11/13 Atlas AMPS 246, +7 284, PMPS 331 (Food concern?)

Hi All,

Sorry I haven't been around, but life gets pretty darn busy lately.

I am hoping for some insight on Attie. He has been doing OK, but on Friday he 'went off his food again." Now those of you who have followed us for a while know he does this pretty consistently.

Well, Friday he pretty much refused to eat anything. Even the kibble was only a nibble. I have had doggy overnights this weekend, but have been home most early evenings to monitor, feed, etc. Friday's fit it seemed to me that he was doing some strong gulping, like lots of liquid in his mouth and a hard swallow. I attributed it to his ever present purring as cats drool when they purr. And he was purring the whole time I was home....just not eating.

So yesterday morning when I came home for a bit, it appeared to be lipsmacking and more purring. Offered him his food and he literally wretched at it. Tried some canned and he turned his nose up, offered him FF fish and he ate only half. Same challange in the evening and gave him 1/4 tab of Pepcid AC. He ate only half the FF and I left additional FF for overnight. He didn't touch it. Gave him fresh food options this morning and he appeared brighter today. Still gave another 1/4 tab Pepcid AC.

He's been sleeping/groaning. He just tried to eat and again wretched into his food clear liquid. I've decided we're going to withold food for the day and yes...vet tomorrow.

Is this pancreatitis? I am thinking it is a strong possiblity given he is prone to IBD too. Anything I can do for him in the meantime besides Pepcid AC? Anything I should watch for that would escalate this to an ER trip today?

Re: 11/13 Atlas AMPS 246, +7 284 (Food concern?)

chronic pancreatitis (or does my cat have a pepcid deficiency?)

Posted by: jojo and bunny(GA) and Y (IP Logged)

Date: December 13, 2007 10:26PM


things are going great. diabetic fluffy is nicely regulated. and then one day...just seems "off". BG numbers are higher. not eating much. maybe vomits later that night. hunched up in the 'meatloaf' position. lethargic. what is going on? you listen to the freely dispensed pepcid advice off board and after a couple of days fluffy seems to snap out of it. pepcid rocks! and recommend it to the next person on board that posts about their diabetic cat being "off".
however a few weeks/months later fluffy goes through the same episode. and again. and again. some of the episodes are worse than others. that last attack was bad and you got scared and fluffy was hauled off to vet for some basic blood work. yet nothing really abnormal on the results. is this just a normal part of being a diabetic cat? does your cat have a basic pepcid deficiency??? no.

it is estimated that AT LEAST 30% of all diabetic cats have what is known as Chronic Pancreatitis (CP). makes sense, the pancreas is the weak link with diabetics, in fact CP could be the causative factor on why fluffy became diabetic in the first place. simply put the pancreas has 2 types of basic functions the production of metabolic hormones (like the one everyone knows about, insulin) and the production of digestive enzymes. with pancreatitis it is the production of those digestive enzymes that is out of whack. when the pancreas 'misfires' and activates those digestive enzymes too early, the pancreas actually starts to digest itself and then the surrounding tissue and nearby organs, and systemic inflammation and toxin production ensues. there is a close link between CP with IBD and Cholangiohepatitis, (all three together collectively known as Triaditis).
so what now?

the best diagnostic test available is the fPLI (feline pancreatic lipase immunoreactivity ) [http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/courses_vm546/content_links/Clinical_Pathology/Lab_Tests/PLI.htm] not perfect but far better than the options we had in the recent past.
it is far better to have a diagnosis (always) because then you and your vet can form a plan better than just pepcid. SQ fluids and pain management top the list. CP flare ups ARE painful...look carefully at how your cat is acting, it is not easy to tell when a cat is in pain, they hide it well. it is not just nausea that is keeping fluffy hunkered down under the chair, it is pain.
possible tools your vet might have you use:
~SQ fluids
~ pain meds
~ anti-nausea meds (hey look pepcid falls in this category)
~ antioxidants (vitamin E ~water-dispersible form preferred and vitamin C ~non-acidic Ester-C form preferred)
~ liver support (milk thistle, denosyl, or marin)
~ vit b-12 injections(especially if bowel involved)
~ +/- pancreatic digestive enzymes (to 'predigest' food, however some controversy in vet med on whether or not to use these)
~ +/- antibiotics if indicated
~ +/- steroids if needed
~ +/- appetite stimulants if needed (and if liver not involved, some of these are contraindicated with liver issues)
can all be used to help the cat through the flare up. your vet can work up a treatment plan for managing your cat's CP flare up attacks.

the veterinary community is still undecided on the issue of fat content of food and whether or not it is something to be considered in feline CP. it is very much an issue in human or canine CP, however felines are very unique in how they utilize the fats (and protein) in their diets. anecdotally, some owners find that lowering the fat content (to about 35% or less) of their CP diabetic cat's diet even though it means they have to raise the carbs helps. ECID, you would have to experiment on that yourself. just a reminder on the topic of food..as a CP flare up begins cats will eat less in the days leading up to it and often not eat at all when the attack is in full force, know that it does not take many days of reduced calorie intake to make hepatic lipadosis possibly rear its ugly head, especially in a liver already compromised.

cats that are simply diabetic with no other condition going on should not need pepcid ever...if you are reaching for the pepcid again, maybe reach for the phone and call your vet instead and discuss the possibility that your diabetic cat might be one in that 30%.

links for those that wish to read about CP further:

[books.google.com]

[72.14.205.104]

Re: 11/13 Atlas AMPS 246, +7 284 (Food concern?)

Thanks for the post Barbara!!!

Very informative and Attie sounds practically text book, 'cept this is the first time we've reached for the Pepcid....


So I have on hand...

Pepcid AC, Ester C, and believe it or not digestive enzymes from when we were trying to get the IBD under control...

Re: 11/13 Atlas AMPS 246, +7 284 (Food concern?)

can't offer any advice because i have no experience, but what a great, informative post, barbara!

beth, i sure hope attie feels better soon.

Re: 11/13 Atlas AMPS 246, +7 284 (Food concern?)

I'M THRILLED TO BE ABLE TO VISIT AN ATTIE CONDO!!!
not so thrilled at the reason...but WOW! what an informative post Barbara shared...

sending "may it be easy correct" vines handsome Attie's way...

if you weren't so good at what you do, you wouldn't be so busy

Re: 11/13 Atlas AMPS 246, +7 284 (Food concern?)

Any chance this could be something more muscular with his swallowing response? If you can get a video, it may be helpful for the vet to see what is happening when Attie tries to eat.

Re: 11/13 Atlas AMPS 246, +7 284 (Food concern?)

In actuality, pepcid is for an acid tummy, not for nausea. A better choice for nausea is ondansetron. Vomiting clear liquid can either be a sign of pancreatitis or also kidney issues. When was the last time Attie's bloodwork done and his kidneys checked? A CKD (CRF) kitty will have an acid tummy and throw up clear liquid and not want to eat. In that case, pepcid AC is a good choice.

Does he seem to be tender in the pancreas area when you pick him up? If so, do you have any bupe you can give him? You could also give him some squids esp if you think he might be dehydrated. Check his gums and if they aren't slick or if, when you pull up his scruff, it doesn't go right back into place quickly...he's dehydrated.

Sending Attie healing vines. These are certainly not Attie numbers.....

Re: 11/13 Atlas AMPS 246, +7 284 (Food concern?)

Sending feel better soon vines to Attie.

Re: 11/13 Atlas AMPS 246, +7 284 (Food concern?)

Attie was to the vet a few weeks ago. To check out a broken tooth and if we needed a dental. Vet said no at that time and we were 5 months out from last bloodwork. He did get his rabies booster (3 yr.) at that time. Tech did note his 3rd eyelids were showing at that time and asked me about it. I had not noticed as it being odd for him.

It is not so much as only occuring when he trys to eat. It is pretty consistent every 15-30 minutes he does the lipsmacking and then coughs or wretches. I was laying in the master bed with him and now....I'm not so sure if it is actual tummy troubles. I honestly can't tell. When I try to listen to his lungs...he is purring so loud... ohmygod_smile He is definately not feeling well though as being off his food or even his favorite 'no-no' foods. It is like he wants to eat, but get a whif and yuck....

The Pepcit AC seemed to help this evening. He finally ate the FF fish. So he did get his shot. He was way high at over 300 so I would have shot him anyway, but knowing there is some food on board I feel better since his dose had dropped back to 0.50u . I was thinking skip the dose if he didn't eat at all, but his numbers indicated I need to shoot in spite of what I think.

Attie is cranky when I pick him up at all. Just a low cranky growl like I'm too weak to fuss, but I want you to know what you are doing is uncomfortable. I have no squids or pain meds on hand.

Truth be told we took him on a year ago ...nearly at anniversary for official adoption not knowing how much organ damage may have happened. It could be almost anything or a combo of lots of stuff...(crying). My Kreuger died last Thanksgiving... :cry: ...

I gave Attie an evening dose of Pepcid. He did end up eating the rest of the FF fish about an hour later.

(((Beth))) So sorry that Attie is not doing well, especially at this time of year for you. Fingers and paws crossed that you'll get definitive answers at the vet tomorrow and get Attie feeling more like himself soon! Poor guy.

Re: 11/13 Atlas AMPS 246, +7 284 (Food concern?)

mybuddybinks said:

sending "may it be easy correct" vines handsome Attie's way...

if you weren't so good at what you do, you wouldn't be so busy

Click to expand...

Honestly I am so tired....

The little business is finally turning steady and my thoughts are turning to hiring people to help. I have start-up loans to pay etc. and ...carpie....I am tired. Christmas is already booked solid. ohmygod_smile

I also took on a cat from our shelter who had buckshot in her leg. She also had kittens. Needed surgery and is now on cage rest with a pin in her leg...

did i say i was a bit ...tired... her pin comes out Nov. 30th and they think they have a home for her already. :mrgreen:

Hi Beth,
I hope you can figure out what is going on with Attie. Might it be a really big hairball? We are sending lots of healing vines and positive thoughts tonight. Whatever it is, I hope that it will be better soon.

Feel better, Attie! KTSS will be along later with some delicious chicken soup for you.

Ella & Rusty

Christie & Willie said:

(((Beth))) So sorry that Attie is not doing well, especially at this time of year for you. Fingers and paws crossed that you'll get definitive answers at the vet tomorrow and get Attie feeling more like himself soon! Poor guy.

Click to expand...

Thanks Christie...

I guess my mind is already racing to dismal conclusions and it may not be what I think...

Somewhwere between the 9am visit for 9 resident cats and the 6 dog walks...Attie will get to the vet. Thank goodness I plan 2 hour appt. windows.

Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) said:

Hi Beth,
I hope you can figure out what is going on with Attie. Might it be a really big hairball? We are sending lots of healing vines and positive thoughts tonight. Whatever it is, I hope that it will be better soon.

Feel better, Attie! KTSS will be along later with some delicious chicken soup for you.

Ella & Rusty

Click to expand...

Well, I say I know about feline diabetes....

None of my cats make hairballs. Really....none of them do. For all the petsits I do and clean up hairballs...my cats don't do that ?

All the rest is up to the vet, that is what we pay the $$$ for. :lol: