1/31 Leo PMPS 359, +3.5 292

Yesterday's condo here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=35589

After Leo's nice yellow surf two days ago, followed by a leap into the high reds and pinks, we're back to the norm: high, flat, and pink. At 3.75u for 5 cycles now, and a possible increase tomorrow if the numbers don't improve, I think big boy is on the verge of entering high dose land. We've never seen blue, and high yellow is still a rare occurrence. Although there were some gaps in my data when I was learning to test, the lowest he's ever gone that I know of in the five weeks since we started insulin is 275. :cry:

Working at home today and digging in for tomorrow's big storm in the Midwest. Hope all kitties and beans everywhere are having a good Monday.

Re: 1/31 Leo AMPS 354, +4 369, +6 343

HI Lacie
I have not stopped by your condo yet but your higher numbers drew my attention.
I too have a handsome Orange and white Man but he weighs about 19 pounds.

Max has been OTJ since last April so I do not have a daily condo but I thought I should pop by
and have you look at his ss.

Hopefully you will feel a little less discouraged in getting into higher numbers and higher
dosing by having a look at my Max.
We went up to 6u until he finally broke and came crashing down.
Sometimes you just have to give the insulin that he needs and not focus only on how much it is. You might reach a point where further testing for IAA and acro might be suggested
but keep following the protocol as you are and take one day at a time.

You are doing a great job with Leo!

Re: 1/31 Leo AMPS 354, +4 369, +6 343

Yep, all those reds and pinks look familiar. That run of green must have really caught the two of you off guard!

You brightened my day. I've been suspecting acro for a while now, but considering your experience will withhold judgment another couple of months. Thank you so much.

Re: 1/31 Leo AMPS 354, +4 369, +6 343

Lacie, Hi & Welcome to lantus land--It is possible that some tiny infection can raise the bgs a lot--Has Leo had his teeth checked? Urinary tract infection?
A skin condition? These are some of the things that could raise the BG--Is he getting some high carb food from other cats?
And yes, he may take some time to come down as well--Hope you see better numbers soon.

Re: 1/31 Leo AMPS 354, +4 369, +6 343

Thanks, Roni. He had a dental in October for a big mess of gingivitis in his lower jaw. Diabetes symptoms showed up shortly after.

No skin conditions, but the UTI is a thought. I'll check around the board for symptoms to look for.

My house is a low carb zone for both humans and cats! All 3 get Wellness chicken or turkey canned. The humans follow the paleo diet so we get steak with butter!

Re: 1/31 Leo AMPS 354, +4 369, +6 343

OK the UTI can raise BGs so much! It's relatively easy to clear up & could be the cause of the high numbers.
You are doing a good job! Leo is a lucky boy :mrgreen:

Re: 1/31 Leo AMPS 354, +4 369, +6 343

Hi guys! Sorry for the pink . I do think you are doing well. FWIW: I agree with Randi - sometimes you do have to give what is needed - eventually you'll find the right dose, and things will start to break. Just keep doing what you're doing, it will get better.

I am currently treating Mannie for a UTI. Normally the symptoms are excess urination, straining while in the LB, frequent trips to the LB, any evident of pain when in the LB: meowing, etc. Odd thing for us was that Mannie really did not have any of the symptoms. What he did have were elevated BG #'s - higher than what was typical for him. I now know that for Mannie that was his symptoms. Might be worthwhile to have that looked at?

have a good night - and Leo? Aim for those yellows, OK - or you're gonna get more juice.

Re: 1/31 Leo PMPS 359 dose and food ????s

It's been 6 cycles on 3.75u now, with the first cycle in the high yellows, a bounce up into red the next day, and today was flat pink. Has Leo earned a .25u increase tomorrow morning? I can test starting at +6 tomorrow and all day Wednesday.

Also, my feeding schedule has been pretty haphazard. I feed him as much Wellness as he wants until +10 and then (usually) remember to take up his food. His nadir seems to be falling around +6. Is there a feeding schedule that will give me better results? Until this week he's been pitifully underweight; now he's gaining some but still has that hollow look around the hips which is why I've been free feeding him.

Still reading about Randi and Max and feeling more hopeful for my kitty. He's had a small case of sniffles this week; could be an infection as mentioned above.

Re: 1/31 Leo PMPS 359 dose and food ????s

HA! finally found one that resembles Leo!

Re: 1/31 Leo PMPS 359 dose and food ????s

Lacie
It's great that Leo is eating. Being unregulated, his food is not being absorbed as it should
be by his body, requiring him to eat more.

How much would you guess he is eating during the day?

Many people here, including myself, feed mini meals through out the day.
I found this helpful in keeping his BG levels steady and hopefully reduces some
drops in BG when the insulin is working at its peak.
+9 is a great time for the last snack before PMPS. You can do a +9 test just before the snack,
then food away at +10, test and feed again at PMPS.

Many times I would see Max drop from +9 to PMPS and that was a very nice sign that Mr. Pancreas kicked in and brought his numbers down.

I will defer the dose to others as I have been off board for a while but I would not be surprised
with an increase.
You might consider looking into possible UIT as well.

Glad you were able to find some info on us. Were you able to find our old condos?

Re: 1/31 Leo PMPS 359 dose and food ????s

Lacie: I agree that it might be worthwhile to have him checked out; I have a civvie that has occasionally had UTIs and never shown any symptoms. We feed Gracie on a PS, +1, +2, +3 minimeals with a +5 snack. I stopped feeding her after +5 based on a suggestion by Jill that feeding after nadir slows them down and may result in higher numbers. I know alot of people were feeding a +9 snack but stopped based on some info Jill put on our condo; I also had been doing that and stopped and Gracie's numbers have actually come down at PS typically because her lantus gives her that second dip. You will have to experiment and see what works for Leo...ECID; Randi's Max did great with a +9 snack; Leo might, too. Or you might take it away and see what happens. Good luck.

Re: 1/31 Leo PMPS 359 dose and food ????s

Celi: LOL! You nailed that Leo look down cold. He's a quizzical type.

Randi, he's a 12 lb. cat and is getting about 12 oz. per day. Wellness is a bit high in fat but not as bad as the Evo. I saw less bouncing when I switched over to the Wellness from Friskies, which has rice as the fourth ingredient though it's 8% carb.

I'm thinking that meal adjustments would be more effective once he comes down out of the red and pink zone, but I noticed you were making some adjustments with Max from the start.

The only UTI symptom Leo has is excessive urination, which is also just an unregulated diabetes symptom. But keeping Michelle and Mannie in mind (Mannie had no symptoms either), I might make a vet appointment for the end of the week.

And yes, I found all of your condos. Fascinating to read. I love how the breakthrough came just as you were going out the door to a can't-miss appointment. These cats are li'l fascist dictators.

Edit: thanks Marjorie. That's exactly what I was looking for.

Re: 1/31 Leo PMPS 359 dose and food ????s

I would bump up Leo's dose to 4.0u tomorrow unless something dramatic happens tonight.

For now, I wouldn't feed past +6. Lantus is going to be better able to offset the effects of food during the first half of the cycle when it's having it's maximum effect on BG levels. The latter half of the cycle is when the effect of the insulin is waning. If you feed during this period, you may be causing numbers to rise unnecessarily. Once you see a change in Leo's numbers and if you know his pancreas is working, then it may be time to add in a snack later in the cycle. But, for now, I'd hold off.

Re: 1/31 Leo PMPS 359 dose and food ????s

Thanks Sienne. I really feel like we're starting to make a bit of progress with the yellow surf the other day, and I don't want him to get too comfortable with high numbers. I'll try holding back the food at +6 and see if it helps.

Edit: just pulled this post by Helen out of Randi's old condo as a note to myself for when we start having hard dives:
Here's something for you to consider. Pls forgive me if I've mentioned it before. To damper the fall or to soften the express elevator ride, here's a suggestion. Feed Max some food at shot time, but more like a snack. Feed him a bigger snack, like almost a meal, around onset. I'd have to open your SS to see when exactly that appears to be, but I'm sure you can figure it out. The food at onset should, yeah... should.... counter effect some of the insulin and soften up the drop to look more like a curve.