Ummm, this is interesting. newbie shooting 4-5U

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
no takers?
i'll be up for awhile...maybe nothing...maybe another like we had last week. long stretched out hypo.
 
He's due for another check in 10 minutes. He's up and about playing with some string at the moment. Was just reading the Lantus tight regulation protocol and it seems that the goal is to be getting his nadirs in the 50-80 range? If so then I'm less worried, at the current rate I don't think that we are going to hit that tonight. Still going to keep checking, I can much better afford one lost night than I can one lost kitty.
 
just measured 172 @ +5. I think it is safe to say that we've plateaud. Jack is in fine spirits, though I've had to make a burrito out of him for the last two tests. Tomorrow I'm going to do a full curve, because it seems that we are hitting the nadir closer to +5 than to +6.
night all.
 
I am up just briefy but I would like you to take a look at my SS and my notes my cat went from over 5 units of insulin to 2 in a matter of days he did not stay at that dose but once he went totally off dry and on raw then it was like wow his need for insulin changed overnight how is your cat doing now?
 
Lisa and Do Lou said:
I am up just briefy but I would like you to take a look at my SS and my notes my cat went from over 5 units of insulin to 2 in a matter of days he did not stay at that dose but once he went totally off dry and on raw then it was like wow his need for insulin changed overnight how is your cat doing now?
Click to expand...
Plus I would like to add that in the lantus forum at the top in the stickeys is the protocol for increasing insulin I am not a dose expert by any means but I do notice you have increased a lot by whole units for your cat instead of .25 or .5 like is recommeded in the Tilly protocolhttp://www.felinediabetes.com/F ... f=9&t=1581
 
Thanks! I've now read the protocol. The dose increases were done on the vet's recs before we knew anything other than how to give a shot. We'll be communicating a lot more directly with the vet from here on out and keeping a good look on things. Jack is doing great...I think it has ended up being more concern than was necessary, but I've learned a lot from the situation so we'll be in good shape moving forward.

It's funny, I've read the protocol a few times, but only today did it start to really sink in and make sense. There really is so much to learn and we get tossed right in the deep end. Nothing to do but learn to swim.
 
Still awake, so did a +6 test, 172. I think Yoshi might have given Jack a temptations treat shortly after the test done which measured 144. could that account for the rise that has since plateaud?
 
Hi Jose

temptations treats do tend to run a little higher in carbs.
You may want to consider low carb treats as listed in this link: Low Carb Kitty Treats

Since the diet has been switched, you may begin to see lower numbers, so do keep on top of spot checking when you can.
Are you on a 12/12 shooting schedule?


Since you are new to Lantus and already have a spreadsheet - I would like to welcome and encourage you to post here in the Lantus forum.
As you can see, it's a little quiet in the wee hours of the morning, but the rest of the day there's lots of eyes here to help you along.

When you are ready, you can begin a fresh thread (known as a condo here) with Jack's AMPS and let us know about Jack and how we can help.
 
One more thing,
if at all possible, please try to get a +11 or +11.5 before your AMPS.
This will help give others a heads up in case you may need EYES on you.

Not sure if you know this, but you will also want to hold food in the 2 hours before pre-shot time, as the food can have an influence on your pre-shot number.

Ok, that's it for now, others will be by to offer their thoughts thru the day either in this thread or in your new one for the day.

:razz:
 
it may have been more concern than necessary but it may NOT have been. i'm glad your erred on the side of caution. we've seen some hypo's lately and this looked to potentially be one. glad it all worked out so well :razz:
 
lori and tom said:
it may have been more concern than necessary but it may NOT have been. i'm glad your erred on the side of caution. we've seen some hypo's lately and this looked to potentially be one. glad it all worked out so well :razz:
Click to expand...

for sure, hard to know if you've been over-cautious until after the fact, and given how naïve Yoshi, Jack and I all are about diabetes treatment we need to be watching, learning and going slow.

Thanks also for the advice about the testing at -1 AMPS and posting. I'll pass that on to Yoshi, since he is the one that usually does the AM shot.
 
You do kind of feel like you've been thrown in the deep end, I felt that way myself. But there are so many kind and helpful people here, Shadow and I have made great strides in the couple of months we've been coming here. Our vet increased our dose at a pretty rapid pace as well and with the guidance of the folks here, Shadow is now on less than half what she was taking when we first started.

So welcome, Yoshi, Jose and Jack. We'll be looking for you around the boards. Ask plenty of questions, the group is so patient, such helpful spirits. It has made a big big difference for Shadow and I.
 
Regarding Food:
so Jack ate about 2 oz primal this morning (half of his daily feeding) and he is making a total pest of himself asking for food right now, also walking around licking the walls (he does this when he's hungry--bizarre). We've been trying to feed him at the shooting hour. Should we make him wait? Feed him part of dinner? A LC treat? Just took his BG and he's at 151.
 
Several smaller meals during the day is usually a good thing since you don't overwork the pancreas with just two larger meals. So yes, I would have fed Jack when you posted at 4 -ish. That was approximately +7 hours after his morning shot, correct?

What we try to avoid is feeding withing the 2 or 3 hours right before the next shot so when you test, it is not temporarily higher due to food in his tummy. But you can feed him earlier than that if he'd hungry. Many of us feed 4 or 5 small meals rather than just 2 meals at shot times.

I hope that made sense?
 
welcome to Lantus Land, Yoshi & Jose & Jack!

I see that Jack surfed nicely in blue all day. That's beautiful! I also see that you reduced his dose tonight. I know you're still finding your way now that you are home testing. Lantus works best when you pick a dose and shoot the same dose every cycle, holding each dose for at least a few days before changing. That's hard to do when you have a food change and more testing going on and lots of changes all at once. I recommend picking a dose and holding it for at least 3 days. Post daily if you can, and we'll help get this sorted out. Honestly I don't know that I would go all the way down to 2 units, given that Jack's numbers on 4u so far look so good. It's up to you, though, 2u would allow you to start safely and work up to the dose. I'm aggressive, and I always tend to have remission in my mind as a goal, especially for newer diabetics. When I see a dose that seems to be working, I'm reluctant to change it. You tested a ton yesterday and today, is that something you'll be able to do often? If you work all day, then it's better to be a little more conservative.

The caveat if you decide to hold the higher dose is that Jack *might* start to run down the dosing ladder pretty fast. That's a good thing, you just have to be prepared for it. Lots of test strips, high carb wet food, etc.
 
Welcome to Lantus Land.

It looks like you had the crash course introduction to Lantus. The front end of the learning curve is rather overwhelming. Please let us know how we can help. Others have noted the stickies -- there is a huge amount to absorb in those notes. It will begin to fall into place.
 
CD and BigMac said:
Several smaller meals during the day is usually a good thing since you don't overwork the pancreas with just two larger meals. So yes, I would have fed Jack when you posted at 4 -ish. That was approximately +7 hours after his morning shot, correct?

What we try to avoid is feeding withing the 2 or 3 hours right before the next shot so when you test, it is not temporarily higher due to food in his tummy. But you can feed him earlier than that if he'd hungry. Many of us feed 4 or 5 small meals rather than just 2 meals at shot times.

I hope that made sense?
Click to expand...

Very much so, will certainly look into giving it a try, especially if he's really asking. His housemate Sawyer is having difficulty getting enough calories so we are constantly bribing him with anything we think he'll eat and poor Jack-o gets jealous sometimes and wishes he could get a treat sometimes too. Fortunately we're finding some good LC treats to share so Jack dopiest have to feel left out.
 
Libby and Lucy said:
welcome to Lantus Land, Yoshi & Jose & Jack!

I see that Jack surfed nicely in blue all day. That's beautiful! I also see that you reduced his dose tonight. I know you're still finding your way now that you are home testing. Lantus works best when you pick a dose and shoot the same dose every cycle, holding each dose for at least a few days before changing. That's hard to do when you have a food change and more testing going on and lots of changes all at once. I recommend picking a dose and holding it for at least 3 days. Post daily if you can, and we'll help get this sorted out. Honestly I don't know that I would go all the way down to 2 units, given that Jack's numbers on 4u so far look so good. It's up to you, though, 2u would allow you to start safely and work up to the dose. I'm aggressive, and I always tend to have remission in my mind as a goal, especially for newer diabetics. When I see a dose that seems to be working, I'm reluctant to change it. You tested a ton yesterday and today, is that something you'll be able to do often? If you work all day, then it's better to be a little more conservative.

The caveat if you decide to hold the higher dose is that Jack *might* start to run down the dosing ladder pretty fast. That's a good thing, you just have to be prepared for it. Lots of test strips, high carb wet food, etc.
Click to expand...

I hhink our inclination is also to treat aggressively, we chose the lower dose last night because I was completely bushed from being up most of the night the day before with Jack when his numbers started going down and we did not want to run the risk of him crashing while we are asleep, ESP. Since we just don't know yet what his responses are. We've also changed a lot in the past couple of days: switching to raw, being super diligent about keeping him on a tight schedule, homme testing. We thought that some of his good 4u #s may have been the result of him aging dry and getting his shots more than 12 hrs apart 2-4 days out of the week.

Except for Wednesday, one or both of us is able to be home most of the day, so we'll be doing some more extensive testing -- it seemed like last night he may have hit his nadir at +4 which seemed early to me. Before we start being too bold with things up I'd like to have a better understanding of what is going on in his body.

Also ,yesterday I did put together a pretty thorough emergency kit for Jack with the hypo tool kit as a check list. I feel much better knowing that we are (at least physically) prepared.

Jose
 
You may want to start a new thread (we call them "condos") for Jack - one condo per cat per day. If you take a look at how the board is structured, we list the date, your kitty's name, and your AMPS and other test info as you collect it. It allows us to quickly scan and see if anyone is needing a hand, has a question, or needs some support. You change the visible header by editing your first post of the day. You need to add a post in order to bump your condo up the queue. (The latter point is essential to know if you need help).

Whatever you decide about dose is fine. However, Lantus likes consistency. You will most likely get rather wonky numbers if you shift around your dose. The more you change dose, the bigger impact it has on the shed and Lantus' effectiveness is dependent on having a full shed.

Also, a word about nadir -- it's not a fixed point. The nadir can change from day to day or even cycle to cycle. Some days it may be at +4 and other days at +6 or even +9. Once Jack is better regulated, you may not see a true nadir. Lantus is known for "flat" curves so you may see an almost straight line rather than a curve.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
You may want to start a new thread (we call them "condos") for Jack...

...Also, a word about nadir -- it's not a fixed point. The nadir can change from day to day or even cycle to cycle. Some days it may be at +4 and other days at +6 or even +9. Once Jack is better regulated, you may not see a true nadir. Lantus is known for "flat" curves so you may see an almost straight line rather than a curve.
Click to expand...

Will do re: starting a daily condo for Jack tomorrow. Thanks for the advice/explanation about the procedure with those.

Also, very helpful. To have the explanation re: the nadir. Is that why it's less problematic to shoot with the same dose even if the pre shot number is on the low side? I was confused about how for other insulins people didn't shoot (or shot very small) dosages if the pre-shot values were low.

Is a fair analogy and understanding of the storage shed, that when you shoot the lantus you are topping off the tank which is always pouring out a small amount into the bloodstream to be available?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top