6/11 - Oliver - PMPS - 162. Gave shot.

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Re: 6/11 - Oliver - AMPS 136. 1 hr later-129, Still stallin

I am really getting discouraged. I know it is important to inject Oliver twice a day, but I am afraid to inject below 150. I am beginning to think I am never going to get him regulated.
 
Re: 6/11 - Oliver - AMPS 136. 1 hr later-129, Still stallin

Good Morning,

I just want to offer a little encouragement - your spreadsheet looks really good in comparison to the spreadsheets of some of our more bouncy kitties. I don't see any red or black but even if they were there, it doesn't mean that kitten can't one day be regulated. I've been on the FDMB board since about May 8th, 2014 and if you look at my ss prior to this date, it is almost consistently red and black - and this represents 3 months with these kinds of numbers. There was less testing but nonetheless, you can tell that Pixie's numbers didn't stray too much from the red and black.

So please do not despair because you are doing a superb job with Oliver. I've been watching these last few days and I have noted your fear with finding him in a Hypo condition. So you have to do what makes you feel comfortable and safe - you're shooting lower than you ever thought you would and I'm sure that with time, your confidence will build and you'll be able to shoot lower and lower numbers. So good luck today, I'm off to Toronto today but will check back in this evening to see how you're making out. Chin up kiddo, you're doing all the right things for Oliver and the members here are wonderfully, talented individuals who will assist and hand-hold through this process.

Have a great day and I'll be thinking about the two of you today!

Anne
 
Re: 6/11 - Oliver - AMPS 136. 1 hr later-129, Still stallin

Are you going to be around to test today? Do you have HC food if he drops too low? Remember, you can use food to steer the cycle. The 136 and 129 are basically the same number, more flat than falling.

The only way to get comfortable with shooting low is to do it.
 
Re: 6/11 - Oliver - AMPS 136. 1 hr later-129, Still stallin

Caringcdn - Thanks for the encouraging words.

I do have high carb food and Karo syrup. Plenty of test strips. And I can be home all day to test. Still afraid, though. I am getting better at this. I have more confidence that I can raise his BG if he drops too low. But I still have a huge fear factor.
 
Re: 6/11 - Oliver - AMPS 136. 1 hr later-129, Still stallin

It's up to you. You have to be comfortable. Many people shoot where you are at right now.

I'll be around this morning.

If you're going to be around to test and you have the HC, I would say take advantage of those lower preshot numbers and see if you can get him into some nice healing numbers.
 
Re: 6/11 - Oliver - AMPS 136. 1 hr later-129, Still stallin

Tested again - 125. If he would just go up a little, I would shoot.

He ate really well this morning - a whole can of FF classic.

My vet told me to stop testing and to give him the injection if he was eating.
 
Re: 6/11 - Oliver - AMPS 136. 1 hr later-129, Still stallin

You have to be comfortable shooting. You're holding the syringe, not your vet. :smile:
 
Re: 6/11 - Oliver - AMPS 136. 1 hr later-129, Still stallin

I've had many cats over the last 30 years. I have dealt with kidney failure, cancer, asthma, hyperthyroidism, cardiomyopathy, pancreatitis, sudden heart attack. I can give fluids, injections, do tube feedings. I have dealt with chemotherapy. Oliver is my first diabetic cat and I am finding this really hard.

Right now, I have two cats. Oliver is diabetic. Snugs has cancer (a very rare parathyroid carcinoma.) He also is at risk for congestive heart failure and he has hyperthyroidism. I spend my life monitoring these two boys. Snugs threw up this morning. (A very rare occurrence for him.) And he is drinking more than usual. I am very worried about him. He has his 3-month check up with both the cardiologist and the oncologist tomorrow and I am worried that I am going to get bad news.

I might have to pack up Oliver and take with us to the vet tomorrow. I am afraid to leave him alone.
 
Re: 6/11 - Oliver - AMPS 136. 1 hr later-129, Still stallin

I just don't get it. 9:30 reading was 100. I have skipped the morning shot again today.
 
Re: 6/11 - Oliver - AMPS 136. + 2hrs - 100. Skipped shot a

I don't know if this has been suggested yet. Would you feel more comfortable shooting less insulin if his BG is in the low 100s? The goal is to find a dose that you can shoot twice a day. Maybe go down to .25u. If Oliver needs the .5u, his BG will be higher than it is now at presort times. But if you went to .25u, you might be more comfortable shooting it even when his BG is in the low 100s, and it would give you a few days to get comfortable shooting lower BGs. Then if you had to increase back to .5u, then you might have a few lower preshots under your belt, and if not, you'd know the .5u would take him where he needs to be.

Just a thought I had. Let's see what some others have to say.

I know the first time I shot low I was on pins and needles. I was shooting a lot more insulin that you are, and I was shooting when Cobb was under 100. He, of course, bounced from it, so I didn't really need to worry, but I remember the apprehension. I stalled for two hours and got up every hour that night until I knew he was on his way up.

~Suzanne
 
Re: 6/11 - Oliver - AMPS 136. + 2hrs - 100. Skipped shot a

If I shoot .25 U I will have to get new syringes. Mine have only 1U markings. I can eyeball .5U, but I don't think I will be able to do .25U. Any suggestions? Do I need a prescription to get syringes? I know I had one for my first supply of syringes.
 
Re: 6/11 - Oliver - AMPS 136. + 2hrs - 100. Skipped shot a

I use these syringes. They have the 1/2 unit marked on them. If you order from ADW, you do not need a prescription. Even if you stick with .5u, these will mean you don't have to eyeball it.
 
Re: 6/11 - Oliver - AMPS 136. + 2hrs - 100. Skipped shot a

Thanks for the info. I just ordered the syringes you recommended.
 
Re: 6/11 - Oliver - AMPS 136. + 2hrs - 100. Skipped shot a

Good idea on shooting a reduced dose. That may be your ticket. Please don't get discouraged.....it is a very frustrating dance, this dire betus, I know. We just have to keep on keeping on and doing the best that we can. Spot was regulated...now he isn't, so I really do know your frustration. Part of me is like....come on Spot....what's going on here and the other part of me is like.....he seems to be doing well and is happy and healthy in every aspect but his bg's. All I can do is sigh and carry on. At least we have FDMB to help keep our spirits up!!
 
Re: 6/11 - Oliver - Skipped shot. Wondering about his diabet

A little history on Oliver.

During the last few months of 2013, Oliver started to throw up fairly regularly and he began to slowly lose weight. The vomiting wasn't an every day occurrence and the weight loss wasn't dramatic, so the whole thing kind of crept up on me. Then, in January, he threw up blood. By this time, I had realized that he was losing weight and the blood freaked me out. I took him to the Pet ER and he was admitted to the hospital for 3 days. They did x-rays, an ultra-sound and multiple blood tests. There was no sign of diabetes at this time. The x-rays and ultrasound revealed a shadow near his pancreas and the final diagnosis was IBD, lymphoma, or possibly pancreatitis.

Oliver was put on 5 mg. of prednisolone twice a day and then, two weeks later, the dose was lowered to 5 mg. once a day. He has had no vomiting episodes since he started on the pred. (except for the occasional hairball.)

When I took him in for a routine check-up in April, the vet found diabetes. (His BG was over 400.) However, when they checked his fructosamine, it was not as high as the vet expected. Speculation was that this was prednisone induced diabetes, so she lowered his dose to 2.5 mg. once a day and told me to feed him only canned food. (She did not specify low carb food, so I feed him some "bad" food during this month.) I took him back a month later and his BG was still above 400. His fructosamine was marginally better but was still above high normal. That is when the vet put him on 2U of insulin twice a day.

I have had problems with this since I started the insulin because of my fear of hypoglycemia. After I started the insulin, I talked my vet into lowering the pred. to 1.25 mg. once a day. I also talked her into lowering the insulin to 1U twice a day. Then I found this web site and began feeding him low carb canned food.

Here is what I am wondering about. Is it possible that Oliver's diabetes was prednisone induced and that the lower pred. doses and the small amounts of insulin that I am giving him are allowing his pancreas to recover? His readings just seem off to me. I skipped his shot this morning and his BG has been dropping since I started checking this morning. The reading I just took (+4) was 97 and I took it about 15 minutes after he ate half a can of FF. I have to confess that I skipped his pred. last night and maybe that is why his BG is so low today. However, I have skipped it before and I haven't seen this effect.

Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on this? Is it possible that Oliver is going into remission with the lowered doses of insulin and pred?
 
Re: 6/11 - Oliver - AMPS 136. Question about remission.

Pred can definitely cause diabetes. Oliver could go into remission quickly. I've been here since November, January on a much more regular basis and seen cats go into remission in 2 months. I too have dealt with many of the diseases you mention and find diabetes so difficult. If I were in your shoes, I would reduce the dose like suggested and try to shoot twice a day. If he is still in normal numbers but not too low to shoot you might feel safer. I would. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
 
Re: 6/11 - Oliver - AMPS 136. Question about remission.

It could very well be that skipping the pred last night let his BG come down. Yes, pred can cause diabetes AND it can raise the BG temporarily while being given. For example, Melissa's Tarragon is asthmatic as well as diabetic and needs more insulin during allergy season when he has to have pred. I think lowering the dose is a good idea since you have felt you need to skip so often. Lantus does need to be consistently dosed.

However, to go into remission you need to learn to shoot lower as well. You haven't been at this very long, but you will gain confidence in your ability to steer BG w/ food. If you are there to be able to monitor and control BG w/ food shooting even green numbers isn't a problem. Monitoring BG is the key and it will keep you in control. We have a safety margin built into that 50 mg/dl number, many cats go below that without actually having a hypo, but we try to keep them above it for safety sake. It's like slowing when you first see a stop sign, rather than waiting to jam on the brakes when you are 10 feet away.

There may be other ways to keep the the IBD under control as well. You need to find the cause which could be as simple as a food allergy. Try feeding a unique protein. Grain free foods are important for IBD and raw grain free is even better. Then maybe you could stop the pred all together and Oliver's pancreas could recover. It's the long term use of pred that damages the pancreas. I think there is a similar group to this for IBD on Yahoo. I know that when Emma showed up last year or vet thought that IBD a possibility as well as auto-immune, now that she is on a single unique protein and getting enzyme and probiotic supplements her chronic diarrhea is gone.
 
Re: 6/11 - Oliver - AMPS 136. Question about remission.

Oliver's BG has been in the low 100's all day, even though I skipped his morning shot. He even dropped below 100 for 1 reading. I find this very strange. I gave him his prednisolone at 4 PM and will shoot .5 tonight if his BG goes up. (I'm not sure I could eyeball .25, but I did order some syringes that have the 0.5 marks, so that should be easier when they arrive.
 
Okay, Oliver's PMPS was 162 so I gave him his injection. I think I gave .5U. It might have been a little less, but I am going to call it .5. It's pretty clear from his spreadsheet that his BG has been going up since I gave him his pred. 3 hours ago.
 
Which brand of syringes are you currently using? When you switch to the terumos this might make a difference in dosing. Good luck with the decrease in dosing.
 
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