5/24 - NEED HELP! Fax PMPS 561.6

Help!
As many have you have seen I am new to the forum and desperately trying to get Fax's levels under control.
In short - he was diagnosed with diabetes last spring, honeymoon-ed from late October until we moved house last month. Now we are having a hard time getting dosages sorted out etc.
I don't have a tonne of data yet but I have entered everything taken since May 6.

Thanks so much!

ps. sorry about the 911 - I wasn't aware there were rules about the icons!

Re: 5/24 - Fax PMPS 561.6

I know this number is scary high for you but usually the 911 is for kitties that are hypoing or have a RIGHT NOW emergency. There are lots of folks with experience with high numbers so you might just want to add "NEED HELP W/HIGH #s" in your subject line and take off the 911.

I do hope the more experienced folks can help you get his numbers down soon. Keeping Fax in our prayers for lower numbers.

Re: 5/24 - Fax PMPS 561.6

Good Evening.....I took a look at your spreadsheet and was wondering how you came up with your initial dose.

The initial dose was what the vet told us to administer.

Thank you ;-) ;-)

Alot of folks come in with doses their vets determined to be ok but which are either way too high or way too low. I hope some of our dosing gurus will be by really soon to help you determine a good dose.

Thanks again.....my heart always stops a minute when I see the 911...we've had some scary ones.

I just want to welcome you and Fax to LantusLand. I'm sure one of the dosing experts will help you get Fax's situation all sorted out. One thing to keep in mind about FD is, as they say, it's a marathon, not a sprint. The ladies here really know this stuff, so even if the change doesn't happen overnight (and it likely won't), I'm sure you and Fax will see improvement in those numbers.

Keep posting questions, and in the meantime take a look at the condos (threads) and spreadsheets of other kitties here. There is a lot to learn from the experience of others, as well as all the stickies.

Amy & Trixie

When Spot was first diagnosed, the vet started him on Humulin N...we started with 1u and worked our way up to 7....nothing was helping. Finally decided to try Lev...started out with 1u and started getting data.
I have a feeling that maybe Fax is getting to much insulin. Just my opinion and I'm hardly what you would consider a dosing expert. I hope someone else will come along and see what they think.

hello!

here a link to your previous thread here today:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=44042



just a little tip, try to keep one thread/condo per day or we will lose out of previous posts to your concerns.
This way, all info stays in one place for your kitty.

after reading your previous thread, looks like food timing suggestions were given, give that a try and make notes along your spreadsheet.
looks like you do need a bit more data as well, so I agree with that, as per previous thread.

by the way, welcome to Lantus Land!
Just a little patience, ketones checking a must, random spotchecks, and lots of reading, fun fun fun eh?

Deb may very well be right....you can have high numbers from too much insulin, too, and you've been increasing by one unit. We follow a protocol where if nadirs are between 200 and 300, we increase by .25u; if they are above 300, we increase by .5u. By increasing by an entire unit, you could have easily missed his "fitting dose". So we start low and go slow to find the correct dose for our babies.

It is a weird thing that too much juice can cause high numbers but I've seen it in my own kitty.

Alot of our really experienced dosing folks are on the east coast so it's getting late there but you can keep opening your condo and just hit "post reply" and put "bump" in the text space and that will keep bumping you to the top. You can also click on the "question" button and that might help, too. Good luck....welcome to LL and I'm sure help is on the way.

Link to Previous Thread

I'm linking this morning's thread because there is a lot of good information in it.

For right now, I agree with Laurie's suggestion to hold the dose and collect some data over the next few days, then we can evaluate the dose a little better. From what is there, there isn't really anything screaming "too much insulin" to me, but it's hard to tell for sure. A few days worth of numbers will help a lot.

It looks like you moved his dinner up tonight so it would coincide with shot time, is that right?

Welcome to Lantus Land!

All of this support sure does make a difference - I am feeling less stressed. Thank you.

If it is too high of a dose - how do I go about cutting it back?

Libby: Yes I moved his meal and shot time to exactly 12 hours after the first dosage. We were told an hour or two would not make a difference.
I will keep testing!

I agree with Libby -- Laurie's suggestion is a good one.

The high numbers are upsetting. We can work on getting them down once we have more data. If you respond reflexively, it may only compound what could be a problem. Work on the test-feed-shoot sequence (all within a few minutes), shooting on a 12-hour cycle, and all of the suggestions that were in your earlier thread. Getting that data will give you a firm foundation upon which to make decisions.

Ok - so to recap just so I am clear:

Keep him at 5 units, test as often as I can to obtain more data, dosages 12 hours apart
Do not change food until more data has been collected

let's see what happens tonight, but you got the right idea.

Hi again, Fax's bean....would you mind telling us what we can call you? It's just easier when we can call you by name, not Fax's bean. ;-)

I know the higher numbers are scary, but he's not in immediate danger from them....so breathe, ok? We will help you figure out what to do with Fax to get him into better numbers, but it will take a bit of time to do that. For now, keep doing what you are doing...stay with your current dose, gather test data and see where his numbers go, as we talked about in your other condo.

We ask that everyone post one condo (thread) per cat per day, because the Lantus ISG is a busy place and there are so many threads. It makes it easier if you keep all of your questions and updates in one daily condo.

hi there! you've already received some great advice.
just wanted to stop by to say hello and welcome to the group!

So glad Libby, Laurie, and Sienne have been by to help. They are great at figuring out the best plan.

I completely know how scared you are right now, we all do, because we've all been in your shoes. I've never cried so much as I did the first few weeks of all this craziness, and I don't cry. You're in the best hands possible here so know that you have a whole bunch of people reading your condo, and will every day, to see how you and Fax are doing. The advice you get here is so much more reliable than you'll get from a vet because the people here have been doing this sugar dance for years while vets get very little training in it. Everything WILL be okay...you mark my words. My advice is to look at other cats spreadsheets (usually linked in all of our signatures at the bottom of our posts). If will show you what we're all dealing with. It's my suggestion that you especially look at Gus' condo. This is a cat whose BGs were so high they couldn't be recorded and he's doing so much better now....and he has no ill effects from the high numbers so don't worry about Fax being up there in the stratosphere!! Things will improve!!!

Ha! My name is Roisin - I didn't add that anywhere!

Sorry about the second condo - won't happen again!

No worries. It takes a little while to absorb all of the details of Lantus Land!

The idea, for the time being, is to not change anything. Keep the dose the same unless you see a drop into lower numbers. If that happens, please post and we'll help.

What you want to also do is make sure you have high carb food in the house. Either Fancy Feast or any other brand of food that has gravy in it that is above 17% carb. We use the gravy in HC food to steer numbers if they are running lower than we'd like.

Hi Roisin and welcome to Lantus Land to Fax and you!
You've gotten some great advice this evening. The whole FD thing is overwhelming at first, but keep reading the informational "stickies" at the top of the Lantus forum and ask as many questions as you need. We all want to help; some here are able to help with terrific advice, others with terrific support.
You will do just fine and Fax will get straightened out. The key word is "patience".

Have a good evening,
Ella & Rusty

hi Roisin!

we really all do get it how stressful this is. rest easy, though, you're just in the beginning and you'll need to hang in there. it takes a while to get it all figured out and to get kitties responding. you're on the right steps now, though. lantus likes everything on schedule! my vet said the same thing about it being long-lasting and so you had flexibility on the dose time. now i do everything possible to stay at 7am/7pm and try to stay within a few minutes of that.

don't change the volume of the dose without checking with people here - one of the dosing advisors will be able to suggest a new dose. if you want input on that, put it in your subject line and ask for advice. every time you change a dose you'll get wonky numbers for a while.

try giving food right after you test, then give the shot. try keeping food within the first 3 or 4 hours after the shot and then have a dry spell until the next shot. if you get a schedule going Fax will adapt to whatever the new schedule is. I lovingly call it the Feed Me Contract. Punkin will accept changes in the Feed Me Contract, but then i have to stick with it once he's adjusted. otherwise he complains, rightfully so, if i mess with his contract. :lol: ya gotta have a sense of humor to make it through all of this stuff! we laugh here whenever we can!

i try to test just before the shot and every 3 hours or so through the day until i go to bed. once your spreadsheet starts to fill out it's really eye-opening and you can tell how fax is responding to the insulin. it's incredible how much you can learn from it.

We'll help you - no worries. we're all in it together. before you know it you'll be helping someone else who is coming in new, worried about their kitter.

julie

That is pretty close to the feeding schedule that try to stick to already: breakfast, then lunch 3-4 hours later, nothing til dinner.

Any suggestions for safe snacks/treats?

A lot of us boil chicken breasts and then cut it up into little cubes for snacks. You can also buy freeze-dried chicken and salmon. All of these treats are 100% protein and won't mess with their BG.

i use boiled chicken. did 2 chicken breasts in march, cut them in tiny bits and put them in a ziplock bag in the freezer. i bring out a tablespoon or so at a time. you want treats to be tiny - like 1/2" inch cubes, and fax will get used to that, even though it sounds tiny.

there is a list somewhere that i saw someone just updated on low-carb treats. maybe someone else has that link and can post it. i just use the chicken.

here ya go!

Low Carb Kitty Treats