10/16 Ginger pmps 549 +2 474, +6 505 +7 490 +8 456 +10 517

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Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458

ginger...come see us all on the friendly floors! you lovely...but wants to lose that red!

binks
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458

Yes, indeed. Good luck with the dose increase. Frankly neither of us looks very well in that awful shade of RED!! Lanky
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458

Come on down Ginger..please???
have you been testing for ketones Lori...I noticed that there was no notation on your SS.
How is Ginger doing with the canned? Is she eating any dry nowadays?
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458

I have had a hard time getting a urine sample.
I plan to put her alone in the bathroom to test for ketones again today.

She barely eats any wet food.
I add water to it and take away the water bowl and she will suck the water out and maybe eats 1 tsp of the food.
So after she's done "eating" I give her some EVO dry and give her the water bowl.
She is eating very little of that too.
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458

Hoping your new dose crease will bring your numbers down today--OK Ginger?? Hugs from us! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458

Crossing my fingers (and Chester's paws) that this new dose will make things better for Ginger!
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458 +6 480 !!!

She's going up instead of down...

Still trying to check for ketones
She is still in the bathroom with her water and litter box w/ gravel only in it.
She is not using the box...

I even syringe fed her water 3 times. Still not peeing.

She appears weaker, confused and off balance today.
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458 +6 480 !!!

Lori..I am increasingly uncomfortable with what you are saying about Ginger today....if she doesn't seem like herself and isn't eating so well, I would go to your vet today....I am thinking that at the very least she should be tested for any residual UTI and now I am concerned that you are not able to get a ketone test. She does need to have water....
what do you think? Can you bring her to your vet to day and have the vet look at her?
You know your Ginger and if doesn't seem right to you, please bring her in....what do you think?
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458 +6 480 !!!

This is sending up some red flags for me, too. I don't like that she's not peeing. Can you get her in to see the vet like Pat suggested and also ask that they check her teeth?
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458 +6 480 !!!

Sienne...she will not be having a dental.
But Lori, I still wonder if there is still some infection going on...and now I am worried about ketones...
the way you describe her behavior today does make us feel she should see your vet...
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458 +6 480 !!!

She didnt go into the litter box to pee, but she did pee on the linolium floor by the box - alot, so there were puddles and I was able to do the test.
I think she was too weak to get into the box.

She has no ketones present.

Ginger does have a urinary tract infection and has been on antibiotics all week and is still on them.
She is drinking lots of water, I just gave her extra water to try to get her to pee.

She is also on Proviable-DC, a probotic to reestablish healthy intestinal balances because she had diaharra from the antibiotics at first.

Everytime her BG is this high, she acts confused and weak.
Her eating habits have been this way for quite awhile. its not just today.

The vets office is closed.
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458 +6 480 +7 469

oh, I see. I am glad that there are no ketones present. I thought she was almost finished if not completely finished with the ABs...okay then..
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458 +6 480 +7 469

Could her high BG levels today be because she is getting too much insulin?
Should I lower her evening dose back down to what it was yesterday or even more?

The weakness is in her back legs and she is unstable, wobbly, and fell sideways once already.
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458 +6 480 +7 469 dosi

Lori -

I doubt this is due to too much insulin. Falling over and weakness could be due to other problems and this is sounding quite serious. I really want to encourage you to get to a vet. Is there an ER nearby? If the right antibiotic wasn't used, the UTI could be worse. If she hasn't peed, there could be a blockage and that can be life threatening. There could be a clot. There could be several serious things that are going on. Please get Ginger seen by a vet or at least call.
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458 +6 480 +7 469 dosi

she is peeing alot all over the floor next to the litter box so I was able to do a ketone test.
She has no ketones.

She cannot make it into the litter box. the sides are too tall for her now.

I put a smaller litter box next to her in the living room on towels.....shes bigger than the box
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458 +6 480 +7 469 dosi

Is she always wobbly, unstable and falling down Lori? You say she has always been confused and weak when her numbers are high, but we are saying that those symptoms could be from something else entirely.
Did you speak to your vet about those behaviors?

You know Ginger, Lori , and we are only going by your word of what she is doing.

If this is anything unusual for her, especially the falling down part...it could mean that something else is going on and a vet is the only one who will be able to determine what is happening. We are not vets Lori and would be remiss if we would not comment on these symptoms. I think it would be wise to call an emergency vet if you can....
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458 +6 480 +7 469 +9 4

I called the emergency vet and they wont advise over the phone.
I do not really have the money to bring her in.

My husband is at the point that we should have her put to sleep to end her suffering with all this.
She has felt awful for too long.

I am lowering her dose back down to 2.75 tonight
 
Just a suggestion:

This is just a suggestion; but if worse comes to worse, you might try using some R. I'm not an expert, but I have used it. I (or others) would need to help you. It is very potent stuff, and can be very dangerous if not used properly. If I were you, I would only use it if I was going to be home to monitor. Let's see what others have to say.
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458 +6 480 +7 469 +9 4

Oh, crap, I see that the dose crease hasn't done much for Ginger today and I'm very sorry to see that. Also sorry to see that she isn't doing well. Not sure if the dose needs to go higher or lower, and can't advise on the R since I never used it. But like Dyana said, it is very dangerous if not used right.
I wish I could tell you what to do, Lori, but unfortunately, I can't. I can just send positive, healing vines to Ginger and a cyber hug to you (((Lori)))
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458 +6 480 +7 469 +9 4

Thanks Deb.
R sounds too scrary for me anyway.

Plus the hubby and I are going out tonight.
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458 +6 480 +7 469 +9 4

Lori --

I'm not great at beating around the bush so I'm going to put my opinion out here. There is nothing on Ginger's SS that indicates that she is getting too high of a dose. IMHO, you should not be reducing her dose. One possibility is that you are seeing new dose wonkiness (NDW - despite increasing the dose, numbers go up).

Another factor that may be complicating the picture is medical. I tend to think you have a UTI that is out of control. If I'm not remembering, please correct me but I don't recall your vet getting a sterile urine sample (cytocentesis -- collecting urine via a needle into the bladder) and then running a culture and sensitivity. This is the only way to know if Ginger was getting the correct antibiotic. Peeing outside of the box is usually an indication of a UTI. Not peeing can be a blockage. As I said earlier, the symptoms you are describing are not trivial -- they could be serious. If you risk decreasing insulin with an infection on board, you dramatically risk ketones developing.

Ginger is going to feel lousy until you get her out of high numbers. The only way to do that is to treat the medical problem and/or more insulin.
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458 +6 480 +7 469 +9 4

FWIW, I agree with Sienne. If the antibiotics are working, her numbers should have been coming down by now IMO. I, also, would not decrease the insulin. And keep trying to get as much water into her as possible.
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458 +6 480 +7 469 +9 4

I also am worried that her numbers, especially with an infection going on. You do not want to risk DKA. I went through that with J.D. It was heartbreaking at the time and overtook my life for awhile.
If you were giving too much insulin, I would think you would see some low numbers like greens, and then a long string of higher numbers. I don't see the low numbers.
Maybe her ideal dose is 3.75, or 4.00 or 4.25 or whatever. I just don't like seeing the lingering reds and I also do not think you should reduce the dose tonight.


I hope you have a nice time out to dinner with your DH.
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458 +6 480 +7 469 +9 4

lori
do not reduce the dose. you're increasing the chances of ketones. you're experiencing some insulin resistance right now, coupled with infection. suspecting that the antibiotics are not working so she probably needs to switch to something else.
the way to deal with insulin resistance is to punch through it. hopefully the dose tonight will start having an effect on the numbers.
i think i mentioned this before. you might want to pick up some R from a pharmacy. it's cheap and doesn't need a prescription. it's a good short term way to break thru high numbers so the lantus can start working. it's not recommended for low dose kitties but it sure seems like a good idea in ginger's case.

re the litterbox situation: can you cut the side down on one of her boxes, so she can climb in easily? or get a short cardboard box from somewhere and cut the side down further. i sometimes use the short boxes pet supply stores use for dog food cases -- they're large enuf for a temporary litter box. if you put plastic below it, it won't leak onto the flooring.
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger pmps 549

I see in your SS that you shot 2.75u on that PMPS=549 and you are probably out with your DH by now....
it would be good for you to go back to to the dose you gave this morning when AMPS rolls around again...I do agree with the others who have posted here. I hope you will reconsider the dose.
Thinking abut your post, I am thinking that she could have an ear infection too, causing her to wobble and fall down. ANY infection would cause those high numbers. The ABS should be bringing the numbers down a little, but with Ginger, they are not improving. If a C & S was not on the urine sample, they do not know the strain of bacteria they are fighting and certain ABS are meant for certain strains of bacteria. As Sienne said, there should be a Culture & Sensitivity test done to know what you are dealing with. Blood work can also show signs of infection too...

There is a wealth of information here...with people who have experienced many conditions. We are really concerned for Ginger's sake. and we are hoping that she will be well again....

Is she always wobbly, unstable and falling down Lori? You say she has always been confused and weak when her numbers are high, but we are saying that those symptoms could be from something else entirely.
Did you speak to your vet about those behaviors?
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger pmps 549

lori, can you get your cat to the vet? any vet near you? because if you're not comfortable giving R maybe your vet will do it. something needs to be done to get these numbers down. i know this is the weekend but with your description of her physical symptoms and the numbers climbing vet intervention seems essential right now.
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger amps 454, +2 441, +4 458 +6 480 +7 469 +9 4

Sienne and Gabby said:
Lori --

I'm not great at beating around the bush so I'm going to put my opinion out here. There is nothing on Ginger's SS that indicates that she is getting too high of a dose. IMHO, you should not be reducing her dose. One possibility is that you are seeing new dose wonkiness (NDW - despite increasing the dose, numbers go up).

Another factor that may be complicating the picture is medical. I tend to think you have a UTI that is out of control. If I'm not remembering, please correct me but I don't recall your vet getting a sterile urine sample (cytocentesis -- collecting urine via a needle into the bladder) and then running a culture and sensitivity. This is the only way to know if Ginger was getting the correct antibiotic. Peeing outside of the box is usually an indication of a UTI. Not peeing can be a blockage. As I said earlier, the symptoms you are describing are not trivial -- they could be serious. If you risk decreasing insulin with an infection on board, you dramatically risk ketones developing.

Ginger is going to feel lousy until you get her out of high numbers. The only way to do that is to treat the medical problem and/or more insulin.
Click to expand...
lori, i agree. there is nothing on ginger's spreadsheet indicating her dose is too high. if i'm not confusing you with someone else... you were shooting 3u of N TID and that only took her down to around 150. that's 9u versus 6u per day... and lantus usually has a lower potency in most cats.

imho, ginger needs to be seen by a vet for the very reasons sienne already mentioned.
not enough insulin + inappetance + infection = the recipe for diabetic ketoacidosis.
i'm very worried about her...
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger pmps 549

no advice...you've got the experts with you...just want to wish you luck and let you know we're thinking about you...

celi & binks
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger pmps 549, +2 474, +6 505

She seems to be having NEUROPATHY symptoms, at least with one leg.
She cannot even get into a regular litter box.
She is just laying there by the water bowl and can hardly stand up to drink the water.
I syringe fed her water and some real watery food, because she barely ate tonight.
I gave her the last of the amoxicilin tonight. She was on it for about 10 days.

Her BG is up to 505 at +6.
Since I doubt she will make it through the night, I gave her more Lantus to see if it brings her reading down.
If I go to sleep, I will set my alarm to wake me every 2 hours to check her BG.

I cannot contact my vet until monday.
If she makes it though the night, I might buy Humulin R tomorrow unless someone says to try the Humulin N I have here.
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger pmps 549, +2 474, +6 505

how much insulin did you give and at what +hour did you give it?

can you take her to an ER?
if you cannot take her to an ER, what about calling your vet for advice? many vets have answering services.

if you cannot talk to your vet or take her to an ER, i would syringe feed her every couple hours all night long.
you'll want to get food and water into her.


Jill,
No ketones present today.
Click to expand...
continue testing for ketones whenever you can. this condition can change quickly and escalate rapidly.
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger pmps 549, +2 474, +6 505

1 unit at +6

My husband will not let me take her to the ER unless she is in pain.
He feels we should give up and put her to sleep.

I cannot contact my vet tonight and when I do call during the daytime, she has a recording to leave a message and calls me hours later.
She works alone in the office, no other employees.
I may try calling another vet tomorrow... if she makes it thru the night.

I will do the syringe feeding throughout the night and test her bg every 2 hours.
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger pmps 549, +2 474, +6 505

i'm so sorry your husband won't let you take her to an ER. she may be in pain. we don't know what's wrong with her. :sad:
i hope you can get her in to see a vet... any vet... tomorrow. she must be in pretty bad shape if you have doubts as to whether she'll make it through the night. this could be very serious.
 
Re: 10/16 Ginger pmps 549, +2 474, +6 505

Cats do not show pain in a way that you or your husband would expect. They compartmentalize pain because it is a survival instinct. For a cat to be in the kind of pain you're talking about, you wouldn't be able to get near Ginger.

I'm going to be blunt. Your inaction in the face of what may be an underlying medical issue may be jeopardizing Ginger's life. This may be a problem that is easily dealt with but doing nothing is potentially causing harm. I honestly hope your husband never has to go through pancreatitis. It is hugely painful. A cat will simply sit. A human would be whimpering or screaming in pain. Please, get Ginger to a vet. If you are concerned that she may not survive the night, you need to be at an ER. Listen to your gut.
 
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