11/17 Star Cat AMPS 377, new to Lantus, day 3

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treehousemom

treehousemom

Member Since 2010
Hello, I am somewhat new to the FDMB group. I posted a few months ago about being on our last bottle of Vetsulin and asked advice about what to switch to. Everyone was so helpful here, I really appreciate that.

We have made the switch to Lantus, and I started Star's spreadsheet (attempted to put it in my signature).

Please help by offering your feedback.

She is on 1U twice daily, her numbers so far have been on the high side, but she is taking it in stride. What do you think for day three? (If you can't see my spreadsheet, I will try again!) They say patience with Lantus, right?

I have not been able to transition her off dry food, so we are still on dry. She was on Vetsulin for 2.5 years and the last 6 months has done very well.

Thank you!
 
:lol: Oh yes...Patience! Here is the link to get your SS attached to your signature. I was not able to view it as it is there.... I will be back... Try to go through the instructions slowly and hopefully you will get it in your signature...
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207
 
Welcome to LL! You will get great advice and support here. I couldn't open your SS. When you compose your signature, just above the box where you type you message there is a row of buttons. click the URL button, your cursor will be between two sets of brackets, paste your SS address there.

Usually for Lantus we allow a week for the shed to build and the cat to get used to it. Others will be along to advise more. Do everything you can to get StarCat off the dry food. You will be amazed at the difference it makes.

Read and reread the stickies at the top of the Lantus page. There is a lot to take in.
 
Hi Treehousmom and Star Cat! Welcome to LL! :mrgreen:

Please get started by reading the starred stickies at the top of the page. Star with "new to the Group" viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18139 You can post any questions you have right here in this condo (thread)

We start a new condo each day for our kitty... the header reads: Date, Kitty's Name, AMPS:_________
You did great this morning with that! :razz: We also link our previous day's condo to the first post of each day....so that there is a link to click to see what transpired the previous day.

That is a good starting Lantus dose for Star. You will find that getting Star on canned low carb foods will help with the numbers a great deal. (We were on Vetsulin for 6 weeks ourselves!!) Here is a link to Janet & Binky's food chart. Try to select a low carb brand, <10% and have on hand some canned foods that are high in carbs >18% with gravy. We use the gravy alone to bring up the numbers if they go low. We also have karo syrup on hand with the gravy foods at all times. You will read more about that in the Hypo tool kit described in the above sticky.
Janet & Binky's food chart: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html

There are others who will be by to welcome you to LL and maybe give you some hints about changing over to the canned. It is important to give them low carb foods along with the insulin. I am so happy to see you here and hope that you and Star will enjoy Lantus. :mrgreen:
 
Great job with the SS! :razz: Fill in the amount of insulin you gave under the U column, okay?
There is a sticky that is entitled tight Regulation Protocol above: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581

"Hold the initial starting dose for 5 - 7 days (10 - 14 cycles) unless the numbers tell you otherwise. Kitties experiencing high flat curves or prone to ketones may want to increase the starting dose after 3 days (6 cycles)"

What kind of syringes are you using? do you have ones that show half unit markings? I use the Walmart Reli-On 3/10cc 29 Gauge 1/2" syringes. We do measure smaller than one unit increase, so you will need the syringes that show half units. When we increase the dose, it is usually in increments of .25u.

What dry food are you giving her and what kind of canned have you tried?
Have you been testing for ketones?
 
I called 4 pharmacies to try finding a smaller one. No, these do not have half marks. My 39 year old eyes are going bezerk trying to see such a small dose. Also the vet tech was very concerned about me switching. What do you suggest?

The only canned food she will eat is the Publix brand chicken flavor, which is what I keep on hand for low BG times. Even then she only eats maybe 1/8 of the can and walks away. Sometimes she will only lick at it. And it upsets her tummy when she goes potty. :(

The dry food she is on is called Natural Balance Original Ultra Premium Formula. It has only been since switching to this that she has been regulated (for the most part) regarding the diabetes. (Because it's the only food she will eat without hesitation).

I am open to options. :-D

She will not eat in front of people, she's a shy eater, and very picky.
 
Welcome to lantus land--One reason Star cat has high numbers is use of the dry food---There are many low carb wet foods far better for him/her--
Check this list for foods that we use here--I personally use fancy feast Classics only, which are low carb & work for my cat--
Your kitty may be eating a high carb, high fat food..upsetting the tummy--Any other health problems?? Maybe Star needs a vet check?
We here have our mantra which is Patience & Consistancy, as lantus is a differnt kind of insulin..
Please check this link for canned foods( there is a new list & an old one) that maybe accessible to you--Again Welcome.. :-D

http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm
 
I bought some strong reading glasses at the dollar store..and I use that when I measure the doses. It leaves my hands free but I really get sick if I look up while wearing them! :lol:
If you have a Walmart nearby, you could go to their pharmacy. As I said, I use their Rel-On syringes
3/10 mil cc 29 G 12.7 mm length (1/2")
the can also be ordered from Hocks online (see the box at the top of the page)

Not sure the carbs on that Publix chicken. Many kitties enjoy the Fancy Feast...my two like the chopped grill feast with the kelly green label. I also use the Wellness chicken which Petsmart now carries. The Wellness has good ingredients...maybe she would like another type? I get that freeze dried chicken at Petsupplies plus http://psp.know-where.com/petsuppliesplus
so maybe there is one near you that you can call to see if they carry Pure Bites freeze dried chicken (they are shown as dog treats...but it is only one ingredient so it is good for kitties too)
I sprinkle a little on top of the food.

If I were you, I would try the Fancy Feast...maybe add a little warm water to it? I wonder if she would be interested in fish flavors? They usually like fish but it is recommended only once per week.

Some people crush the dry on top of the canned so they will get the idea. (in Feb 2009, I didn't know any better, so I just stopped the dry cold turkey. But, they were used to eating some canned in the morning and evening already....so I just took away the dry) If Star Cat is not used to canned at all, that might not work...so it will be a slower transition.

ETA: here is a link again to the Tech Support forum on crating a Profile...it might be good if you could do that also...since you are doing so well! :razz: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17766
 
Here's a link to you post in health from http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=24409&p=244743&hilit=Star+Cat#p244743

If you can't find the syringes locally you can order from Hocks. (green link on top of the page) They are very reasonably priced and orders get to me in CA in less than a week.What meter are you using? Many here use the Walmart Relion, but also at hocks you can get the Infinity. It has strips even cheaper than the Walmart brand. You can get a meter and 50 strips for $20 after that the strips are about $16.50 for 100. We do a LOT of testing here and cheaper strips make it easier to justify.

Keep trying different foods for Star. Tess turns up her nose at the premium brands , but likes Fancy Feast and Sophisticat Supreme. For her it is a matter of texture. Many are just so soft and mushy. A cat used to crunchies may be turned off by that. Would you consider raw food? It is really the healthiest for them. Try offering her a bite or two of raw chicken and see if she goes for it. There a lot of options for raw foods from pre-prepared to grinding meat and bones and making your own supplement mix. Check out Dr. Lisa Pierson's site Actually read all her pages, lots of good info.
 
Thanks everyone. I can certainly try Fancy Feast.

Can you "dumb it down for me" regarding how I would transition her over if she likes it? I like the idea of putting some dry food on top.

Here's my concern: The way it works now, I can leave the dry food out all day, so I don't worry about her being with out access to food. What do you do with wet food? Two times a day and that's it? I would hate for her not to have access to food at the +6 should she need it while I'm at work...

Let me know and I'll certainly try.

I appreciate all the support. Just updated her chart. She's at 399 at the +9 (I'm so bummed that I missed the +6)

Thank you everyone!

Rebecca (Treehouse Mom)

PS I will work on setting up a profile. :)
 
((((((((((Rebecca)))))))))))))) Many people leave canned food out all day, if they are hungry they will eat it. Others freeze portions and set those out, as they thaw the cats can eat and it stays fresher. Many of us use timed feeders, they open at the chosen time and the food stays fresher since the air doesn't get to it. Here is the link to the old canned food list Most of the classic FF flavors on on that, not the newer list.

All that said many of us give several small meals at the start of the cycle so the insulin can work with it. Later in the cycle the insulin is losing it's effect and food then make BG rise even more. Star won't starve without food for a few hours. She may not like it, but she won't starve. Also we take the food up 2 hours before preshot time so there will be no food spike showing for that test.

Anne and Muffin have a condo open today. Muffin was the champion dry food addict in LantusLand. Anne finally got her converted and she was off the juice shortly afterwards. You can PM her to see how she did it from her condo, click the PM link under her avatar. Dr. Lisa has a page on transitioning to wet food on her site too.
 
Hello and welcome and Do Lou was a very very hard cat to get off dry he hated canned so it was a slow effort for us but by the time we got off dry to canned his numbers improved a lot. I started him off by mixing some dry with canned or sprinkling it on top I did not want him to just fast and not eat so we took our time as in like over 2 months to get off dry this was after going to lantus before that he was on N. Anyway take a look at the Janet and Binky food chart since you may want to get some low carb dry to help with the transition period since she is a shy/picky eater Do Lou likes the merricks cowboy cookout and surf and turf really well and we just recently started looking at some of the low carb 9 lives to try. He is not real big on FF flavors but will eat them sometimes. Once again welcome to LL and just take your time and be patient with food change over I never thought I could get my cat off dry but I did.
 
Welcome to LL. I hope you and Star will do well on Lantus.

Here's a link to Dr. Lisa's article on transitioning to canned food:http://catinfo.org/docs/TipsforTransitioningPDF12-18-09.pdf
And here's the link to her whole article: http://catinfo.org/

I moved all of my cats to canned when I moved Blackie and I had a really hard time with one civie. But I followed Dr. Lisa's tips and didn't give up and finally my civie ate canned food.

Also, if you order syringes from Hocks, I recommend the GNP brand. They're exactly like the Monoject, but cheaper.
 
My cat was a very picky dry food addict and I had a hard time transitioning her.
I crushed her dry food and sprinkled on top of canned food mixed with a little water.
She would only eat a teaspoon or two of the canned. So then I would give her the dry afterwards.

Her dry food was EVO Cat & Kitten Grain Free low carb, so it was not as bad as the dry you are using.
EVO dry has 7% carbs per serving compared to about 31% carbs the Natural Balance has.
http://www.evopet.com/products/default. ... ga&id=1500

If you cannot transition your cat to the wet in a timely manner, the EVO would be a better dry food option.
(Do not get the weight maintance version- it is higher in carbs=13%)
 
Just wanted to welcome you to Lantus Land where you will learn as much as you will let yourself :-D Ann had a great suggestion to contact Anne/Muffin because that really was an undertaking to get Miss Muffin off of dry food. Anne also has an OTJ (off the juice) condo today that you could visit and then just click on the "PM" on the right side under the avatar. Good luck and we're all here for you!
 
I'm certainly in the right place!

And may I just say to Lisa and Do Lou, that kitten pic is adorable!!!

Do you think she's high just because of the food or could it still come down because she's only on day 3 of Lantus.

In general, everyone seems pretty happy on Lantus, is that correct?

I will look at the food links come up with a plan. I see the point that it's important.

How about I offer her the wet food and then put dry down after? Would that be a good start?

Also, our other kitty, Benny, will certainly polish off any wet food I put out. She's the pushy, non picky eater. :) bcatrun_gif
 
yES WE are all works in Progress here...We have a very strong bond here in lantus & we are all here for each other..
Many cats have gone into remission here-147 since 2008--But some will not--But we are all working here to keep our cats healthy, well & Happy.
Most of our cats were very ill when we first came, but are so much better now--Star Cat will get there--We are all here to help you :mrgreen:
 
147 cats in remission since 2008?!!! That is amazing. Do you all realize what a valued resource you are?

Very impressive!

I am going to suck it up and buy strong reading glasses at the dollar store tomorrow. :oops:

The things we do for our kitties!

Night all.
 
You could use a magnifying glass....(I need my hands though, so that doesn't work for me)
And don't forget the syringes!! You had quite a day today! :mrgreen:
Great job!!
 
Hi Rebecca and Star :razz:
Welcome to Lantus Land!

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You know, she is quite gorgeous!Beautiful colours!
I dug up a pic of your sugar kitty :-D I had to post it here - so sweet!
Have a good nite!
 
Welcome to lantus land! I'm relatively new here, but after 3 weeks on Lantus, Sue is in day 9 of his "off the juice" trial! What dry food is Star Cat eating? Evo Chicken and Rice dry is low in carbs, but is not good if there is any kidney issues because it is quite high in phosphorous! You can order a product called FortiFlora to sprinkle on the wet food to entice Star Cat to eat wet food. It is a probiotic made of animal digest which is what pet food companies spray on dry food to make it so yummy to cats. It worked like a charm for my kitties!

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=fortiflo ... 3b94e96d05

Here's more info on transitioning to wet food from Dr. Pierson:
http://catinfo.org/docs/Tips%20for%20Tr ... -18-09.pdf

Good luck!!!
Jenny (and Sue)
 
Welcome Rebecca and Star! Everyone has given you lots of good information and I'm so glad that you are open to what they are saying. I agree that the dry food is probably one good reason why Star's numbers are so high, plus the fact that Star's only been on the Lantus for three days. Just wondering...do you have a walmart close by? That is where I get my syringes w/the 1/2 unit markings...$13.00 for 100. The Relion meter and strips are also very reasonable in price. I am a walmart girl, for sure!! Also, I get my canned food from Petsmart, the sophisticat brand. They have many 0%-2% carb wet foods. My cat love them. Just make sure you don't get the "Supreme"
beef and liver - 1
country style - 1
liver & chicken - 1
Mariners catch - 0
Mixed grill - 0
turkey & giblets - 0

My Ali was the queen of "oh that canned wet food is just so yucky" and it actually has taken me almost two years to get her off the dry food completely. The only dry she gets now is a few pieces of temptations for her nini snack. It may take some time, but it is possible!!

So, good luck and again, welcome!!
 
One of you asked if she had been to the vet recently. She's been within 6 months. She is generally healthy, but when she first was diagnosed she was on death's door. I thought we were going to loose her. But here we are! :)

She really freaks out about going to the vet, which is why I started testing her at home. Also, she was crashing maybe once a month or every other month (seizures) in the beginning. I couldn't stand it any more for her.

I watched videos on youtube about how to test her, what to buy and all of that. She has not crashed since I started home testing over a year ago. :-D
 
You know, she is quite gorgeous!Beautiful colours!
I dug up a pic of your sugar kitty I had to post it here - so sweet!
Click to expand...

Oh My gosh! Thank you! :) I have to agree, she's a sweetie. SUCH A NIGHT TIME SNUGGLER tooo!!!! :)
 
She had been on 2U of vetsulin twice daily for quite a while. I would adjust slightly as needed, but that was the basic dose.
 
treehousemom said:
She had been on 2U of vetsulin twice daily for quite a while. I would adjust slightly as needed, but that was the basic dose.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that makes sense.

With regards to starting dose, our protocol allows for us to consider the dose of the previous insulin when setting a starting dose for Lantus. You say Star has been pretty regulated on 2 units of Vetsulin. I would think a starting dose of 1.5 or even 2 units would be appropriate for her. So far it is looking like 1 unit BID is not enough.

Since you have already done 6 cycles on 1u BID, what I would be would be to follow this part of our General Dosing Guidelines:

Hold the initial starting dose for 5 - 7 days (10 - 14 cycles) unless the numbers tell you otherwise. Kitties experiencing high flat curves or prone to ketones may want to increase the starting dose after 3 days (6 cycles).

and this:

After 3 consecutive days (6 cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 300 increase the dose by 0.5 unit.

So I would increase to 1.5 units BID tomorrow to see if you can get Star back into a nicer range of numbers.
 
I'm sure Libby can expand on this, but if you do get Star Cat switched to low carb (LC) wet food, you may need to decrease her insulin dose because you will be significantly decreasing her carb intake. Right, Libby? I'm hesitant to say anything because I'm so new, but I know Dr. P says that over and over on her website.
http://catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes
 
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