9/7 Michael AMPS 342 +6 366 PMPS 330 +2 363
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Darin & Charlie
Member Since 2014
Re: 9/7 Michael AMPS 342
Morning Paula and Michael, so today will be the 4th cycle of the bounce. It is a good possibility that he will be starting to clear his bounce. You will know this is happening when you start to see some numbers dropping in to the yellows, even better blues. But if you Dont see much movement in the am cycle, dont get discouraged, the bounce will clear.
Morning Paula and Michael, so today will be the 4th cycle of the bounce. It is a good possibility that he will be starting to clear his bounce. You will know this is happening when you start to see some numbers dropping in to the yellows, even better blues. But if you Dont see much movement in the am cycle, dont get discouraged, the bounce will clear.
Marilyn and Sheldon
Member Since 2014
Re: 9/7 Michael AMPS 342
Yes, Paula. Bounces stink! But they're an unavoidable part of the process so often. It's hard to stay positive, I know. But this will clear. Michael is so lucky to have such a dedicated Bean. You're doing a great job!
Marilyn and Polly
Yes, Paula. Bounces stink! But they're an unavoidable part of the process so often. It's hard to stay positive, I know. But this will clear. Michael is so lucky to have such a dedicated Bean. You're doing a great job!
Marilyn and Polly
Paula
Member Since 2014
Re: 9/7 Michael AMPS 342
Thanks for the replies Marilyn & Darin.
I was just beginning to get a little discouraged.
What I don't understand, is if he stays in unhealthy #'s like this most of the time, doesn't that do more
damage :?: Why can't we keep adjusting doses all the time to keep in healthy #'s :?: This has been going on for 5 mos. I'm worried that damage may set in, if i can't get him regulated.
Darin.
Thanks for talking to our Vet about this. Sometimes I wondered if she really wanted to know more about "D"
She always seems so busy. I am glad she wants to learn. She requested that I email Michael's #'s to her.
When she reads them she suggests dosing if over 300 1.5u if over 250 1u. & don't shoot under 250. (We know that dosen't work.) All in all she really is a good vet and am thankful she is willing to work with me.
(So many vets don't want to bother with "D".)
btw, Michael decided to share his bouncy ball :!:
Paula :smile:
Thanks for the replies Marilyn & Darin.
I was just beginning to get a little discouraged.
What I don't understand, is if he stays in unhealthy #'s like this most of the time, doesn't that do more
damage :?: Why can't we keep adjusting doses all the time to keep in healthy #'s :?: This has been going on for 5 mos. I'm worried that damage may set in, if i can't get him regulated.
Darin.
Thanks for talking to our Vet about this. Sometimes I wondered if she really wanted to know more about "D"
She always seems so busy. I am glad she wants to learn. She requested that I email Michael's #'s to her.
When she reads them she suggests dosing if over 300 1.5u if over 250 1u. & don't shoot under 250. (We know that dosen't work.) All in all she really is a good vet and am thankful she is willing to work with me.
(So many vets don't want to bother with "D".)
btw, Michael decided to share his bouncy ball :!:
Paula :smile:
Marilyn and Sheldon
Member Since 2014
Re: 9/7 Michael AMPS 342
Paula, a couple of things to offer hope!
I rescued a kitty in 2005 from a nasty situation...I always said he was in the witness protection program since his people didn't really know he'd been rescued. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! (I don't think they even missed him for a month or more.)
He was emaciated. His teeth were falling out. He couldn't walk across my bathroom floor without falling over. My vet didn't know if he would live. He had been diabetic for a long time, undiagnosed and untreated. His numbers had been high, high, high for a long time and he was throwing keotones so badly his urine (and my entire house) smelled like mold.
It took some time. But we got that little stinker regulated, fat, and sassy! And healthy. This sugar dance is hard; it's frustrating; it seems at times that the out-of-key music will never end. But.....then it does. And this sugar dance becomes a miracle. Your little Michael will be your miracle...he is your miracle. And with you as his mama, he will turn this dance into a beautiful waltz in perfect time. Keep the faith.
Second. My Polly was an enigma to my vets. Goofy numbers, unexplained response to insulin. They didn't know what to do. But Dr. N told me to keep trying and not to worry about her high numbers in the early stages. He said, "yes, the high numbers will impact her physical well-being, but lots of the effects take years, to do horrible harm....and Polly is 12 (or maybe 14)." I knew what he meant. We had time to figure this out. I kept the faith with TR and I kept faith with the advice from LL. Even with her high dose condition, Polly is doing great.
Keep the faith! Michael is sooooo lucky to have you.
Marilyn and Polly
Paula, a couple of things to offer hope!
I rescued a kitty in 2005 from a nasty situation...I always said he was in the witness protection program since his people didn't really know he'd been rescued. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! (I don't think they even missed him for a month or more.)
He was emaciated. His teeth were falling out. He couldn't walk across my bathroom floor without falling over. My vet didn't know if he would live. He had been diabetic for a long time, undiagnosed and untreated. His numbers had been high, high, high for a long time and he was throwing keotones so badly his urine (and my entire house) smelled like mold.
It took some time. But we got that little stinker regulated, fat, and sassy! And healthy. This sugar dance is hard; it's frustrating; it seems at times that the out-of-key music will never end. But.....then it does. And this sugar dance becomes a miracle. Your little Michael will be your miracle...he is your miracle. And with you as his mama, he will turn this dance into a beautiful waltz in perfect time. Keep the faith.
Second. My Polly was an enigma to my vets. Goofy numbers, unexplained response to insulin. They didn't know what to do. But Dr. N told me to keep trying and not to worry about her high numbers in the early stages. He said, "yes, the high numbers will impact her physical well-being, but lots of the effects take years, to do horrible harm....and Polly is 12 (or maybe 14)." I knew what he meant. We had time to figure this out. I kept the faith with TR and I kept faith with the advice from LL. Even with her high dose condition, Polly is doing great.
Keep the faith! Michael is sooooo lucky to have you.
Marilyn and Polly
Darin & Charlie
Member Since 2014
Re: 9/7 Michael AMPS 342
I hope that when she reads the tight regulation protocol and the study that was performed to developed and and reinforce it, she will will understand your dosing with Michael.
And as far a your question on why we can't keep adjusting the doses to keep in healthy #'s We do in a sense, but Michael has just recent found his breakthrough dose. Over time, ecid, Michael will tend to stay in healthier numbers and the bounces won't be near as extreme, I am just now seeing this in charlie.
If you take a look at molly & skooters spread sheet, you will see that skooter was in higher numbers and high bounces and over time, the pattern in bgs and bounces started to be in lower ranges.
Another answer to your question is that LANTUS and LEVEMIR are depot insulin's and dosing is based on nadir( lowest point in cycle) I believe this is based on the fact that these are depot insulin's in which acts as a slow release action, so the dose you give today has a cumulative affect on future BG #'s since the depot is either holding( no change in dose), filling(increase in dose), draining(decrease in dose). The other insulin's such as pzi, catsulin and others are based on preshot.
But the short answer would be, we are following a protocol that was developed from a study that was tried, tested, and proved to work.
I hope what I have explained is on track, as I have no formal training, just my understanding from reading and more reading, trying to study Julie's and the other pro's advising, suggestions, and explanations, then look to the results. That is my lecture class at the FDMB University.
I hope that when she reads the tight regulation protocol and the study that was performed to developed and and reinforce it, she will will understand your dosing with Michael.
And as far a your question on why we can't keep adjusting the doses to keep in healthy #'s We do in a sense, but Michael has just recent found his breakthrough dose. Over time, ecid, Michael will tend to stay in healthier numbers and the bounces won't be near as extreme, I am just now seeing this in charlie.
If you take a look at molly & skooters spread sheet, you will see that skooter was in higher numbers and high bounces and over time, the pattern in bgs and bounces started to be in lower ranges.
Another answer to your question is that LANTUS and LEVEMIR are depot insulin's and dosing is based on nadir( lowest point in cycle) I believe this is based on the fact that these are depot insulin's in which acts as a slow release action, so the dose you give today has a cumulative affect on future BG #'s since the depot is either holding( no change in dose), filling(increase in dose), draining(decrease in dose). The other insulin's such as pzi, catsulin and others are based on preshot.
But the short answer would be, we are following a protocol that was developed from a study that was tried, tested, and proved to work.
I hope what I have explained is on track, as I have no formal training, just my understanding from reading and more reading, trying to study Julie's and the other pro's advising, suggestions, and explanations, then look to the results. That is my lecture class at the FDMB University.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 9/7 Michael AMPS 342
you've done a great job of explaining things, darin. just like i'm teaching you, Sienne, Marje, Dyana & Sandy all were my mentors back when i started, as well as several people who don't post regularly anymore. We're lucky to have so many people stick around and help us all learn.
The really, really, short answer, paula, is that with feline diabetes, the only cats who get regulated and off of insulin within short order (like under a month) are the ones who have gotten treated very quickly after the diabetes began, whose bodies haven't gotten unaccustomed to normal blood sugar numbers. For those whose bodies have "forgotten" what normal numbers feel like, they bounce. But, even with the bouncing, with patience, these cats can relearn what normal feels like. That's what you are trying to do now - get Michael to "remember" what normal blood sugar in his body feels like. Yes, it's not ideal for him to have the higher numbers, but there is little to be done about it except just following the process through. High numbers that are brief will not do extensive immediate damage to his body. Perhaps it would help for you to look at JD's spreadsheet. JD is the King of Bouncing. He can go from 500+ to 50 and back to 500 in 12 hours. Dyana is an expert at managing him, but even so, this is what he does. He's now 19 and has been diabetic for something more than 9 years. So . . . don't let the worry about high numbers get to you. They aren't everything.
The saying here is "it's a marathon, not a sprint." and it's very true.
For today, Michael's still bouncing. I'd get a midcycle test and if it's still over 300, get the next test at pmps.
The sign the bounce is clearing is when you get a yellow test. Then you want to test again in 2 hrs after you see a yellow test result.
everytime i look at michael's picture i wish i could pet him. His fur looks luscious!
you've done a great job of explaining things, darin. just like i'm teaching you, Sienne, Marje, Dyana & Sandy all were my mentors back when i started, as well as several people who don't post regularly anymore. We're lucky to have so many people stick around and help us all learn.
The really, really, short answer, paula, is that with feline diabetes, the only cats who get regulated and off of insulin within short order (like under a month) are the ones who have gotten treated very quickly after the diabetes began, whose bodies haven't gotten unaccustomed to normal blood sugar numbers. For those whose bodies have "forgotten" what normal numbers feel like, they bounce. But, even with the bouncing, with patience, these cats can relearn what normal feels like. That's what you are trying to do now - get Michael to "remember" what normal blood sugar in his body feels like. Yes, it's not ideal for him to have the higher numbers, but there is little to be done about it except just following the process through. High numbers that are brief will not do extensive immediate damage to his body. Perhaps it would help for you to look at JD's spreadsheet. JD is the King of Bouncing. He can go from 500+ to 50 and back to 500 in 12 hours. Dyana is an expert at managing him, but even so, this is what he does. He's now 19 and has been diabetic for something more than 9 years. So . . . don't let the worry about high numbers get to you. They aren't everything.
The saying here is "it's a marathon, not a sprint." and it's very true.
For today, Michael's still bouncing. I'd get a midcycle test and if it's still over 300, get the next test at pmps.
The sign the bounce is clearing is when you get a yellow test. Then you want to test again in 2 hrs after you see a yellow test result.
everytime i look at michael's picture i wish i could pet him. His fur looks luscious!
Darin & Charlie
Member Since 2014
Re: 9/7 Michael AMPS 342
Thanks Julie for confirming that I am learning and more so understanding what I have learned. So that one day when I Dont need to be here for charlie, I can have confidence in helping others that find there way here. As I will forever be indebted to the fdmb.
Thanks Julie for confirming that I am learning and more so understanding what I have learned. So that one day when I Dont need to be here for charlie, I can have confidence in helping others that find there way here. As I will forever be indebted to the fdmb.
Paula
Member Since 2014
Re: 9/7 Michael AMPS 342 +6 366
Thanks for all the encouraging replies.
Michael really likes the pink. His #'s are rising. Amps 342 +6 366.
How can M's body get used to normal #"s when he is staying in the pink :?: It seems to me That his body is getting use to the stinky pink #'s. Michael eats on and off during the day ( lc wet food & a few lc treats)
could this be why he likes pink :?:
Paula :?
Thanks for all the encouraging replies.
Michael really likes the pink. His #'s are rising. Amps 342 +6 366.
How can M's body get used to normal #"s when he is staying in the pink :?: It seems to me That his body is getting use to the stinky pink #'s. Michael eats on and off during the day ( lc wet food & a few lc treats)
could this be why he likes pink :?:
Paula :?
MollynSkooter
Member Since 2014
Re: 9/7 Michael AMPS 342 +6 366 PMPS 330
Skooter took awhile to like the lower numbers.....
The EXTREME short answer? Every.Cat.Is.Different. lol
You know how we talk about the colors as being "floors"?.....Well perhaps Michael is needing to get used to each floor before coming down to the next one. Although it might not look like it, he IS learning to get used to the lower numbers....otherwise you would most likely see him skyrocket up to reds or blacks all the time...
I had to be reminded recently that we are doing a marathon, not a sprint....and after the 5K I did today, those marathons can be a pain! They are long, draining, tiring...but when you train for them, which is what we are doing with the insulin in our kitties, they can also be rewarding, energizing and you eventually see an end line.
Now, Michael....let's clear that bounce for your mommabean and come on down to some yellows....it is so bright and sunshiny in the yellows!
Skooter took awhile to like the lower numbers.....
The EXTREME short answer? Every.Cat.Is.Different. lol
You know how we talk about the colors as being "floors"?.....Well perhaps Michael is needing to get used to each floor before coming down to the next one. Although it might not look like it, he IS learning to get used to the lower numbers....otherwise you would most likely see him skyrocket up to reds or blacks all the time...
I had to be reminded recently that we are doing a marathon, not a sprint....and after the 5K I did today, those marathons can be a pain! They are long, draining, tiring...but when you train for them, which is what we are doing with the insulin in our kitties, they can also be rewarding, energizing and you eventually see an end line.
Now, Michael....let's clear that bounce for your mommabean and come on down to some yellows....it is so bright and sunshiny in the yellows!
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 9/7 Michael AMPS 342 +6 366 PMPS 330
try to ignore the high numbers and focus on how low the dose is taking him. Every time he gets into green, make a habit of giving him 2 teaspoons of regular food to try to help him stay in the green numbers. we want him to stay there longer, but every time he gets there, it reminds his body that it's ok.
this does work, promise. Michael is acting like most other newly diagnosed cats. you just gotta wait right now.
try to ignore the high numbers and focus on how low the dose is taking him. Every time he gets into green, make a habit of giving him 2 teaspoons of regular food to try to help him stay in the green numbers. we want him to stay there longer, but every time he gets there, it reminds his body that it's ok.
this does work, promise. Michael is acting like most other newly diagnosed cats. you just gotta wait right now.
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey
Member Since 2011
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
yes, exactly. his regular food is a low carb canned food. when a cat gets into green, often when you give them 2 teaspoons of their regular low carb food, it can help stretch out the length of time they'll stay in green numbers. just 2 teaspoons.
if their regular meal time falls while they are green, you still give them that as well.
if their regular meal time falls while they are green, you still give them that as well.
Sandy and Black Kitty
Member Since 2009
Hi there 
I know how baffling and frustrating it can be. I went through it too.
Our journey was long - BK crossed from newly diagnosed into the land of long term diabetic along the way.
Take a look at BKs ss.
A relentless sea of pink for nearly 10 months and plenty of intermittent returning waves until about the 17 month point
He did not taste HC until we were 11 months into our dance. :?
It was 6 months before BK saw a green number - that's no typo - 6 months. It was 08/06/2008 and lasted 3 hours.
The next time he saw green was 09/23/2008, 6 weeks or so later, his lantus dose at the time was 12.5u.
I just hated that BK had the highest dose in all of LL . . . .and nothing really to show for it. . . .it really was so very very discouraging. . .
Sometime in Oct of 2008, we had him tested for Acro - and much to everyone's surprise, it came back negative.
In a last ditch effort to find answers, we had him tested for a little known condition - IAA.
Bingo. We had the answer to why BK was such a 'big gulper'
However, there were no other know kitties at FDMB who ever tested for IAA , there was not a protocol.
Even the wise ones of the day were at a loss. It was pretty much 'seat of our pants'
We persisted, persevered. . .and eventually prevailed.
After 21 months, the last cat anyone would have thought would go OTJ (and that's no exaggeration) did just that.
It was quite the celebration
Hang in there - and in here - it will get better/
Paula said:
I know how baffling and frustrating it can be. I went through it too.
Our journey was long - BK crossed from newly diagnosed into the land of long term diabetic along the way.
Take a look at BKs ss.
A relentless sea of pink for nearly 10 months and plenty of intermittent returning waves until about the 17 month point
He did not taste HC until we were 11 months into our dance. :?
It was 6 months before BK saw a green number - that's no typo - 6 months. It was 08/06/2008 and lasted 3 hours.
The next time he saw green was 09/23/2008, 6 weeks or so later, his lantus dose at the time was 12.5u.
I just hated that BK had the highest dose in all of LL . . . .and nothing really to show for it. . . .it really was so very very discouraging. . .
Sometime in Oct of 2008, we had him tested for Acro - and much to everyone's surprise, it came back negative.
In a last ditch effort to find answers, we had him tested for a little known condition - IAA.
Bingo. We had the answer to why BK was such a 'big gulper'
However, there were no other know kitties at FDMB who ever tested for IAA , there was not a protocol.
Even the wise ones of the day were at a loss. It was pretty much 'seat of our pants'
We persisted, persevered. . .and eventually prevailed.
After 21 months, the last cat anyone would have thought would go OTJ (and that's no exaggeration) did just that.
It was quite the celebration
Hang in there - and in here - it will get better/
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