Tink AMPS 598, +2=427 UGH

Last condo: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=127923

Well, the no-tip dog bowl is a success so far. No kibble binges.

However, Tink seems to have become bored with regular bouncing and has taken up bungee jumping. :shock: Check out the swing from last night's PMPS (415) to a low in the 70's, back up to almost 600 this morning.

What do you all think about an increase this weekend? I've been planning one each weekend for the last month pretty much - but then he'll throw a low in there somewhere, usually a day or two before the weekend. He would have likely gone low last night without the hc - he was in a pretty steep descent. But I don't know how useful bounce-clearing dives are when determining whether it's safe to increase or not.

Hi Jen,

No expert advice here, I'm afraid. Just sending vines for Tink's dives and bounces, from one bouncy kitty's mom to another. confused_cat

We're going to be starting a new regimen after we return from a short trip, to try to calm Clalre's bounces. We're going to keep Clare's dose on the high side, then try to regulate her dives and spikes more by timing her meals, using mostly LC hopefully.

I'll let you know how it goes. In the meantime, I'm wishing great things for you and Tink if/when you decide to do the dosecrease.

Georgette and Clare

Thanks. Part of me is tempted to just stop insulin altogether for a few days and clear his system and start over. But that's probably not the greatest idea. It's just weird how he all of a sudden went back on the juice. I mean, he'd been creeping up a little - but then all of a sudden we were in the pink! He was doing really well (blue/green) for a short while, but I dunno - we just don't seem to be able to get a handle on it.

I'm already steering the dives with food - but I can only do that when I'm home! Since sometimes his dives don't start until after +2, it's quite conceivable that I'm missing a lot of them - which explains some of the bounciness. I have a feeling he must have dropped too much yesterday morning to cause last night's high. I hope he doesn't do so again today, as his +2 was down considerably... but still sky high (it's easy to drop 200pts when you're starting at almost 600!). I did not bolster with food today since he was still so high - but I hope that was the right decision.

Hi Jen

Sometimes they decide to do this diving/bouncing. Gracie is doing it now as well. My goal is to try and pinpoint when she drops and then be sure she has some food on board to work with the insulin.

IMHO, that 598 does look like he dropped fast or went lower somewhere and it was probably during the day since you are doing a great job with the nighttime tests. It's difficult when you work to be able to catch those drops; any possibility a timed feeder would work?

I wouldn't stop the insulin. If his dose was tiny, it might be worth it but not where it is. I've done two different things just experimenting:

--dropped the dose back a bit just to get her to flatten out; this usually results in high yellows for Gracie; but once she was flat, I increased the dose back up. The disadvantage to this is potentially building insulin resistance (a bit) but it might be the safest option for you since you work.

--increasing the dose; this is what works best for Gracie as the increased insulin brings her flatter; since she's flatter, she can't dive as much which means she can't bounce as much. However, this takes a lot of time and testing and potentially feeding. It's not the best option for someone who works.

Or....hold the dose and hope it stops; catch him before he drops when you can. I find the big drops can cause the biggest bounces.

I'm already using a timed feeder - the problem is that all I have on workdays is the +2 to decide how to load the feeder. I don't want to plug a bunch of food into him if he's NOT diving. He's at ideal weight now and adds "fluff" easily. Also, if I fed him on non-dive days the way I would on a dive day, that alone would hold him high and flat.

I had started feeding him at PS and +3 in the mornings - but more often than not, his +2 is higher (as it should be) so I move the meal to +4 when he's a lot higher. If he's just a bit higher at +2, I have him eat at +3. If he's lower at +2, I feed him extra and load extra meals in the feeder. Of course some days he slides down slowly and the extra food is sufficient, other days (like last night) he likes to drop really quickly. Sometimes LC is enough to steer him - other times even a few doses of HC isn't enough. He's been known to go through an entire can before seeing any effect at all.

He's just so unpredictable that even having the feeder isn't much help if I don't know how to load it on any given day. :?

I think you should quit your job and take care of Tink full-time.

;-)

just kidding.

ya gotta work with what you have going on. You do a fantastic job of monitoring him when you can. Look at that sweet little 82 stuck in there on 11/2 after a +2 of 325. I wouldn't be surprised if you've got some other greens in there during the days that are causing those high numbers.

I don't have any great wisdom, jenn. But I wouldn't stop his insulin and start over. I think that would be a setback and it wouldn't help him. Marje's given you a couple of ideas. I think for being gone all day you're doing the best a person could do. The only thing I can think to add is that if you have any chunk of time off coming up - like a vacation - you could be more aggressive with the dose at that time.

Jen

I'm sorry I didn't remember you were using a timed feeder. That's one of the things I lose track of between members' cats. Shame on me for not seeing it on the SS...it's right there in the remarks. I was focused on the cycles and patterns.

I agree with Julie that your are doing the best you can do. One thing I will add, though, is that consistent feeding may help. I would try and load his feeder the same way every day for the same times unless he is really showing signs of coming down on you. Then I would leave HC. I also wonder if you could play the amounts on the weekend or days off to see how he responds so you have an idea for the work days. I'd try giving him a larger portion at AMPS and +1 and then smaller ones at +2 and +3. You'll have to experiment but I did find with Gracie on Lantus that if I divided her normal portion into four but gave more of it at PS and +1, it helped. But ECID.

Hi there

I'll add one more reason for not stopping insulin - you don't want to invite a repeat of last years DKA.

FWIW I too fed BK in a very consistent manner - a full portion at each shot time and 1/2 portion 'mini meals' at +4 and +8 around the clock(the timed feeder handled the mini meals). Any guide with food decision was made factoring in those meals/times and working with and around them.
I have continued that schedule ever since.

If you maintain consistency in time and amounts, it becomes something fixed rather than variable.
It becomes a sort of foundation, one that the pancreas and liver can perhaps learn to count on and hopefully one day - step into line with.

Thanks everyone for the input. I'll try to get more consistent with his meals. I've been trying to steer with food, which essentially winds up being the opposite of consistency. :roll:

Consistent meals worked well while we were on ProZinc - I think he was getting 6 mini meals per day. I like the idea of a larger meal at PS and smaller meals in between. Problem is - it seems like SO little food! For now I suppose I could feed him a bit more - until he's regulated maybe (or until he start looking like a sumo wrestler). He gets 6oz of Wellness per day (on a "normal" day). While regulated, he was gaining weight on this (he's old and exceptionally lazy). Even while non-regulated, he's not losing weight. Currently he gets this in 4 meals (again, "normally - hey... I just noticed... I dont think I ever see the word "normal" used on this site without air quotes :lol: ), so they're 1.5oz each (which is around 2 TBSP, visually guessing) - or 1/8 of a 12oz can (the big ones that are like dog food cans). So, if I were to divvy this up more, he'd basically get the same amount he currently gets at PS, but then only a sliver of food for +1, +2, +3. Again, unless I add more food to the mix, which I can - I just worry about him putting on "fluff".

I guess for now I'll just add some extra food to make this possible. He certainly won't mind. :roll:

Why not try 2 oz at PS and +1 and 1 oz each at +2 and +3? Again....it is experimentation. And once you think you've got it down, you might have to change it :lol: :lol: :lol:

I dont think I ever see the word "normal" used on this site without air quotes

Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: :lol: sad but true

Holy moly... that'd be 12oz/day, wouldn't it? That's twice what he's getting now. He'd plump up like a balloon if I fed him that much. I'll have to figure something out - but if he ate that much, he'd be back up to 14lb by next Friday! LOL

ETA: Just re-read my last post and you may have misunderstood how much he's eating, since the way I explained it is kinda hard to follow. He currently gets 4 meals/day, each consisting of 1/8 of a can - so in a day he eats half of a 12oz can. I go through 2 cans per day total, split between 4 cats. That's my dilemma... if he only needs 6oz/day (which is keeping him at his ideal 11lb, so seems like the right amount) - it's hard to split that into more than 4 meals as they get REALLY small (and he gets really annoyed with me for "starving" him). :roll:

Ahhh I get it. I thought you meant he gets 6 oz in the morning and 6 at night. ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile sorry.

I know Gracie is itsy bitsy but she gets about 1.75 oz in the morning and again at night divided into five helpings each time so about .35 oz in a minimeal so I hope Tink doesn't squeal to her about how little she gets :lol:

So if you give him 3 oz in the a.m. and 3 oz in the p.m. And PS and +1 meals were 1 oz each and +2 and +3 were each 0.5 oz, he would protest?