Chicken dry food. And the day isn't over yet. But I'm feeling a little better that I have him eating something tonight. I also got the 1/4 tablet of Pepcid in him too.

He never was willing to be finger fed, even when healthy. If I had the food on my hand, he wouldn't touch it. Put it on the floor, it disappeared fast. Every cat has a different personality. The baby food is a great idea though.

As for weight, he is still overweight, even though he has lost a lot. At his diagnosis of megacolon, and before the cleanout (the first week of January), he weighed 18.6 pounds. Now he weighs 15.8 pounds. Since my vet already told me he might have a little bit of Hepatic Lipidosis based on his blood test, I am concerned about any case of not eating. Which is the only reason I even consider using the appetite stimulant on him, it's way too important he keeps eating.

Re: 3/9 Bonk AMPS 346 +7 232

Hello. Welcome to Lantus Land. I just got caught up on your introduction from yesterday. You have such beautiful kitties. I'm sorry you have to be here, but this is the best place to be to get great support for Bonk. I hope you get him to eat more today. Here is some information I was given before when Furball didn't want to eat. I saved it for future reference.

-sometimes in order to get a cat to eat you even have to resort to dry it is more important that they eat. there are a couple low carb / grain free brands -- EVO and wellness core.

-making a buffet to give him choices
- heating food

sprinkle food with :
- forta flora -- a probiotic you can get at vets or online. is very smelly and cats love the taste of it.
- parm. cheese
- smashed crumbles of dry food
- bonito tuna flakes
- halo chicken treats -- crumble into dust over food
- poor a little water from tuna in water over food ( I use low sodium/no sodium added as other kinds in water has veg. broth in it and I assume that means onions, which are toxic to cats-- check labels)
-powdered oregano. yep sounds weird . but some cats like it and it will entice them to eat.

other ideas of foods to offer your kitty to stim appy:
- trader joe tuna for cats
-baby food -- beechnut turkey and broth or chicken and broth. they have no onions or other additives. some babyfoods have onions . please read labels if you can't find beechnut.
- kentucky fried chicken
- deli turkey /chicken
- plain cooked ( boiled or baked ) chicken breast
-canned chicken for people (watch the label that their are no onions)
- chicken broth -- low sodium

Re: 3/9 Bonk AMPS 346 +7 232

Having another disease makes it a little more difficult to say what might be going on, but it sounds like you're getting enough food down him for now anyway. It's hard to say when you start adding in dry because it's usually not all eaten at one time. (and since I ditched all dry almost a year ago, I don't have any idea how many calories per cup Evo contains)

The one thing I was thinking is that since his numbers are coming down, he's not as hungry. When our cats numbers are really high (like before diagnosis), they eat huge amounts of food, but still lose weight because without insulin, the food isn't able to be broken down enough to actually provide nutrition for the cells, so they eat more and more trying to compensate.

Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70...so if 15.8lbs was his "perfect" weight, he'd need about 285 calories a day to maintain that weight. (but since you say he's still overweight, that's more than he'd really need to be eating)

I'm glad to hear he's eating better though. I know it's a worry for you considering the possibility of the Hepatic Lipidosis. Might be worth talking to your vet about giving you more of the stimulant to use if you need to

Edited to add..Carla gave you our list of "tricks" to help get them to eat better. Hopefully you'll find something that works for Bonk!

Re: 3/9 Bonk AMPS 346 +7 232

Hi Brian and Bonk...welcome to LL! I read your intro condo yesterday, but things over here have been so hectic that I haven't had a chance to pop in and formally welcome you until now! This really is the greatest place ever...so much knowledge, not just about FD, but about everything "cat". And, tons of support.

I'm glad Bonk is eating better tonight. Sending along more appy vines...hopefully he'll keep eating easily for you. Sometimes the appy stimulants are just necessary...we do have some members who use them regularly. Kitties with multiple issues are a balance act, and I'm sure you'll find what works best for Bonk. I'm so glad Ann weighed in on the megacolon....she is an awesome bean who we all learned a lot from when her sweet Maggie was dealing with that issue.

Once again, welcome aboard!!

I got him to eat some more , so it looks like we are fine for tonight. No need for the appetite stimulant this time through, hopefully things will improve. Are these things safe for long term use?

That little bit of dry food sure throws everything out of whack! He was at 232 at AMPS +7, before eating the dry, and jumped to 416 at PMPS. And that was the low carb Evo. I need to get this appetite problem taken care of soon. Maybe I'm trying to change too much at once here. Maybe I should let him have some dry for now as part of his diet, use more insulin to compensate. Then once I have his blood glucose under control, slowly finish changing his diet to all canned later. He seems to be more willing to eat the dry.

On the other hand, he is feeling better. He put up a little bit of a fight tonight trying to give him his shot. My first attempt, he jumped back and ran from me (seems poking him with the needle hurt a bit this time.) I had to catch him to give him his shot. He was not amused. :YMSIGH:

carfurby said:

Hello. Welcome to Lantus Land. I just got caught up on your introduction from yesterday....

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Thanks for the welcome Carla! And thanks for the great reference. Thankfully I won't need it tonight, but I will save it for future reference!

Chris & China said:

The one thing I was thinking is that since his numbers are coming down, he's not as hungry. When our cats numbers are really high (like before diagnosis), they eat huge amounts of food, but still lose weight because without insulin, the food isn't able to be broken down enough to actually provide nutrition for the cells, so they eat more and more trying to compensate.

Click to expand...

Thanks again Chris, I like this idea, and hope it is a possibility. I will keep watching, as I did get enough food in him for tonight. The Evo has 600 calories per cup, so that 1/4 cup he had, plus the canned, based on the calorie requirements you listed should be enough.

Amy&TrixieCat said:

Hi Brian and Bonk...welcome to LL!....

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Thanks Amy for the great welcome! I fully understand about things being hectic, I think that describes my life! :smile: I will certainly bring it up with my vet next time I talk to her about the need for appetite stimulants long term. Hopefully though, as we get the sugar levels in control, they will become less of a necessity.

Thanks again!

Try getting some FortiFlora. It contains animal digest, which is what they spray on the outside of dry kibble to make it taste so darn good to our cats. You might be able to get it from your vet too, but it'll probably cost more. You only need to sprinkle a little of a pack on, so each individual pack would probably last you for several meals.

You could also try smashing some of the Evo and sprinkling it on top of his wet food. That way you wouldn't be feeding so much of the Evo..just enough to get him interested in eating.

Carla gave you a list of a lot of other things you can try to help get him interested in eating. Sometimes you just have to play around until you find the right solution for your cat!

Welcome Brian and Bonk!

So sorry to be just getting over to welcome you both. You've gotten lots of good info and I'm glad to hear Bonk ate a little better today.

I hope the clean out helped his megacolon and he's feeling much better. I'm assuming they gave him some steroids that caused the diabetes? It looks like you are really on top of his treatment...he's a lucky guy.

I hope he will eat without the dry food so we can see when he needs a dose increase. Sometimes if they are high and flat, we can raise the dose after four cycles but we don't went to do that if he's even eating a little dry food.

Any info on what tests indicate to your vet that he might have FHL? I'm just curious because it is not uncommon for FDs to be prone to cholangiohepatitis and triaditis and you would see some elevated liver enzyme levels in the bloodwork.

Glad to have you all with us handsome boy cats you have there

Sorry for just getting back here. It's been a very busy day at work.

Chris, interesting idea on the FortiFlora, it's worth a shot. Also crushing up the Evo can't hurt either. He is still more interested in the dry food. Thanks for the suggestions. And yes, I printed Carla's list.

Thanks for the welcome Marje! Yes, the clean out helped his megacolon considerably. And the medications are keeping things under control for the most part. But no, no steroids. At least none that they told me about. But then again, the vets office won't miss an opportunity to charge me for something. :roll: I think this was caused by the more traditional problem of being so overweight. In face, I think it was there since before the megacolon diagnosis, I just missed the symptoms. He had been getting more and more lethargic for months, but I thought it was constipation related.

As for the FHL, it's just the elevated liver enzymes. It's otherwise undiagnosed, but a possibility. She said her next test would be an ultrasound on his liver, but we decided to treat some of the other issues going on for now, since for the most part, he is eating. If he slows on his eating any further though, we will have to put him through more tests.

Thanks again!

I was just thinking about you and Bonk, Brian!!

Hope you find something that sparks his appetite, and yes, while we'd rather not have him eating dry, if crushing a little and sprinkling it on the wet gets him to eat it, it's better than not eating.

It's really important for you to try to get some tests in during that PM cycle. We know it's hard, especially when you have to get up and act like you're doing something productive at work, but it's a very important piece of this puzzle we call diabetes.

If you can even get a +2 or +3 it'd help...and also, those are great tests to get any time. I like to call them my "crystal ball" tests, because if the +2 is lower than the pre-shot, it's a good tip that later on in the cycle, you're going to want to get more tests in, even if it means setting an alarm. My cell phone alarm is my best friend! After awhile, you'll get to the point where you can get up in the middle of the night, get a test in, and probably not even remember getting up......We all become pretty darn good at "sleep testing"....LOL

Hope the rest of your week goes a little easier!

i would try everything on the list for tempting kitties to eat that Carla gave you before giving the dry food. The suggestion Chris made about sprinkling the top of the canned with dry food that's been pulverized is a good one too. Some people use a coffee grinder to pulverize the food. It is important that he eat, but boy if anything else will work besides dry kibble, i'd go that direction first.

on her list i would add rotisserie chicken - most kitties can not resist the lure of rotisserie chicken! :lol: also, the reason Oregano is enticing to some kitties is because it's a member of the catnip family - so as well as oregano, you can also try sprinkling on catnip. some kitties love it.

kibble carbs stay in their bodies for a long time - a day or more. We just had a kitty, Scooter, go from 5.5u doses to zero in one day after it was discovered he was a kibble-sneak who was eating the other kitties dry food. once the crunchies were gone from the house, so was the insulin. it can really make an enormous difference.

but again, if you can't get him to eat anything except dry, then dry it is. and we'll call Bonk a kibble-addict! ;-) (just teasing, of course!)

great to see those peeks of yellow yesterday & today on his spreadsheet!

i think it's important to note on his ss when you give him dry food. that would make a difference in how/when we would suggest dose changes for him.

hope he'll come down tomorrow, right after he eats a big breakfast of yummy low carb canned food! ;-) :lol:

Hi Brian,
I'm glad Bonk ate a decent amount of food tonight. :smile:
And I hope he'll eat better tomorrow.
It's so hard when they don't want to eat!

By the way, I really like the name Bonk.

Thanks for thinking of us Chris, the crushed Evo idea will be on the list of things I'll try. And I will try and get some PM tests in. I have been trying to test before I go to bed, which is usually around PM +4, but last night I was just dragging. I did just go and get a +3 for you though, but it went up. He did have a little dry tonight though, he won't eat a pill pocket without it.

Thanks Julie, he definitely is a Kibble addict! The worse it is for him, the more he likes it too. His favorite is the Burger King of the kitty world, Meow Mix.

I have him eating well tonight, but I will try everything on that list. In the meantime, I'll do my best to keep him off the dry. I will also note the dry food in the remarks too, that's a good idea.

Thanks Mariko!