4/18 Baby PMPS 65 +3 42 +5 48

Lantus Land.. this is going to be a stressful next few days for Baby & I. Please note yesterday's condo for specifics.
WCR Baby has not used the LB in about 24 hours & will not really eat right now, had her injection of ab yesterday at Vet, it supposed to start pill form today - but I may wait to give based on what I have learned & talk to the Vet in the morning.

I'm scared to give Insulin with these #s & her not eating. I am lost & can tell whatever can happen.. Baby will put me thru.. she is not one that is easy.

Yesterday

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +3 27 +15mins 38

oh wow nicole .. talk about some low numbers huh? No advice on giving medication, but I will be sending lots of eating and LB thoughts for you guys today!!

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +3 27 +15mins 38

Sorry to hear about Baby, I just posted a little while ago in yesterday's condo, did you read it? I would be scared too with those numbers! I am sure someone will come along to help!

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +3 27 +15mins 38

Hi Nicole,
This certainly is a tough time for your guys. I know you will pull through, with many lessons learned.

Did you read the responses in your condo last night?

One question I would ask:
Is the risk of the infection getting worse AND the consequences worth skipping the a/b today?

I am all for knowing about side effects and making informed decisions. Part of the decision is weighing the pro's and con's of what *could* happen if you gave it. And, what *might* happen if you dont. Which is worse? Only you can decide that for Baby.

You could call the ER (is there one affiliated with your vet?) and ask them for a switch. Unfortunately they may need to see baby again. Might not be a bad idea if things are getting worse though.

She has to poop, BUT remember - little input gives little output. So try and weigh that factor in a bit as well.

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +3 27 +15mins 38

I called the ER Vet last night & they said they would need to see her to give another ab, I agree with you Carolyn - skipping the ab is not a good option today - I will give (if the drug were that dangerous I don't think it would be on the market) I will call her Vet in the morning. I am going to get a +4 here in a few minutes.

GOOD NEWS! I picked Baby up & actually put her in the LB, both Ps are now in place

:thumbup B :thumbup A :thumbup B :thumbup Y

She seems to be fine, she licks to keep that abcess clean - with it shaved & everything - it looks good - no drainage & just clean looking, no smell nothing. She slept very well last night, all night.

I hate having to dosecrease tonight & with the ab on board, we won't know for sure what is what - but a 27 is a dosecrease! (((Thank you)))

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +3 27 +15mins 38

wow on the low numbers! I can't help with advice, but can send good vibes your way for baby, and you too.

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +3 27 +4 58

nice catch!
yes, there's no choice but to take a reduction tonight. don't worry about it. she'll do fine.
it sounds like baby is feeling better!

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +3 27 +15mins 38

The AB may have kicked in and dropped her numbers. I don't think stopping the AB is a good idea. Abscesses are very serious business. While everything can appear to be just fine, if the infection hits the bloodstream, it can be very serious. I was hospitalized a couple of days last year with an abscess that turned into cellulitis and was on massive amounts of IV antibiotic for over 2 weeks at home. I looked fine, I felt fine, etc. but the infection had not become systemic. (climbing down off of soapbox)

I know you're worried about vision side effects. What dose of Baytril is Baby taking? Apparently, the manufacturer raised the recommended dose from 5mg/kg/day to 20mg/kg/day a couple of years ago. This is when the retinal side effects were first reported. The manufacturer has since withdrawn their recommendation to use the higher dosing guidelines and gone back to the original 5mg/kg dosing. This is the info from the director of the ophthalmology service at Tufts Vet School on retinal damage and Baytril. If you don't have an easy way to convert Baby's weight into kilograms, let me know.

Have you been able to entice Baby to eat something. Inappetance is not uncommon with ABs.

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +3 27 +4 58

Thanks, Sienne. Unfortunately Baby is on 20mg - I just gave her 1st pill this morning. She weighs 11lbs.
Her Vet will be in the office in the morning & I am going with my gut & not keeping her on Baytril - I am going to ask for Amoxicillin (a different Vet was filling in yeterday - so maybe her Vet will be back, if not - I will ask whoever is on duty.)

Baby is eating.. but not much, a bite here or there of Wellness. Is refusing her Raw. Thankfully was all about the HC Treats & Gravy.. Baby is no fool!!

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +3 27 +4 58

Why unfortunate? She's getting 20 mg total dose, right, not 20mg/kg/day?

11 lbs = 5 lbs. (Eta: 11 lbs is 5 Kg, not 5 lbs. Thanks, Sienne!). The rec dosage referred to in Sienne's post of 5 mg/kg/day means Baby's dose shouldn't exceed 25 mg per day.

See http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Conten ... &C=0&A=553 and http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/en ... page1.aspx for more information on the drug.

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +3 27 +5 66

I agree with CF. Baby is well within the safety zone for Baytril. The warning sign for the retinal side effects are miadrisis -- the pupils are excessively dilated even in bright light. I'm not trying to convince you that Baytril is the right drug. It is recommended for this kind of infection and many of the drugs in the same family have similar side effect profiles. Overall, the side effects of Baytril at this dose are pretty neutral.

ETA - I think CF meant that 11 lbs = approx. 5 kg (5 kg x 5 mg Baytril = 25 mg of Baytril per day for dosing). If using the dose that caused blindness, Baby would need to be getting 5 kg x 20 mg = 100 mg of Baytril.

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +3 27 +5 66

good catch, Nicole, and good luck with the dosecrease.

Lots of cats use Baytril. It's a big-gun, I think, but you have to use the right antibiotic for the type of bacteria that is present. I would call the vet tomorrow and have the conversation, but I don't think you need to panic unless she starts showing some symptoms.

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +3 27 +5 66

Thinking of you and Baby...hope she starts feeling better real soon Nicole! :YMHUG:

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +3 27 +5 66

(((((Nicole))))) Baby is safe, slow down to think about what the others have said. Deep breaths! Talk to your vet tomorrow, in the mean time know that you are doing the best for Baby, :YMHUG:

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +3 27 +5 66

oops ohmygod_smile sienne is correct, i meant 11 lbs = 5 KG. will go edit now.

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +3 27 +5 66

Hope Baby feels better soon :YMHUG:

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +7 38

(((thanks, everyone))) came home from church to find her at 38, refusing to eat - going to try everything.. I bought a buffett of canned on the way home in hopes that one will work. I dont know how all this will play out when I am at work though nailbite_smile
Thank you for all the info on Baytril - my nerves are calmed. I will call her Vet in the morning (would like to discuss) but based on her weight/dosage she sounds to be on the right ab. I was thinking the post said only 5mg per day - which made me nervous. Dosecrease tonight.. a lot happening at once for sure!

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +7 38

Glad your nerves are calmed a little. I know another way to help them. drinking24 or chocolate!

When Tess was being really picky the other day I added just a little tuna from a FF Appetiser. Worked like a charm, she is a total tuna addict.

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +7 38

If Baby ignores the solids, just try some gravy by itself.

I'm wondering if her stomach is upset. I'd suggest Pepsid but I don't know if it would effect the antibiotic. If Baby is looking nauseated, maybe post on Health and ask.

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +7 38

I am becoming very frusturated - I have opened about 5 cans & tried to feed gravy - she is refusing & just went & hid - not acting herself at all. I am going to try gravy again.

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +7 38

sorry to hear about the food problems nicole .. but I know you will do everything possible to make sure baby is taken care of, eating and feeling well ... you are such a good momma bean! Baby is lucky to have you taking care of her ....

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +7 38

Hi Nicole,
Have you tried Beechnut Stage 1 baby food. It's just turkey (or chicken or beef) and water...no carbs at all and i never met a kitty that doesn't like it. f worst comes to worse can you syringe feed her something? The baby food would easily go in a syringe!

As for the Baytril..I have to agree with Sienne and those who are telling you that it's the best for this type of infection. My guys have both been on it several times and as with any antibiotic on the market it is recommended when the 'benefits outweigh the risks'! My vet has told me that NOT ONCE has any animal that he has given it to developed any eye issues. And it HAS worked better for the infections that I asked for substitute ab's for when I was afraid of the same thing. I ended up going back to Baytril. Seriously, if we considered every side effect of every medication, we wouldn't take, or give our pets any medications at all.

Sending healing vines to your Baby.

ETA: sorry just looked at a jar. It's meat and broth not water but still, no carbs

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +7 38

((Nicole))
Stopping by to send my hugs to you and Baby.
you are totally devoted to her and I feel your pain.
You have everyone here by your side and I like the baby food suggestion
or just licking the gravy.
Sending healing and eating vines to you.

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +8 71

(((Thanks, everyone))) Baby got herself back up - or shall I say.. we got her back up!!
I am going to get some of that Baby Food now.. so I will have it on hand.. thank you for the suggestion!!

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +8 71

Glad to see Baby is going back up. Stress city for you but lots of great help here. Abcesses are not something to mess with so happy to see you are feeling better about the Baytril.

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +8 71

Hi Nicole and Baby. I just got finished ready your condo from yesterday and today and boy oh boy, have you guys been busy. I am so sorry poor Baby has an abscess on her bum, but so very happy that you found it! Also happy to see that Baby's numbers are coming up. I'm sure you are also!

Hope the baby food helps with her eating issues. It could be that the AB's are upsetting her tummy. In October, the AB's upset his tummy & I got the forti-flora for him. Not sure if that worked or not, but he did eventually feel good enough to eat. This time around, the AB's didn't effect him to much as far as his eating habits go, but I still gave him the F-flora.

(((Nicole & Baby))) hope the rest of your day goes well.

ETA: I just revisited Maureen and Sammy's condo and was trying to think who it was that accidentally gave 5u instead of .5u and then saw your post. Boy, I remember that day very well...just like I'm sure you do. So, I just had to pop back in here and say that I'm so glad all things turned out so well!

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +8 71

Hi Nicole and Baby!!! Just wanted to reiterate to you that we have had no problems with Baytril, been on it for 9 days now and Scrabble is doing extremely well! Just here to offer support, I was scared too but like others said she would have to be on a really high dose to affect her vision! From what my vet told me it is the best ab to fight a nasty infection! Good luck! Sorry you are having so much trouble with Baby today! Hugs!!!!!

 

Re: 4/18 Baby AMPS 74 +8 71

I know it is really close to shot time for Baby. I hope you are doing okay. I'm thinking of you and Baby and hope you have had a chance to breathe. Pretty scary stuff you've had to deal with and adding low appetite + insulin is even scarier. ((((Tons of hugs and support))))

 

Re: 4/18 Baby PMPS 65 AB & Dosecrease

Thanks, everyone. Baby's shot time was 30mins late because I had something at church to be at. Like Paige said, shooting insulin & forcing a kitty to eat is overwhelming right now. I don't know how much more I can take. I am tired of fighting her to eat. We have tried:
Baby food, nutritional yeast flakes, variety of canned flavors/brands, freeze dried treats, chicken, raw, fortiflora, parmesean cheese, kitty shakes etc. So far Baby will eat Temptations & that is not a meal & it is HC but just keeping her #s in the safe range. I am scared, I have to work & it just is feeling overwhelming, its been all weekend now :cry: Just upset & I am sorry for not being positive here. Acting fine, except obsessed with the abscess. We dosecreased down to .10 & this is Day 2 of her ab.

 

Re: 4/18 Baby PMPS 65 AB & Dosecrease

{{{{Nicole}}}} I don't have any advice at all. Sounds like you've tried everything I can think of... except maybe poking the Temptations into some food to see if she'll go for 'em like that. Other than that, all I've got is hugs and sympathy.

 

Re: 4/18 Baby PMPS 65 AB & Dosecrease

Those Temptations do crumble, yes? You could easily make them into crumbs and sprinkle them on top of Baby's favorite foods.; it's worth a try, even if it gets just a little bit eaten.

 

Re: 4/18 Baby PMPS 65 AB & Dosecrease

sprinkling crushed dry food (evo cat & kitten - 8%carbs) on top of wet is how i was able to get alex to eat...

 

Re: 4/18 Baby PMPS 65 AB & Dosecrease

Does she approach food then get that, "Ummmm, I don't think so." look? Do you think she's nauseated or tummy is upset? How about when she pooped? Any signs of puddingpoo or liquipoo?

Like Deb suggested, FortiFlora may help. It can act like some of the other things we use to entice a kitty to eat plus it will help with loose stools. Jill did note that Alex got constipated on it though.

I'd try tuna water or chicken stock. Also, in a pinch, try the FF Appetizers. They won't work as a sustained meal but they are fine to get some food into Baby.

When you talk to the vet tomorrow, if Baby still is not wanting food, ask for an appetite stimulant -- mirtazepine or cyproheptadine. Likewise, ask about whether Pepsid (famotidine) is a possibility. This will help if Baby is nauseated/upset stomach. I just don't know if it can be given at the same time as an AB.

At this point, if you crush a Temptation or two on her food to get her to eat, that should be OK. She needs to eat.

 

Re: 4/18 Baby PMPS 65 AB & Dosecrease

Might be worth asking the vet about appetite stimulants? Not sure how it would all work with the other medications she is on.. but your vet would know. When Nova goes through her REALLY bad hunger strikes.. 1/4 of a pill sends her into the hard core munchies.. she starts looking at her brothers and licking her lips .

 

Re: 4/18 Baby PMPS 65 AB & Dosecrease

(((thanks, all)) Great ideas...
I got her to eat some Raw & Wellness Chicken with a few temptations stuck in it.. buried deep so she had to eat to get to it.
I do not have a bag of EVO on hand.. but that is good to know too, Jill. I am monitoring tonight & will cross tomorrow's bridge (work) when it comes :YMHUG:

Jill.. I bet you were right.. I bet she would have held .10, but the infection kept her #s afloat? Who knows.. but it is looking that way.. hopefully she looks even better after the infection has cleared up!

**You all have given me good information to speak to the vet about too.. thank you!

 

Re: 4/18 Baby PMPS 65 AB & Dosecrease

Just getting caught up on your adventures from yesterday and today. What a weekend for you. Great numbers for Baby, but I am so sorry to hear about everything else. (((Nicole)))

Sending good thoughts and healing vines your way. Eat, Baby, eat! Your mama has some really yummy stuff for you to taste; take advantage of being able to eat anything you want while you can.

 

Re: 4/18 Baby PMPS 65 AB & Dosecrease

whew, I'm glad Baby is eating. My new secret (Lucy is a chicken-holic) - if you reconstitute the freeze dried chicken in warm water, it actually makes a really nice chicken soup! Apparently something about freeze drying intensifies the flavor. I nuked some in water once to see what happened, and OMG! The cats were beside themselves. It's not a real diet, but it's food. Sometimes eating a little something will stimulate the appetite for more.

Good luck with the dosecrease, it's definitely time. :smile:

 

Re: 4/18 Baby PMPS 65 +3 42 (.1) Question

Baby has had a buffet of badness offered to her, these #s are HC treat #s.. thinking of work tomorrow... when does the shed empty?

 

Re: 4/18 Baby PMPS 65 +3 42 (.1) Question

how much has she eaten tonight? And does she eat while you're at work, or is she one of those cats who curls up and doesn't move much the rest of the day?

I wouldn't think it would take too long for the shed to empty. Jojo always says it's not possible to have a symptomatic hypo on 0.1 units (they can have low numbers, but not a real hypo). But, I really don't know how to answer your question. I think your gut will tell you whether to shoot tomorrow or skip. I trust your gut, it's a good one. :smile:

 

Re: 4/18 Baby PMPS 65 +3 42 (.1) Question

Thanks, Libby! Baby is one of those that will not eat .. she just lays & sits. I will monitor tonight & see what the AM brings.. I might need to call into work & I hate doing that... but it seems critical to keep her momentum going. She has eaten a plate of Raw.. but overall.. not eaten much at all (wont)

 

Re: 4/18 Baby PMPS 65 +3 42 (.1) Question

Nicole - I'm sorry about starting the concern about baytril, but you did ask about side effects and I thought it best to mention. I read here and on health the responses and it totally makes sense - that if too high a dose and for too long can cause the blindness.

I'm glad you asked and got the answer and now can feel at ease about using the drug for Baby.

Something to keep in mind, most drugs (I'm talking human drugs) have side effects or cautions associated with them. It doesn't mean you don't take them, rather that you understand the cautions and know how to handle it. That was all I wanted to share with bringing up the baytril.

I did mention that I've used it on Maui, mainly cause she's allergic to many other drugs and this was what was given.

I'm glad Caryl suggested the baby food - you can also heat it to up to get the smell going and that may entice her to eat too. If you mix water to it, it will easily go into a syringe if you need to use one.

You also may want to get low sodium chicken broth that you can mix into her food as more liquid and further enticement to eat. I can't recommend a brand, just read the label and get one that has the least amount of ingredients and low salt.

Hope this helps and sorry if I got you upset with the baytril concern.

 

Re: 4/18 Baby PMPS 65 +3 42 (.1) Question

(((Hillary))) Please do not be sorry at all.. no worries!! I appreciate you letting me know.. I really do. I am a paranoid person with my furbabies so probably got a little (a lot) irrational. BUT please do not think you caused it. THANK YOU for letting me know :YMHUG:
Sounds like she is the right dosage for her weight, so we are :thumbup

**Update** Baby may be high as a kite tomorrow. It is Sunday night here & the higher end pet stores that sell EVO kibble closed at 5pm. Soooooo Baby has had HC treats buried in Wellness & she has went to town on the food YAY Anyway.. I think I got carried away with the HC treats cuz I wanted her to eat nailbite_smile

We may have lil Momma high as a kite in the AM... if a/bs raise #s on top of the HC treats & dosecrease!!!

 

Re: 4/18 Baby PMPS 65 +3 42 **Update

The good thing - what goes up will come down.

Sounds like you did what was needed to get her to eat - which was the real goal.

And no you're not irrational, rather you just needed to figure it out. I learned quite a bit from the posts too. So, it's helpful to many people. Next time the question comes up, I can preface with the dose amount and timing.

 

Re: 4/18 Baby PMPS 65 +3 42 **Update

She may have higher BG's in the AM but I would still stick with the 0.1 dose ;-)

 

Re: 4/18 Baby PMPS 65 +3 42 (.1) Question

I'm glad you got her to eat. Now you know a trick to use in the future.
(((Nicole))) everything will be fine.