Newbie here

Hello. Just wanted to introduce myself. My name is Jill and my husband is Bruce (who posts here under my name). We are the parents of 3 dogs, and 4 cats. Our cat Fenner was diagnosed with diabetes October 13, 2011. We have been using FDMB since we found out about his diabetes, and have gotten some wonderful feedback and help.
I'll give you some background:
Initially our vet put Fenner on Science Diet m/d and instructed us to give him 3 units of Lantus at 6:30 a.m. and 6:30 p.m. (6 units total per day). Thanks to the kind people here, we realized that was way too much to start. When I questioned the vet about glucose testing at home, he advised against it saying the cat really has to trust you to be able to do that successfully at home, and that it wasn't necessary. He had us schedule a glucose curve test for 11/4/11.
After advice from people on this board, we finally started glucose testing on Fenner and realized that his glucose levels were way below what they should be to give him insulin. It took us a few days to understand the levels and what they mean. Please take a look at his spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...IKaccDx_dFJDckJGMWR0NTNiVXlHZTBxcjhzVFE#gid=0
We currently have him on a combo of canned and some dry food.

We put a phone call into our vet and are waiting a call back from him tomorrow. I have cancelled the glucose curve test as I think that is something we can do at home. Plus, his levels will be elevated when he is in their office due to stress, so the numbers they get will not be what we would get in a calm, relaxed home environment. We just need help understanding what those numbers mean.
My worry is that Fenner gets glucose levels too low. What is an appropriate range? The vet told us 70-170 is what is considered to be a good range.
Just looking for some feedback/advice/glucose curve understanding.
Thank you!

hello, Jill, Bruce, & Fenner!!

wonderful to see you...we were following your story on the main forum.

regarding fenner's spreadsheet...can you go to the section "Publish as a webpage" and change your sharing status to
"Anyone with the link"

currently it is only viewable to you...

Binks regularly tested between 45 and 70 while he was in remission...
i was never concerned because without administering insulin, there is no fear of a hypo event.

others may give you better or more in-depth information...

and congratulations on researching fenner's condition and thus keeping him safe!

celi & binks

Ok, I just changed it. I think everyone can view it now.

Welcome to Lantus Land.

Here's the link to your thread from yesterday on Health.

Seeing Fenner's SS, I am VERY glad you reduced his dose. These are great numbers but 3.0u would have made it challenging for you to keep his numbers in a safe range.

With the Tight Regulation Protocol that we follow, we look to keep numbers in the normal range -- 50 - 120. If you are needing to skip shots because of low pre-shot numbers, you may want to consider reducing the dose further. The initial dose of Lantus can be based on a cat's ideal weight. What does Fenner weigh and is this a good weight for him?

I hope you'll consider posting here on a regular basis. There is a great deal of information in the starred, sticky notes at the top of the Board. They will give you a solid foundation on using Lantus, this Board, and dosing. Please ask question. The people here are very generous with their time and their knowledge.

Hi Sienne -
Fenner's weight has changed quite a bit this year! At the beginning of the year, he weighed 14 pounds. In July, we rushed him to the vet for Seasonal Vestibular Syndrome. When he left there in July, he weighed 12 pounds. On October 13th we took him to the vet and he was diagnosed with diabetes. When he left there he weighed 9.03 pounds. One week later he weighed 10 pounds. This past weekend he weight 10.75 pounds. This is actually a really good weight for him currently.
Reading now what the protocol is for Lantus dosing (.25 unit per 1kg) he was WAY overdosed by the vet. We've skipped 3 doses now. I may be premature in thinking this, but I'm hopeful we can get him OTJ and regulate with food alone. That would be wonderful!
When we do need to inject again, we will definitely start low.
Bruce and I are so grateful for the help here!

Hello and welcome to Lantus Land!

As Sienne pointed out these are really good numbers.

Question - what was his BG at time of diagnosis?

I have no idea what it was. The vet didn't say, and we were too new at this to think to ask. He didn't even think we needed to do testing at home!

Welcome to the board Jill! Fenner's spreadhseet is amazing. I've been at this game for about two months and we've had a much rougher go at it. My vet also advised Against home-testing. It's a shame so many don't realize how helpful it is. I'm glad you found this group and I wish you and Fenner the best

Hi Jill, Bruce and Fenner,

Welcome to lantus land! You have done a great job by questioning things and doing your own research on Fenner's diabetes. You were right to cancel the curve at the vets. You can do it at home and save a lot of money too. My vet trusted me to do the dosing and was for home testing. Once your vet realises you are pro active in Fenner's diabetes maybe you can have that kind of relationship with them too.

Hope to see you posting everyday. We call it a daily condo.

I remember how dazed I was by Black Kittys diagnosis, I didn't even know cats could get diabetes!

That is very important to know. Please have them send you a copy of the bloodwork and let us know what the BG was at diagnnosis.

THOSE ARE LOVELY NUMBERS FOR SKIPPED SHOTS!!

celi & binks

I am wrong - Bruce said Fenner's BG was around 360 at diagnosis.

Hi Jill, Bruce, and Fenner - Welcome to LantusLand...the best place to be for you and your diabetic cat. The support and knowledge here is unmatched! Keep asking questions, and someone will always have an answer. You are never alone here!

Again, welcome.

Amy (& Trixie)

I'm wondering what will happen if you ditch the dry food. I'd really encourage you to put away the bowl, put the bag of dry stuff in a file drawer that you can lock or donate it to a shelter or feed the ferals in your neighborhood. Fenner doesn't need it.

Here's what I would suggest. Get a test at your normal shot times. If you keep seeing numbers like this (i.e., below 120), don't shoot. Feed how you usually do although hold a bit of food back and feed again at +3, especially if numbers are blue. When you feed, if your cat has a working pancreas, it will stimulate the beta cells in the pancreas to produce insulin and numbers will come down. To be honest, an even better alternative would be frequent, small meals if that's manageable with your schedules. Feeding this way won't overwhelm a healing pancreas. Many of us feed "mini meals" at various points during the day. If you could spread Fenner's meals out at shot times, +3, +6, and +9 that may keep him in good numbers. If that won't work for your schedules, don't worry about it or, consider getting a timed feeder.

If you see numbers start trending up and aren't coming down, you'll need to re-start insulin. While the initial dose formula would indicate a dose of 1.0u, given what you're seeing on Fenner's SS, I think even that would be too much insulin. I'd really give serious consideration to starting at a very small dose -- 0.25u.

Does this sound like a reasonable plan?

Unfortunately, feeding at those times doesn't work with our schedules. We test and feed between 5:30 - 6:30 am, feed again around 1:00pm, then test and feed around 6:00 - 6:30 pm. The thing is, when we give him food at the early morning meal, he usually doesn't eat it all. When I'm home at 1:00 pm, he has finished it. So, I'm not sure at what point in the morning he is finishing it, but he is.
I'm definitely not opposed to ditching the dry food. You mentioned a timed feeder - I've seen them for dry food. Do they make them for canned wet food? If so, is there a particular one you recommend?
We are completely in agreement with restarting insulin if needed at a very low dose like .25u.
Thanks again for your help!

This is the feeder I use -- it's 2-compartments and fairly low tech. Others like this 5-compartment model. I didn't have good luck with it. As long as you add water to canned food, it won't get crusty and is fine over several hours. I'm pretty sure both of these feeders are used for dry as well as can be used for canned food.

One option is to make "catsickles." You add enough water to canned food to make it soupy. You then pour/spoon the mixture into a container (cat food cans or I've use an ice tray) and freeze. You put out several before you leave and the food stays fresh for several hours.

It sounds like Fenner grazes. That's fine. It might be informative if you could see how much he eats and when on a day when you're around to keep an eye on things.

Wow! Those feeders are great! Looks like they can be used with wet or dry, which is great! Also love the idea of the catsickles. Thanks for the wonderful info!

I could not make it without the timed feeder! We use the 5 compartment one.

Hi Jill, Bruce, and Fenner!!

Great job so far and I hope that ditching the dry food totally will cause Fenner's numbers to come back down and stay those lovely greens. WOW on them without the juice!!!

Your vet will probably argue and may even tell you that he needs a fructosamine test. Don't let him convince you to do that. You are getting MUCH better, real time, and accurate data than a fruc
test will give you.

You've come to the best place to help Fenner. Glad you are here.....ask many questions. We have some amazingly knowledgable people....as you've already found out!