4/22 punkin +12/158 +13.5/200 pmps/231 +2/213

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julie & punkin (ga)

julie & punkin (ga)

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yesterday: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=41683

recap: punkin has a dental infection, lower right jaw, where he had 2 teeth extracted on 3/29. started on Clavamox yesterday 10am - 2 doses so far.

Yesterday's BG:
amps 275
+3 165
+6 136
pmps 254
+3 262

Should I increase his dose by .25? He's had 11 cycles (including this am) of 7.5u.

eta: I see no dose advisors are showing up as online, so i'm going ahead and shooting him at 7.5 (no change.) Can someone check in with me later today (I'll get more numbers) and let me know if i should increase him tonight?
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 increase dose this am?

Hi guys .. I'm so glad you found out what was going on with punkin .. so sad your baby is in pain but at least now you got some meds to help him .. Glad that you refused the metacam, can't even believe your vet would suggest it .. anyways, you know others will be along soon to help with dosing advice .. have a great weekend guys and get better punkin!!
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 increase dose this pm?

Hi, Julie & Punkin..
Sienne said this yesterday in your condo
Sienne and Gabby said:
Depending on what goes on with the infection, you may need to increase Punkin's dose. Because he's on an antibiotic, once the AB kicks in, you may need to reduce in a hurry. The reason it's important to keep the insulin dose up is that an infection + not enough insulin + not eating = a recipe for ketones. I don't remember that Punkin has a history of ketones/DKA but it's also worth getting a ketone test if his numbers don't start to come back down.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 increase dose this pm?

i know, her comment is why i'm asking more. He's still eating fine, and my comment after that was about when the AB kicks in. With my kids, i recall they could go back to school after 24 hours on an AB . . . by the time Sienne was writing that he'd been on it for about 12 hours, now 22. So i was thinking that the AB would be kicking in soon and if i increased him at this point, with the AB working, he could plummet.

not that that would be the worst thing in the world. i've got all the tools to deal with it.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 increase dose this pm?

Well, there you go! Don't want things to get too boring for you, Julie. Punkin is so beautiful. He looks exactly like a cat my family had many years ago. His name was Gemini and he was a lover. Good luck with the AB. I actually had a difference of opinion (imagine that!) with our former vet: he wanted to put Gus on Metacam for long term arthritis pain relief. After doing the research, I told him I thought it was too dangerous. He said that those types of warnings are always over protective and that the incidence of renal/liver failure was actually quite small. Enough said. Sending healing thoughts and catnip wishes to Punkin from Gus.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 increase dose this pm?

I was just looking at the pics you have posted of your furbabies. Just ADORABLE!!! Good luck with Punkin. I hope he feels better. Sounds like he's managing fine, though, so that's a relief. :-D
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 +2.75/231 vomit & diarrhea

the blessings of antibiotics . . .

he headed back downstairs after breakfast - and when i went to get him at +2 for the clavamox, there was vomit in a couple of places on the carpet. ugh. loose pile of poop in the box, not blow-out diarrhea but obviously an unhappy gut. he was laying against his water bowl again. i don't know if the vomit was from during the night or this morning.

i gave him the clavamox, got the box ready to test for ketones, but his BG is now down to 231, so i think i don't need to test yet. is that right?

i also picked up several jars of the beechnut chicken and broth, stage 1 and am thinking perhaps i'll give him some of that for his second breakfast, which is basically now.

other advice for the tummy? i know he needs to keep getting the clavamox - he hates it (of course) and a little bit of it missed and was on me this morning, but he got most of it today, all of it for the 2 doses yesterday. I don't have fortiflora all though will call the pet store and see if they carry it. I do have some peach Activia yogurt for people, if you think that would help?

anything else i should be doing?

ETA nevermind on the activia - the second ingredient is sugar. he's chowing down on the baby food, however.

ETAA: does anyone know if Optigest is ok and would be helpful? No fortiflora in town, although one place said that's a vet product and i haven't called the vet.

i should also add that he's not acting like he feels horrible. he's purring now, just washed my arms again and is generally not appearing to feel too sick. i've got the door closed so he can't get downstairs so i can keep a better watch on him.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 +2.75/231 Is Optigest OK for FD?

bumping - surely someone knows if it's ok . . .

this is what i found, but these folks sell it:
Is OptaGest® safe for my diabetic pet?

OptaGest® is safe to give to a diabetic animal. The only ingredients in OptaGest® are digestive enzymes and the soluble fiber, FOS (fructooligosaccharides). FOS is “fast food” for the friendly bacteria that lives in your pet’s digestive system. FOS is non-digestible to the pet and does not contribute to increased blood sugar levels.

Can I give my pet OptaGest® when taking an antibiotic?

Yes! When OptaGest® is given during the course of antibiotic therapy, it helps the friendly bacteria recover any losses and reestablish healthy levels more quickly. Also, when your pet isn’t feeling well, providing extra support with digestive enzymes gives overall support to the immune system as well.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 +2.75/231 Is Optigest OK for FD?

Julie: I don't know anything about optigest but for my cats, when they are on ABs, I give them acidophilus Pearls: http://www.pearlslife.com/. I get it at the health food store but Whole Foods also carries it if you have one.

I also give them slippery elm bark powder syrup when they have liquipoo and it works for them. You can get the pure powder at the health food store OR you can buy the capsules (buy pure) and sprinkle the powder on his food. If you make the syrup just put 1/2 c bottled water into a glass or porcelain pan with 1 tsp of the powder; whisk together and gently warm until it is a little thicker (it won't be thick thick...just not real liquidy). You can give 5 mls bid and separate from other meds by an hour. Sending healing vines to him!!!
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 +2.75/231 Is Optigest OK for FD?

You don't find the slippery elm to be kinda... aromatic?
Do your furkids willingly eat it sprinkled on their fuds?
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 +2.75/231 Is Optigest OK for FD?

Does it have a smell, MJ? If so, I can't smell it...better get my sniffer checked out :lol: :lol: :lol: I don't sprinkle...I use the syrup. I have several friends that sprinkle it and say it doesn't bother their cats. But my cats....gotta use the syrup.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 +2.75/231 +6/128 upset tummy

ok, thanks everybody.

6 hours til i feed him again, so i have some time to figure it out.

just checked his BG - +6 =128. gave him a tsp of baby food for a treat, which he liked. he's obviously wanting to eat more food, though. hoover intact. i can hear him licking his bowl from +3 right now. since he's not eating, he's not going more at the moment.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 +2.75/231 +6/128 +7/151upset tummy

he's holding ok - no more liquipoo or vomiting, so i'm going to run out and do a couple of errands while i can.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 +2.75/231 +6/128 +7/151upset tummy

Wow! You sure have your hands full. Poor baby Punkin. Good luck with whatever you choose to use.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 +2.75/231 +6/128 +7/151upset tummy

Aw, poor Punkin has been through the wringer lately. I hope he's feeling better ASAP!
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 +2.75/231 +6/128 +7/151upset tummy

Poor Punkin...and poor Julie!! What a day you've had. I hope you find something that will help the little guy. I'm just glad he doesn't seem to be miserable on top of it.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin IS BAYTRIL OK?

The vet is saying discontinue the clavamox and he either wants to give him a convenia injection (which i know about the issue on that) or give him baytril. Vet is suggesting Baytril as his first choice.

Is baytril OK for FD?

I'm going to post in the main health forum too, just because i need a fairly quick answer so it can be compounded today.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin IS BAYTRIL OK?

ECID, but Baby was on Baytril her entire OTJ trial & did just fine.. any medication does run the risk of increasing BG #s, but from my experience - it worked well for us.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 +2.75/231 +6/128 +7/151upset tummy

the vet is ordering it compounded - i "reminded" about the diabetes just in case anything special needed to be done to leave out sugar in the compounding.

good grief. i know this isn't a crisis, but somehow, i feel like i've been in a crisis situation all day.

and while i've been in this crisis, punkin is snoozing over there on the carpet, looking awfully content. I feel like Pig Pen carrying my own crisis in a cloud around me. :lol:

i'm going for a glass of wine and going to go out for dinner. I don't care if it is only 4pm. sheesh.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 +2.75/231 +6/128 +7/151upset tummy

(((Julie))) (((Punkin))) when our loves are not feeling well.. it does feel like a crisis! You are doing a great job.. the kittes seem to always be relatively stress free :lol:
I have not had the Baytril compounded before.. so hopefully that does not change it up much ..Enjoy your wine.. it is 6pm here & even it for were only noon.. well, some days are just that way ;-)
drinking24 Cheers!
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 +2.75/231 +6/128 +7/151upset tummy

A probiotic will help with the liquipoo, like Marjorie suggested. I have used FortiFlora -- your vet may have it or you can order it from Amazon or PetFood Direct. I've also used ReNew Ultimate. I've found it in the refrigerated supplement section of Whole Foods.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 +2.75/231 +6/128 +7/151upset tummy

hi Julie - what a day you've had. Hugs from us. So sorry that the clavamox did not agree with punkin - i hear some kitties do have a problem with it. FWIW, I would go with the baytril, certainly NOT the convenia. I hope the night is better! It always seems like a crisis when it's out furkids. Feel better punkin!
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 +2.75/231 +6/128 +7/151upset tummy

Hey Julie, I don't blame you for wanting an early glass of wine. Hope it works!! Another thing you can try, if Punkin will eat it, is plain Greek-style yogurt with active cultures. Many cats like yogurt. Two brands are "Face" and "Choban". Get the kind with 0% fat.
Hope the big guy is feeling better soon.
Hang in there!

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 4/22 punkin amps 317 +2.75/231 +6/128 +7/151upset tummy

julie, you may want to talk to your vet to find out if he's prescribed a high dose of baytril and if baytril is the best choice for this particular kind/strain of infection. baytril prescribed in high doses can lead to blindness in cats. baytril is also a heavy duty antibiotic. there's a time and place to use it, but oftentimes there are alternatives.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin +2.75/231 +6/128 +7/151 +10/156 pmps 158 Sh

oh gosh Jill, i'm just now seeing your post. someone stopped by and i've been offline for a couple of hours.

i'm looking at his numbers and he's been flat all afternoon.

+6 128
+7 151
+10 156
+11.75 158

What do I do about his insulin dose tonight? Hold it at 7.5? He's due in about 15 minutes from now, but i'll wait for advice.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin +2.75/231 +6/128 +7/151 +10/156 pmps 158 Sh

i started giving him baby food at +3 after the liquid diarrhea - he's more than happy to eat it. i think he'd eat fine.

i haven't given him the baytril yet, but . . . the vet's office is closed, of course.

thank you for being so right here, jill!
 
Re: 4/22 punkin +2.75/231 +6/128 +7/151 +10/156 pmps 158 Sh

i wonder if he'll eat any hc if you have to pull his numbers up.
this is NOT the norm, but because of the other issues i think i'd shoot a reduced dose. i'd take the dose down to 7 units just for tonight.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin +2.75/231 +6/128 +7/151 +10/156 pmps 158 Sh

thanks jill, and while you were looking, we looked up the dosage for cats online for the baytril. yes, he has it a high dose. it works out to him needing 32.5 mg/day of baytril, and the 1 ml contains 22.7 mg/ml - meaning that the vet prescribed 45 mg in a day for punkin.

i guess that is the final straw. i'll find a new vet. and THANK YOU for raising that side effect. it mentions it on ehow about the blindness.

i'll drop the dose to 7.0 so he doesn't have problems tonight. better to have him too high for a short while.

did i say thank you again!?! i'd hug you if i were there!
 
Re: 4/22 punkin +2.75/231 +6/128 +7/151 +10/156 pmps 158 Sh

the correct dose for his weight would be .7 ml BID. that's 30% less than he prescribed. :shock:
 
Re: 4/22 punkin +2.75/231 +6/128 +7/151 +10/156 pmps 158 Sh

yes, better safe than sorry tonight. you can always take the dose back up in the morning.
hope his tummy feels better soon... and please do talk to the vet about baytril. i don't want to poo-poo the drug. there is definitely a time and place for using it, but if there are alternatives, i'd opt out of the baytril. i don't know a thing about baytril dosing, but your vet does. good idea to talk to him!
 
Re: 4/22 punkin pmps 158 VOMITED

Jill, he just vomited. nothing in his stomach but fluid. i haven't shot yet. does that change things? haven't given the baytril yet either.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin +2.75/231 +6/128 +7/151 +10/156 pmps 158 th

Julie, my cat, Simon was on baytril recently for a UTI. His bg went up just slightly during the time he was on it. Simon was on 1/2 of a 22.7 mg. tablet once a day and he weighs 14.5 pounds. I also gave him a 1/4 of a pepcid during that time because his tummy was a little upset. My civvie, Cleo was also put on baytril, but her vet (different vet because I hadn't switched her over to Simon's at that time) put her on 1/2 tablet 2 times a day of a 22.7 mg. tablet. The difference is that Cleo is much bigger (19 pounds). She did fine on the baytril.

Sorry you are having such a time with your vet -- sending healing thoughts and prayers to Punkin.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin pmps 158 VOMITED

oh no. his poor tummy!
if it were me, i wouldn't shoot 7u under these circumstances. in fact, i'd let his tummy settle a little while and then try to get him to eat something before shooting any insulin.

have you given him anything for nausea today?
1/4 of a 10mg Pepcid AC tablet given about 30 minutes before a meal helps settle alex's tummy down.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin pmps 158 VOMITED

i don't have any pepcid but can send the husband out to fetch some. i'll get some and try it.

am i stalling or just not shooting?
 
Re: 4/22 punkin pmps 158 VOMITED

julie1220 said:
i don't have any pepcid but can send the husband out to fetch some. i'll get some and try it.

am i stalling or just not shooting?
Click to expand...

make sure he gets Pepcid AC (10 mg tablets) --- NOT pepcid complete.

as far as stalling or shooting... you'll have to see how things go over the next little while.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin pmps 158 VOMITED

have i said thanks yet? :-D husband's on his way - i'll try the pepcid, wait a few minutes, try the baby food.

i can shoot late tonight/tomorrow morning - tomorrow night i'm hoping to watch my son at a performance that would mean i'd need to be leaving here by 7:30pm - which is now for us. regular shot time today was 7pm.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin pmps 158 VOMITED

is it possible for someone to be on in another 1/2 hour to help me then?

ETA: how do you get the 1/4 tablet down the kitty? crush in food? he's horrible to pill under the best circumstances and with his mouth sore . . .
 
Re: 4/22 punkin pmps 158 VOMITED

if you dissolve the pepcid in a little water (a quarter tab is VERY small) will he let you syringe it into his mouth? do you have an oral syringe?

give him the pepcid and then wait for 30 minutes before you to try to feed him. when you do feed him, give him a different flavor than what he just brought up. he'll be more likely to want to eat a different flavor... can't blame him.

i will try to stay online, but i have to tell you i've been having major connectivity issues. comcast says it's fixed. so far so good. cheryl (sienne) is also around.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin pmps 158 VOMITED

julie1220 said:
i can shoot late tonight/tomorrow morning - tomorrow night i'm hoping to watch my son at a performance that would mean i'd need to be leaving here by 7:30pm - which is now for us. regular shot time today was 7pm.
Click to expand...
don't worry about that now, ok?
right now, we don't even know if you'll be shooting tonight. whatever happens, you won't miss your son's performance tomorrow night! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 4/22 punkin pmps 158 VOMITED

the husband only could find 20mg tabs, so somehow we'll work 1/8th crumb off of it! :lol:

i do have the oral syringe that was with the clavamox. he's not crazy about it but i'll try. would it be possible to give him a little diluted baby food, maybe a tsp, and crush the pepcid in it and just let him eat it? then wait to give him more?

i don't have another flavor of baby food, but the husband is stopping at a second store looking for natural yogurt and i'll have him look. it's an organic place, so they won't have gerber or beechnut, but he's going to call me and i'll only get pure ingred.

if nobody's on i'll manage. i kinda have an idea of what i'm to do. thanks for explaining it all in detail!
 
Re: 4/22 punkin pmps 158 VOMITED

hahaha, the thing is he spins poi - it's those swinging balls of fire thingies that you sometimes see at Hawaiian celebrations - and his club is performing tomorrow night. we have yet to see him do it with the club and he graduates may 15th, so we gotta go. in my head, however, poor punkin is already riding 2 hours in the back of the car to sit for the 30 minute performance with us. hahaha.

i'm a plan ahead type! i'll borrow patience pants for now!
 
Re: 4/22 punkin pmps 158 VOMITED

ack. good luck with the 20mg tablets. been there. done that and it's not easy. :lol:
if you think it'll be easier, you could crush an 1/8 tab with a little bit of baby food.

when you do feed him tonight, put as much water as he'll tolerate in his food. you don't want him to dehydrate.
 
Re: 4/22 punkin pmps 158 VOMITED

success - DH now equipped with pepcid ac, baby food and fage organic greek yogurt. coming home now.

yes, i think he'll eat it if i put it in food. he likes his food and he doesn't like to be restrained. i'll also add a bunch of water - i always do.

i'll stop the play by play! ;-)
 
Re: 4/22 punkin pmps 158 VOMITED

lol! you're doing fine.
let's see if you can get some food into him AND let's hope it stays down. i have a hard time with the idea of shooting 7u or more into a vomiting cat.
has punkin ever thrown ketones or had diabetic ketoacidosis?
 
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