10/21/2010 Spitzer insulin holiday lasted 46 hr; +49=197
- Thread starter BJM
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Re: 10/21/2010 Spitzer gets another insulin holiday
There is a very good chance that diet is controlling the numbers and/or Spitzer's pancreas is healing. Regardless, I would not ever change his diet.
There is a very good chance that diet is controlling the numbers and/or Spitzer's pancreas is healing. Regardless, I would not ever change his diet.
Pat+Raja+Shadow (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 10/21/2010 Spitzer gets another insulin holiday
Happy Holiday Spitzer! Nice number to start you day!
How is Spitzer doing? Is he eating and feeling great?
Ps in place?
Hope you have a good day! Go Spitzer!! :mrgreen:
Happy Holiday Spitzer! Nice number to start you day!
How is Spitzer doing? Is he eating and feeling great?
Ps in place?
Hope you have a good day! Go Spitzer!! :mrgreen:
Laurie and Mr Tinkles
Member Since 2010
Re: 10/21/2010 Spitzer gets another insulin holiday
I agree with Sienne. However, you will need to keep testing because he may not quite be ready for complete OTJ, his pancreas may still need some support. Looking very good though! No dry food, at all...ever!!
I agree with Sienne. However, you will need to keep testing because he may not quite be ready for complete OTJ, his pancreas may still need some support. Looking very good though! No dry food, at all...ever!!
BJM
Member Since 2010
Re: 10/21/2010 Spitzer gets another insulin holiday
There's a saying in toxicology, which is roughly this:
"The dose makes the poison."
If the carb content of his overall diet stays under 10%
If the amount of dry food is nominal, in the form of a small treat of 5 pellets after getting tested
If his BG values stay in a controlled range
Then I'm really not having a problem with the use of TINY amount of dry food in that manner.
ECID, OK?
Laurie and Mr Tinkles said:
There's a saying in toxicology, which is roughly this:
"The dose makes the poison."
If the carb content of his overall diet stays under 10%
If the amount of dry food is nominal, in the form of a small treat of 5 pellets after getting tested
If his BG values stay in a controlled range
Then I'm really not having a problem with the use of TINY amount of dry food in that manner.
ECID, OK?
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Laurie and Mr Tinkles
Member Since 2010
Re: 10/21/2010 Spitzer gets another insulin holiday
BJ, are you willing to take the chance of having him have to go back on insulin? (Assuming he is in remission, too early to say for sure) If so, then go right ahead and feed the few pellets of dry food. There have been many, many cases of cats going OTJ and end up back on insulin because of just that type of thinking.
He's your cat, your risk to take. Is it worth it?
BJ, are you willing to take the chance of having him have to go back on insulin? (Assuming he is in remission, too early to say for sure) If so, then go right ahead and feed the few pellets of dry food. There have been many, many cases of cats going OTJ and end up back on insulin because of just that type of thinking.
He's your cat, your risk to take. Is it worth it?
Re: 10/21/2010 Spitzer gets another insulin holiday
If you are committed to feeding your diabetic cat cookies and ice cream, that's your choice. I'd suggest you take a look at Lisa Pierson, DVM's website on feline nutrition.
If you are committed to feeding your diabetic cat cookies and ice cream, that's your choice. I'd suggest you take a look at Lisa Pierson, DVM's website on feline nutrition.
BJM
Member Since 2010
Re: 10/21/2010 Spitzer gets another insulin holiday
He is being fed canned low carb food.
He gets treated with a whopping total of 10 pellets of dry food in 1 day, 5 at a time when I test him.
Bottom line for me: I have to find what works for my cat.
Sienne and Gabby said:
He is being fed canned low carb food.
He gets treated with a whopping total of 10 pellets of dry food in 1 day, 5 at a time when I test him.
Bottom line for me: I have to find what works for my cat.
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Re: 10/21/2010 Spitzer gets another insulin holiday
Gabby snagged 2 Temptations treats from my civvie. Her BG jumped almost 100 points in 45 min and didn't come down until midway into the next cycle and Gabby isn't all that carb sensitive. That's my experience with my cat. Like I suggested, take a look at Dr. Lisa's site. Around the time I started here, I found the information on her site regarding diet and nutrition to be extremely valuable. What you do for Spitzer is entirely up to you. I'm simply offering information.
Gabby snagged 2 Temptations treats from my civvie. Her BG jumped almost 100 points in 45 min and didn't come down until midway into the next cycle and Gabby isn't all that carb sensitive. That's my experience with my cat. Like I suggested, take a look at Dr. Lisa's site. Around the time I started here, I found the information on her site regarding diet and nutrition to be extremely valuable. What you do for Spitzer is entirely up to you. I'm simply offering information.
Miriam and Putty (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 10/21/2010 Spitzer gets another insulin holiday
All I can say is a lot of us here would kill to be in the position you are in with Spitzer....to have a DIET -CONTROLLED cat in such a short time. It does not mean Spitzer is no longer diabetic it just means his diet will control his insulin needs.
I know you say only 10 pellets of dry food at a time but over the course of time that will add up and if Spitzer needs insulin again down the road the second time around is not easy.
Is there a reason that Spitzer needs dry food? If you need food to test him you could try Halo-Liv-a-Little chicken treats. They are low carb and most cats love them.
Yes ECID but a diabetic cat should not eat dry food no matter what the carb count is.....I'm just sayin.
BJM said:
All I can say is a lot of us here would kill to be in the position you are in with Spitzer....to have a DIET -CONTROLLED cat in such a short time. It does not mean Spitzer is no longer diabetic it just means his diet will control his insulin needs.
I know you say only 10 pellets of dry food at a time but over the course of time that will add up and if Spitzer needs insulin again down the road the second time around is not easy.
Is there a reason that Spitzer needs dry food? If you need food to test him you could try Halo-Liv-a-Little chicken treats. They are low carb and most cats love them.
Yes ECID but a diabetic cat should not eat dry food no matter what the carb count is.....I'm just sayin.
Pat+Raja+Shadow (GA)
Member Since 2009
Re: 10/21/2010 Spitzer gets another insulin holiday
Oh BJ....my Raja is a carbo freak! :lol: If I gave her 5 pellets at a time, she would probably hound me all day long, knowing that they are in the house and that I could give them to her. I had given them dry food for 13 years and I believe that is why they are in this situation today....being diabetic due to the dry food...
I look at dry food as a poison to her system.... Like a person who craves the very thing that they are allergic to...
If given a choice, I think she would stuff herself with the dry but I know it is bad for her....and not just for the fact that it raises the BGs in her, but because I do not believe that it a quality choice for her...or her brother. I use the freeze-dried chicken treats and they go wild over them. One ingredient=chicken. they like something that is 100% good for them as a treat and so I guess it's a win-win at my house. They good a good treat and I know that I am not giving them something nasty.
That's just my opinion...and I know that most everyone here also has a very strong opinion about the dry....as you can see.
The need for treats is there...for us as well as our kitties. There are better choices but one has to be aware of them....
I was so pleased to find the chicken...I use the Pure Bites... :razz:
Oh BJ....my Raja is a carbo freak! :lol: If I gave her 5 pellets at a time, she would probably hound me all day long, knowing that they are in the house and that I could give them to her. I had given them dry food for 13 years and I believe that is why they are in this situation today....being diabetic due to the dry food...
I look at dry food as a poison to her system.... Like a person who craves the very thing that they are allergic to...
If given a choice, I think she would stuff herself with the dry but I know it is bad for her....and not just for the fact that it raises the BGs in her, but because I do not believe that it a quality choice for her...or her brother. I use the freeze-dried chicken treats and they go wild over them. One ingredient=chicken. they like something that is 100% good for them as a treat and so I guess it's a win-win at my house. They good a good treat and I know that I am not giving them something nasty.
That's just my opinion...and I know that most everyone here also has a very strong opinion about the dry....as you can see.
The need for treats is there...for us as well as our kitties. There are better choices but one has to be aware of them....
I was so pleased to find the chicken...I use the Pure Bites... :razz:
Anne&Muffin (GA)
Member Since 2010
Re: 10/21/2010 Spitzer gets another insulin holiday
I feel I need to weigh in here, too. Muffin was a dry food addict for her entire life. Never would taste canned food. I did get her down to a dose of 1 drop of insulin and even began an OTJ trial with her still on dry food. After 4 days, we had to abort the trial. The dry food was just too much for her little pancreas to handle. So we went back to the 1 drop dose, which did keep her in normal numbers....until she got sick. Now there's no way to be sure, but I honestly feel that had she gotten off the dry food earlier, she wouldn't have had the bout of mild pancreatitis that, coupled with the UTI, sent us up the dosing scale again. It was during this time that she FINALLY agreed to eat canned food (1 brand, 1 flavor so far) and with the dry food gone from her diet, she has done remarkably well and we are preparing for another trial in the near future. ECID, for sure, but better safe than sorry, no? Unfortunately, Muffin doesn't like the freeze dried chicken, so if she needs a treat, she gets turkey lunch meat or rotisserie chicken, both of which she does love and I don't have to worry. Now my other cats still get a bit of dry food (low carb dry) from time to time, since it's in the house from trying to get Muffin to eat it (she never would) but they are not diabetic to begin with, and when this food is gone, I won't buy more.
Whatever you choose to do, I wish you good luck!
I feel I need to weigh in here, too. Muffin was a dry food addict for her entire life. Never would taste canned food. I did get her down to a dose of 1 drop of insulin and even began an OTJ trial with her still on dry food. After 4 days, we had to abort the trial. The dry food was just too much for her little pancreas to handle. So we went back to the 1 drop dose, which did keep her in normal numbers....until she got sick. Now there's no way to be sure, but I honestly feel that had she gotten off the dry food earlier, she wouldn't have had the bout of mild pancreatitis that, coupled with the UTI, sent us up the dosing scale again. It was during this time that she FINALLY agreed to eat canned food (1 brand, 1 flavor so far) and with the dry food gone from her diet, she has done remarkably well and we are preparing for another trial in the near future. ECID, for sure, but better safe than sorry, no? Unfortunately, Muffin doesn't like the freeze dried chicken, so if she needs a treat, she gets turkey lunch meat or rotisserie chicken, both of which she does love and I don't have to worry. Now my other cats still get a bit of dry food (low carb dry) from time to time, since it's in the house from trying to get Muffin to eat it (she never would) but they are not diabetic to begin with, and when this food is gone, I won't buy more.
Whatever you choose to do, I wish you good luck!
Re: 10/21/2010 Spitzer gets another insulin holiday
BJ...please do not think we are trying to gang up on you or that we know what's best for your cat. But please consider all long-term effects from dry food...even small amounts of it and even if you are using the grain-free dry food. Besides FD, there is chronic kidney disease; overall, the cat's weakest organs are kidneys as cats typically tend to not be big water drinkers. Feeding solely canned food (and we always even add extra water) helps keep those kidneys functioning well over the long term. Feeding canned food with the additional water also helps the bladder and keeps cats from developing other
urinary tract problems. Your kitty is young and you don't want him to develop urinary tract issues....they are very difficult to resolve esp in males. So, I
think it's a bigger picture than just FD (altho to me, that ONE issue is HUGE). Just some "fud" for thought. And remember there are many people in this group who have had to take dry food away from their FD cats so they know how difficult it is. We, personally, used to feed dry food as a "treat" or "snack" before we got Gracie and we decided to wean all of our cats off of it for the reasons I cited above. He is your cat....it's your choice...but we all care about each other and our sugarbabies and that's why you're getting all these posts.
BJ...please do not think we are trying to gang up on you or that we know what's best for your cat. But please consider all long-term effects from dry food...even small amounts of it and even if you are using the grain-free dry food. Besides FD, there is chronic kidney disease; overall, the cat's weakest organs are kidneys as cats typically tend to not be big water drinkers. Feeding solely canned food (and we always even add extra water) helps keep those kidneys functioning well over the long term. Feeding canned food with the additional water also helps the bladder and keeps cats from developing other
urinary tract problems. Your kitty is young and you don't want him to develop urinary tract issues....they are very difficult to resolve esp in males. So, I
think it's a bigger picture than just FD (altho to me, that ONE issue is HUGE). Just some "fud" for thought. And remember there are many people in this group who have had to take dry food away from their FD cats so they know how difficult it is. We, personally, used to feed dry food as a "treat" or "snack" before we got Gracie and we decided to wean all of our cats off of it for the reasons I cited above. He is your cat....it's your choice...but we all care about each other and our sugarbabies and that's why you're getting all these posts.
Libby and Lucy
Member Since 2009
Re: 10/21/2010 Spitzer gets another insulin holiday; +46=128
nice numbers. :smile:
Most cats need 3-4 hours after food to bring their numbers down, so if he not lower in 2 hours then you might want to check again an hour after that. Lucy needed closer to 4 hours to bring her numbers down when she was newly OTJ.
nice numbers. :smile:
Most cats need 3-4 hours after food to bring their numbers down, so if he not lower in 2 hours then you might want to check again an hour after that. Lucy needed closer to 4 hours to bring her numbers down when she was newly OTJ.
BJM
Member Since 2010
Re: 10/21/2010 Spitzer gets another insulin holiday; +48=177
The plates of food were empty when I got home, so Spitzer had more of a meal 2 hours ago, as opposed to a snack.
+48 = 177
I've got 2 test strips left before I have to run to WalMart. What I don't want happening is him going so low I have to stay up to 0'dark hundred repeatedly testing.
So ... shoot or no shoot?
And if shoot, .5 U?
The plates of food were empty when I got home, so Spitzer had more of a meal 2 hours ago, as opposed to a snack.
+48 = 177
I've got 2 test strips left before I have to run to WalMart. What I don't want happening is him going so low I have to stay up to 0'dark hundred repeatedly testing.
So ... shoot or no shoot?
And if shoot, .5 U?
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Libby and Lucy
Member Since 2009
Re: 10/21/2010 Spitzer gets another insulin holiday; +48=177
are you going to WalMart tonight? And about how much food do you think he has eaten in the last 2 hours?
are you going to WalMart tonight? And about how much food do you think he has eaten in the last 2 hours?
BJM
Member Since 2010
Re: 10/21/2010 Spitzer gets another insulin holiday; +48=177
He doesn't typically eat a big meal, but he definitely ate more at one time than he usually does - even when he was on the high insulin, he'd snack, do something else, snack, back and forth. He missed a snack or two, so was more hungry than usual ... although I suppose I really can't be sure what is usual, given that for the past 5 months he was untreated for 4 of them.
If I give him insulin, I'm going to want to monitor, so I'll have to make that trip. There is one a couple miles from me, on mostly lighted roads (d*mn cataracts).
Libby and Lucy said:
He doesn't typically eat a big meal, but he definitely ate more at one time than he usually does - even when he was on the high insulin, he'd snack, do something else, snack, back and forth. He missed a snack or two, so was more hungry than usual ... although I suppose I really can't be sure what is usual, given that for the past 5 months he was untreated for 4 of them.
If I give him insulin, I'm going to want to monitor, so I'll have to make that trip. There is one a couple miles from me, on mostly lighted roads (d*mn cataracts).
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Libby and Lucy
Member Since 2009
Re: 10/21/2010 Spitzer gets another insulin holiday; +48=177
that's why I was asking if you were going to WalMart tonight. If you're going shopping tonight, then this looks shootable. I would reduce his dose by quite a bit, then test a lot in the next few cycles to see what is going on. It's up to you how much to shoot but I would make it a small dose.
that's why I was asking if you were going to WalMart tonight. If you're going shopping tonight, then this looks shootable. I would reduce his dose by quite a bit, then test a lot in the next few cycles to see what is going on. It's up to you how much to shoot but I would make it a small dose.
BJM
Member Since 2010
Went to WalMart & picked up testing supplies.
+49 = 197
PMPS = 207 .5 unit
shed should be cleared out ... essentially starting over in the process of titrating the insulin dose.
Also picked up some different cat foods to provide some variety. The FF chicken florentine, mixed into the Friskies poultry platter seems to be a hit.
+49 = 197
PMPS = 207 .5 unit
shed should be cleared out ... essentially starting over in the process of titrating the insulin dose.
Also picked up some different cat foods to provide some variety. The FF chicken florentine, mixed into the Friskies poultry platter seems to be a hit.
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Sorry you had to start over...sure hope his number comes back down for you.
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