08/09 J.D. +9.5 321 (TOR), +11.5 367, PMPS 433

Yesterday's Condo

Last Night:
334 PMPS
276 +2.75

I should have tested more, but I slept instead :? Sorry, J.D. He got plenty of syringed food last night, plus the extras he ate on his own.
He seems to be taking the upped bupe dose fine so far. He had a snack of a few kibbles of Fancy Feast upon waking (at AMPS (I almost slept through that)) and a few more after his first syringe feeding of 10ml. He was up and about the house and drinking water. We went for an early morning walk. When we got home, he was fussy when I tried another 10ml of MaxCal, so I let him up. I offered him some LC, and some HC and that was a no go, so I let him take a break for a bit. He is in my bedroom sleeping.

It's +1.5 now, and I need to go syringe some more. Oh, he's up and about again. Better go warm up yucky MaxCal.


In reference to last night's condo:

After cooking, take the bones and meats or fish out and sieve the stock to remove small bones. Strip off all of the soft tissues from the bones as best as you can and encourage your patient to eat them. Reserve the extra for adding to meals later. Extract the bone marrow out of large tubular bones while they are still warm. To do that, bang the bone on a thick wooden chopping board. The gelatinous soft tissues around the bones and the bone marrow provide some of the best healing ingredients for the gut lining and the immune system; your patient needs to consume them with every meal.
1) What do I use to "sieve" with? Do I need to buy cheese cloth? Has anyone on here ever sieved before?
2) I think they mean "Strip off all of the soft tissues from the bones as best you can and encourage your patient to eat them (the tissues, not the bones).
3) What I am wondering is if I found a bone that was big enough to "bang" it on a wooden chopping board to extract the bone marrow, how do I get the marrow off the wooden chopping block (and the rest of my counter) and into the pan of broth? via syringe?


http://feline-nutrition.org/health/feline-inflammatory-bowel-disease-nature-and-treatment

Introductory Diet of Homemade Meat or Fish Stock

Meat and fish stocks provide building blocks for the rapidly growing cells of the gut lining and they have a soothing effect on any areas of inflammation in the gut. Bone broth is rich in minerals including calcium, phosphorous, magnesium, sodium, potassium, sulphate, fluoride, all delivered in an easily absorbable form. The minerals will improve immune function and support healthy digestion. Bone broth is also rich in collagen. Collagen is a protein containing two important amino acids, proline and glycine, and it will help heal the lining of the gut to relieve intestinal inflammation. Broths also contain glycosaminoglycans, also called GAGs, important building blocks for tissue repair.

This is why broths aid digestion and have been known for centuries as healing folk remedies for the digestive tract.¹⁷ Do not use commercially available soup stock granules or bouillon cubes, as they are highly processed and contain detrimental ingredients such as MSG.

Chicken stock is particularly gentle on the stomach and is very good to start with. To make good meat stock, you need joints, bones, a piece of meat on the bone, a whole chicken, goose or duck, whole pigeons, pheasants (nice fresh Robins? or Bunnies?) or other inexpensive meats. It is preferable to use free range or organic meats when possible. It is essential to use bones and joints, as they provide the healing minerals and collagen, more so than the muscle meats.

If you are using larger boned meats, ask the butcher to cut in half the large tubular bones, so you can get the bone marrow out of them after cooking. Put the bones, joints and meats into a large pan and fill it with water. Bring to boil, cover and simmer on a low heat for 2½ to 3 hours.

You can make fish stock the same way using a whole fish or fish fins, bones and heads.

After cooking, take the bones and meats or fish out and sieve the stock to remove small bones. Strip off all of the soft tissues from the bones as best as you can and encourage your patient to eat them. Reserve the extra for adding to meals later. Extract the bone marrow out of large tubular bones while they are still warm. To do that, bang the bone on a thick wooden chopping board. The gelatinous soft tissues around the bones and the bone marrow provide some of the best healing ingredients for the gut lining and the immune system; your patient needs to consume them with every meal.

The meat or fish stock will keep well in the fridge for at least seven days or can be frozen. Warm meat stock can be served to your cat at any time of day. Provide warm meat stock as a drink with meals and between meals.

It is very important for your patient to consume all of the fat in the stock and off of the bones, as these fats are essential for the healing process.

Re: 08/09 J.D. AMPS HI continuation of last night's discussi

Morning, guys.

I really hope that this helps J.D., and very soon. You're doing a very wonderful job with him, and even though there are plenty of times you get discouraged, and probably feel deflated, keep trying everything in your power to find something that'll work. Something HAS to work for him. I'm sending you tons, and tons of positive vines, healing vines, positive thoughts, and whatever else you need, my friend. :YMHUG: Hang in there, girl, and God bless you, J.D. and everyone else over there.

Re: 08/09 J.D. AMPS HI, +0.75 HI (TOR), +2.75 424, +4 248

J.D. had a bath about 30 minutes ago. He wasn't that dirty, but I have wanted him to have a bath since he came home with all the gel on his belly. His ruff (bib area) was a little dirty, and he tends to like to lay on his pee pads which are in front of his litter box next to my computer. I don't know if he purred during the bath, but he was purring during the towel dry and then blow drying.
On his 2nd walk this morning, I noticed him walking a few steps on the top of his toes on his right hind leg, so I picked him up and carried him a little and then he was fine. Is this neuropathy?

At +4.25, he just went investigating cat food bowls and didn't like what he smelled, so I got out another fresh can of HC Friskies Beef Prime Filets and he ate quite a bit of that. Right now he is roaming around and rubbing his chin on things..this is mine, and this is mine..

We have to leave in an hour for his acupuncture session. She has us scheduled for an hour today.
I hope the HC slows the drop.

Re: 08/09 J.D. AMPS HI, +0.75 HI (TOR), +2.75 424, +4 248

i've done the bone broth thing - a sieve is like a colander but with more of a mesh than large holes. so it catches more stuff and allows the broth to go through. you put the sieve on a large mixing bowl (or pan) and it has 2 pointy metal tips and one long handle that will let you set it on the bowl and use your hands to hold the hot pan. just pour everything from your boiling pan into the sieve. the liquid will go in the bowl and the solids will stay in the sieve.

yes, you could use cheesecloth if you want. a metal sieve is probably easier to manage. you could probably find one at Goodwill.

small bones are hard to get marrow from, but i think you give JD beef, and those bones are easy. You can buy them at a grocery store - typically they are labeled "dog bones". in my local store they keep them in a freezer case. you can roast the bones first - 450* for about 20-30 minutes to brown them, then put them in a pan with water and boil, or put in a crockpot. the marrow is easy to scoop out from those just using a spoon.

the marrow is supposed to be very good for healing the gut. that's what jello is made from, and i suspect with the pate cat food, the gelatin-looking part is bone marrow making the liquids jell.

Re: 08/09 J.D. AMPS HI, +0.75 HI (TOR), +2.75 424, +4 248

Hi Dyana, hope JD's appointment goes well. Sending healing, good appy and feel better vines to JD.

cooking questions

So, I got this recipe from the Acupuncture Vet. It is called Jing Tonic: "Marrow Soup"

I am to take a chicken and make soup. I have never made chicken soup before, so I have to go out and buy a Dutch Oven and then a chicken. The vet. receptionist said to boil the chicken in a Dutch Oven until the meat falls off the bones.

The recipe says to de-bone the chicken and take the bones and snap the larger ones in half. Put them in a pot or crock pot and barely cover the bones in water. Add 1-2 TB vineger or lemon juice, and a few cups of chopped carrots, celery, squash, and/or beets. The acids from these foods help extract the marrow/essence from the bones. This is brought to a boil, and then simmered for many hours, the longer the better. Try for 4-8 hours in a pot, or up to 12-18 hours in a crockpot. More water can be added as needed. Remove the bones, and strain the veggies out at the end, unless the animal wants them. This nutrient rich broth can be given in small frequent servings to anorexic or debilitated cats or dogs. The simple ingredients are easy to digest. Chicken and veggies from the first soup can be added in as the appetite returns.

So, my list:
Dutch Oven
Chicken
Vineger or Lemon Juice
carrots
celery
squash
strainer
sieve

Is vineger or lemon juice okay for cats? I probably have some vinegar in my pantry. Apple Cider vinegar for cleaning the coffee pot once every 5 years.
If I put squash in, do I cut it up first and leave the skin on, or do I just put the whole squash in. Won't it get all mushy if I cut it up? Can you tell, I don't cook much?

And then later, after I have the food going, I want to go take a swim in the pool.

J.D. just got his bupe and is laying next to my chair as I type. Off to go shopping.

Re: 08/09 J.D. +5 201, +6 180 more cooking questions

Thanks Julie. I think I'll pick up some of them dog bones too.

Re: 08/09 J.D. +5 201, +6 180 more cooking questions

This is the type of strainer you want. I don't know that you need a dutch oven , just a good , big heavy pot. You can even cook the chicken in a crock pot if you have one (i noticed that wasn't on your list. ;-) )

Good luck I hope it helps, J.D.'s numbers are looking good today.

Re: 08/09 J.D. +5 201, +6 180 more cooking questions

Good luck with the soup. I hope it helps J.D. Sending more prayers and hugs. :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

Re: 08/09 J.D. +5 201, +6 180 more cooking questions

i sure wouldn't go buy a pot for it. any kind of big pot will work - it just has to hold it all.

i don't know about the vinegar being safe for cats. interesting question. i'd think since you got the recipe from the vet and it specifically says for dogs and cats, it's probably ok.

you don't have to skin the squash. i'd poke some holes in the skin with a knife, then microwave it whole so that it's soft enough you can cut it. then just cut it in chunks that will fit in the pot.

if it were me, i'd give JD the meat and maybe the squash but probably not the rest. just seems questionable if he'd like them, but as long as you don't have onions or garlic i think they'd be safe to eat.

the point of the whole thing is the bone marrow, though, which you can either scoop out if the bone is a big bone, or probably it leaks out into the soup too. you know how when you make broth it will solidify in your fridge with a layer of fat on top? the bone marrow is what makes it get solid. jello.

this would be why my vegetarian children won't eat jello. :lol:

Re: 08/09 J.D. +5 201, +6 180 more cooking questions

Thanks Julie.
The pot I bought says Dutch Oven 6 quart, but when I put the chicken in and fill it is water, the water is not covering the chicken and if I add any more it will boil over. I think I am going to switch to my big ole pot that I make spaghetti sauce for an army in. It's a lot taller. Do you know if I am supposed to simmer it with or without the cover?

I bought some beef marrow bones too

Re: 08/09 J.D. +5 201, +6 180 more cooking questions

doesn't matter, but i'd probably put the lid on. it's going to evaporate at a fast rate, so if you leave the lid off, you'll want to add water along the way.

any big pot will work.

and now you have a dutch oven!

Re: 08/09 J.D. +5 201, +6 180 more cooking questions

Julie,

If I roast the beef bones and then boil them, what do I do with the marrow? Mix it in food?

I bought zuccini squash because I didn't know which kind to buy. It just says squash. Should I peel it?

I'm typing and I really should be getting J.D.'s dose ready.

Thanks Anne.
It was a little embarrassing. I was looking at the strainers and the colanders and the flat grease catchers, and I had 3 strainers in my cart of various sizes and some had prongs sticking out the other side opposite the handle, and they all pretty much said fine mesh, but some were a lot finer than others. Finally, and employee walked by, and I said "Excuse me. Do you know what a sieve (I pronounced it seeve) is? And what they look like? She pronounced it like siv, and she took me to the strainers. None of the strainers said "sieve" on it.

I just syringed 20ml of MaxCal. The chicken is on simmer waiting for the meat to fall off the bones (which reminds me of a time a long long long time ago when my ex and I accidently cooked chicken too long, and when we opened the pot there was a rack of bones with meat at the bottom of the pot, and that meat tasted oh so good).

Anyway, I'm taking a half hour of "me time", because I deserve it, and am going for a swim.

I think the idea is to add the marrow to the stock.

The chicken is on simmer waiting for the meat to fall off the bones (which reminds me of a time a long long long time ago when my ex and I accidently cooked chicken too long, and when we opened the pot there was a rack of bones with meat at the bottom of the pot, and that meat tasted oh so good).

Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: That's exactly what you want to do! Did you get a strainer? I think the ones w/ the slightly larger screen would be best, little meat solids can get through, mesh about the size of window screen. Not one w/ holes though. I think what she showed you was more of a spaghetti strainer.

After all this that little boy better like it! ;-)

No, she showed me the regular strainers. I just didn't know they were also known as sieves.

The chicken floated to the top of the post about an hour ago. I am waiting for the meat to fall the bones, so I can get the crock pot ready and go to sleep. Hurry up chicken.

Do I syringe it when the broth is ready? I figure it can cook in the crock pot over night with the veggies.
I hope the sieved broth will go through a syringe.

Night LLand. Thanks for your help and well wishes.

J.D. is ready for sleepy time, too.

sorry dyana - i had to go cook food for a family reunion tomorrow and missed your question. i don't think there's an exact answer. i know people just scoop the marrow out and eat it. it's supposed to be really good for healing a gut. i think you got good advice - wish i'd thought of that with punkin.

i suspect you can either just mix things together, or add it to his food, or syringe the broth. probably all of that will work - might depend on what he's willing to eat. you might be able to use a blender to mix some of it together and if he likes it, just pour it on his food. or mix it in with what you're syringing.

My cats have just lapped the broth up out of a glass bowl like a water dish. I've also added it to the food and gently warmed the food/broth for a few seconds in the microwave.

wow Dyana...looks like J.D. has you pretty busy doing some cooking for him. Sorry I haven't been stopping in FDMB lately....lots of stuff going on and my brain just does not want to work once I am home and I can not retain the information I am reading.

I hope the soup/marrow helps J.D. Also hope that you got a chance to get into the pool!

Cooking Beef Marrow Bones

julie & punkin (ga) said:

small bones are hard to get marrow from, but i think you give JD beef, and those bones are easy. You can buy them at a grocery store - typically they are labeled "dog bones". in my local store they keep them in a freezer case. you can roast the bones first - 450* for about 20-30 minutes to brown them, then put them in a pan with water and boil, or put in a crockpot. the marrow is easy to scoop out from those just using a spoon.

the marrow is supposed to be very good for healing the gut. that's what jello is made from, and i suspect with the pate cat food, the gelatin-looking part is bone marrow making the liquids jell.

Click to expand...

This is probably the beginning of my questions.. :? Umm, heat the oven to 450, and put the bones on a pan, and just put them in the oven for 30 minutes? Do I add water, or anything? I have a caserole pan that I can put them in.