12/23/2011 Marilyn PM+5:85 PM+5.75:50 DROPPING AGAIN!

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Re: 12/23/2011 Marilyn PM+5:85 DROPPING AGAIN!

Hi Deb:

That's a pretty fast drop from +4 of 167. So she won't eat? I was going to suggest that you give her a little LC food if you can get her to eat a bit. There are two other things you can do:

1. retest in 30 mins from the last test and see if she slowed herself down. Of course, if she's still coming down at the same rate, she'll be close to 40.

2. if you absolutely cannot get her to eat something to slow her down, you can rub a drop of karo on her gums. I would not normally recommend this but if she's coming down fast and won't eat, you may have to resort to it.

The most preferable thing is to get her to eat a little LC. There is nothing wrong with this number as long as she slows down a bit...she's really coming down fast and that may be because she hasn't eaten. You don't want her to
get too low and have the issue of her not coming up because she won't eat.
 
Re: 12/23/2011 Marilyn PM+5:85 DROPPING AGAIN!

Deb:
Please update. I have to give Gussie squids and Gracie her shot all within the next 30 minutes. I'll check back in in a few minutes.
 
Re: 12/23/2011 Marilyn PM+5:85 DROPPING AGAIN!

Marje,
I'll monitor till you get back...
Carl
 
Re: 12/23/2011 Marilyn PM+5:85 DROPPING AGAIN!

Thanks, Carl. Was just checking for a quick update while squids warm :-D
 
Re: 12/23/2011 Marilyn PM+5:85 DROPPING AGAIN!

Correction on "NO" appetite, it's actually decreased appetite since PMPS...and just generally feels like crap since PMPS.

AMPS:241
2.0u Lantus (0.25 dose decrease from 12/22/11)
1/2 Can Friskies Pate Salmon
AM+2 = 275
PMPS = 368
2.0 u Lantis
1/2 Can Friskies Pate Salmon (decreased appetite; had to coax her to eat)
PM+1 = 332
PM+4 = 167
PM+5 = 85
PM+5.25 = 76
PM+5.25 = 1/2 Can (=1.5 oz) FF HC Grilled in Gravy
 
Re: 12/23/2011 Marilyn PM+5:85 DROPPING AGAIN!

Have you gotten a new # yet?
Carl
 
Re: 12/23/2011 Marilyn PM+5:85 DROPPING AGAIN!

Great!!! I'm glad you got to her slow down with food. I really, really don't like using karo for this but was worried that she wouldn't eat.

She should be getting close to a nadir....I would continue to check her ....maybe every 30 minutes until you see her rise if she'll let you. Then you can give her a break for an hour and see where she is.

Does that sound good? I'd also be careful about feeding more than she normally gets (not saying you are but just try not to); if she's already acting a little punk, you don't want her getting sick from too much
food or gravy that she isn't used to.

Super job, Deb.
 
Re: 12/23/2011 Marilyn PM+5:85 DROPPING AGAIN!

Correction on "NO" appetite, it's actually decreased appetite since PMPS...and just generally feels like crap since PMPS.

AMPS:241
2.0u Lantus (0.25 dose decrease from 12/22/11)
1/2 Can Friskies Pate Salmon
AM+2 = 275
PMPS = 368
2.0 u Lantis
1/2 Can Friskies Pate Salmon (decreased appetite; had to coax her to eat)
PM+1 = 332
PM+4 = 167
PM+5 = 85
PM+5.25 = 76
PM+5.25 = 1/2 Can (=1.5 oz) FF HC Grilled in Gravy
PM+5.75 = 50
PM+5.75: 0.5 mL Karo
 
Deb
The FF probably hasn't hit her system yet, so that should help raise her in a few more minutes. If you can check in another 15-20 minutes, that'd be great.
Carl
 
Re: 12/23/2011 Marilyn PM+5:85 DROPPING AGAIN!

Oh Marilyn!!! I thought you had slowed yourself down!

Deb: I know you are worried but .5 ml karo is alot....I only give that much to Gracie if she's in the low 30s or when she's gotten into the 20s (naughty girl). Usually a couple drops does the trick esp mid-cycle. But your'e doing a good job of checking her so keep at every 30 mins and remember that now with the karo on board, you'll have to remember she may come up and then wobble and then go back down. That's the price we often pay for using karo....they turn around on us. Or she may zoom zoom ....how's that for a good idea of what to expect? 50/50 she'll wobble and go down or zoom zoom.... ;-) :-D
 
Honestly, I don't know how you guys measure sticky, thick Karo in drops. A half mL is a measurement that I can understand. Drops, dollops, etc. are subjective.


AMPS:241
2.0u Lantus (0.25 dose decrease from 12/22/11)
1/2 Can Friskies Pate Salmon
AM+2 = 275
PMPS = 368
2.0 u Lantis
1/2 Can Friskies Pate Salmon (decreased appetite; had to coax her to eat)
PM+1 = 332
PM+4 = 167
PM+5 = 85
PM+5.25 = 76
PM+5.25 = 1/2 Can (=1.5 oz) FF HC Grilled in Gravy
PM+5.75 = 50
PM+5.75: 0.5 mL Karo
PM+6 = 46
 
Deb....ok...take a deep breath. 46 is still ok. Sometimes it takes a bit for the carbs to kick in.

Can you please just give her a tsp of HC gravy and see if she'll eat it. We want to be cautious about feeding her 1/2 can at a time (even if she normally eats it) when she is this low. If you give her too much when she's low and she
gets full, we have no way to get carbs in her other than to give her a lot of karo. It is always preferable to be able to give the HC gravy over karo IF she will lap it up.

Also...could you please just let me know how you both are doing? (I went ahead and shot Gracie early and Gussie's squids can wait a bit). Is she willing to lap up the HC gravy (tsp at a time if needed after each test)?

ETA: Please give her a little more time between testing....like 20 or closer to 30 mins after she eats assuming you test her then immediately give her a tsp of gravy. It does take close to 30 mins for alot of cats to show the carb effect.
Thank you!!! You're doing fine!
 
I use a 3 ml syringe, withdraw a little from the karo bottle, and then just push the plunger for a small drop. ...it's probably less than .1ml.

The other thing you can do is a "fingertip" if she'll lick it off your fingers. Just pop open the cap, put your finger over the hole, and turn the bottle upside down to get a good drop on your fingertip. Of course, if she won't lick it off...then you gotta go back to the other.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I am a little stressed right now, so this is not a discussion I'd like to have right now. We can have debates later if I have the energy.
 
Deb: no debate intended....you asked how we did drops and we both gave you our version of how we dole out karo. Informational only and as with everything....ECID.

Do you have the next number now?
 
Marje,

Sorry...didn't for that to sound pissy. When I said I don't know how you guys measure drops...I honestly didn't realize, at that time, that it could be taken as a question. So thanks for the explanation of your technique. Still stressed here...will update shortly.

Deb
 
Apology accepted and thank you....now, moving forward.

I know it is hard to not be stressed. Believe me...Gracie is the queen of low numbers. But you have the tools to control it: testing and food. You are in control. We are here to help you. Pls let me know what will give you the
best help right now.
 
wow...Marilyn does live up to her namesake in the drama department, doesn't she, Deb?

She insists on keeping you on the edge of your seat...

celi
 
Correction on "NO" appetite, it's actually decreased appetite since PMPS...and just generally feels like crap since PMPS.

AMPS:241
2.0u Lantus (0.25 dose decrease from 12/22/11) + 1/2 Can Friskies Pate Salmon
AM+2 = 275

PMPS = 368
2.0 u Lantis + 1/2 Can Friskies Pate Salmon (decreased appetite; had to coax her to eat)
PM+1 = 332
PM+4 = 167
PM+5 = 85
PM+5.25 = 76 + 1/2 Can (=1.5 oz) FF HC Grilled Turkey in Gravy
PM+5.75 = 50 + 0.5 mL Karo
PM+6 = 46
PM+6.25 = 49 + 1/4 Can (= 0.75 oz.)
PM+6.75 = 65
PM+7 = 54
 
Deb....can you please let me know how often you are testing and where you are or if you don't need any further assistance? I'm happy to stay with you as long as is necessary but if you don't need any further help, I won't continue to pester you :-D :-D
 
Marjorie and Gracie said:
Deb....can you please let me know how often you are testing and where you are or if you don't need any further assistance? I'm happy to stay with you as long as is necessary but if you don't need any further help, I won't continue to pester you :-D :-D
Click to expand...

deb's adding the numbers to the bottom of her post...
 
Thanks Celi....we cross posted so I didn't see her latest one with the numbers ;-) :-D

Deb....can you pls try a tsp of LC now and see if she'll come up a bit more and surf for you? Thanks!
 
Thanks for keeping track Celi! Glad to hear your sister's doing better! Hugs.

Marje, you are not pestering me...if you need to go that's fine. I usually give higher carbs than everyone suggests anyway! :-D
 
Deb;

I don't need to go but if I know how long you are going between tests, I can check back in when I expect a number from you. That is a win-win.

I know Marilyn is your kitty and you know her best. But keep in mind that overcarbbing can also add to those ugly, high numbers. I am not able to give Gracie gravy or HC food at all. Karo...fine and I add it to her LC food when I need to bring her up. If I give her HC and/or gravy....her bounce is personified. That might not apply to Marilyn but I have seen it in quite a few kitties.

Marilyn has earned a .25u reduction with her venture into the 40s. If she shoots really high tonight or in the morning, you can choose to shoot through the bounce at AMPS with her current dose and take the reduction tomorrow night.
Just be aware that sometimes shooting through the bounce can bring numbers back down. The purpose of shooting through is the hope that they won't go quite so high. It's your choice if she goes high whether to shoot the old dose in
the morning or take the reduction in the morning.
 
Marje, check back whenever you’re able, and only if you’re able. I’m testing a lot, so don’t conform you schedule to my testing.

AMPS:241
2.0u Lantus (0.25 dose decrease from 12/22/11) + 1/2 Can Friskies Pate Salmon
AM+2 = 275

PMPS = 368
2.0 u Lantis + 1/2 Can Friskies Pate Salmon (decreased appetite; had to coax her to eat)
PM+1 = 332
PM+4 = 167
PM+5 = 85
PM+5.25 = 76 + 1/2 Can (=1.5 oz) FF HC Grilled Turkey in Gravy
PM+5.75 = 50 + 0.5 mL Karo
PM+6 = 46
PM+6.25 = 49 + 1/4 Can (= 0.75 oz.)
PM+6.75 = 65
PM+7 = 54
PM+7.25 = 74
PM+7.5 = 65
 
Deb...your call....but are you sure you want to test every 15 minutes? Are you feeding at those times, too?

I'll check back in just a bit. I've got to get some dinner......I'm not a happy person when I'm hungry :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Marje
Looks like she's only fed twice, and not since +6.25, so kitty should still have room in her tummy if any more boosts are needed.

Now go enjoy your dinner. I'll watch.

Carl
 
Marje & Carl: Thanks for having my back. Right now she looks pretty stable...however, she could always make a liar out of me. It seems that's the main goal around my house. We shall see. Marje, enjoy your dinner.

AMPS:241
2.0u Lantus (0.25 dose decrease from 12/22/11) + 1/2 Can Friskies Pate Salmon
AM+2 = 275

PMPS = 368
2.0 u Lantis + 1/2 Can Friskies Pate Salmon (decreased appetite; had to coax her to eat)
PM+1 = 332
PM+4 = 167
PM+5 = 85
PM+5.25 = 76 + 1/2 Can ( =1.5 oz) FF HC Grilled Turkey in Gravy
PM+5.75 = 50 + 0.5 mL Karo
PM+6 = 46
PM+6.25 = 49 + 1/4 Can ( = 0.75 oz.) FF HC Grilled Turkey in Gravy
PM+6.75 = 65
PM+7 = 54
PM+7.25 = 74
PM+7.5 = 65
PM+7.75 = 77
PM+8 = 87
 
Good job! Looks like she's okay.
Congrats on the dose reduction.
Isn't this group the greatest??? You would never get this kind of help from a vet.
This is exactly how both me and my mom got our cats OTJ - Lantus insulin and the loving help from Lantus Land!
 
Hey Deb:

Just checking back in.....glad to see all has settled down. I would be sure and get a +9 and make sure she is still headed up. From there, you can decide where you want to go with it.

I hope you get some rest. Perhaps tomorrow when this is behind you, we can discuss food management of the curve. It's an important topic and one we all need to learn about.

You did great tonight!!! Hope you get some rest in there somewhere.
 
Thanks Tracy!

Marje: Thanks for everything...hope you get some rest too!

AMPS:241
2.0u Lantus (0.25 dose decrease from 12/22/11) + 1/2 Can Friskies Pate Salmon
AM+2 = 275

PMPS = 368
2.0 u Lantis + 1/2 Can Friskies Pate Salmon (decreased appetite; had to coax her to eat)
PM+1 = 332
PM+4 = 167
PM+5 = 85
PM+5.25 = 76 + 1/2 Can ( =1.5 oz) FF HC Grilled Turkey in Gravy
PM+5.75 = 50 + 0.5 mL Karo
PM+6 = 46
PM+6.25 = 49 + 1/4 Can ( = 0.75 oz.) FF HC Grilled Turkey in Gravy
PM+6.75 = 65
PM+7 = 54
PM+7.25 = 74
PM+7.5 = 65
PM+7.75 = 77
PM+8 = 87
PM+9 = 128
 
Hey Deb
just about time for a test if you're planning on a +10. But with the last number she's probably past the "crisis"...
carl
 
Hey Carl,

Oh my gosh...thank you so much for still being here. I hope I'm not keeping you up...or worrying you. Here's the latest run-down:

AMPS:241
2.0u Lantus (0.25 dose decrease from 12/22/11) + 1/2 Can Friskies Pate Salmon
AM+2 = 275

PMPS = 368
2.0 u Lantis + 1/2 Can Friskies Pate Salmon (decreased appetite; had to coax her to eat)
PM+1 = 332
PM+4 = 167
PM+5 = 85
PM+5.25 = 76 + 1/2 Can ( =1.5 oz) FF HC Grilled Turkey in Gravy
PM+5.75 = 50 + 0.5 mL Karo
PM+6 = 46
PM+6.25 = 49 + 1/4 Can ( = 0.75 oz.) FF HC Grilled Turkey in Gravy
PM+6.75 = 65
PM+7 = 54
PM+7.25 = 74
PM+7.5 = 65
PM+7.75 = 77
PM+8 = 87
PM+9 = 128
PM+10 = 132
 
Hi Marje:

Thanks so much for everything...wrap presents...enjoy your family...and have a very Merry Christmas!

Thanks again,

Deb
 
Deb:

Just wanted to weigh in really quick as it is late here and I'm headed to bed soon as I was up with Gracie last night and Mike is gone. I'm not sure who all will be up in another two hours.

Right now, she's at a nice number. The lowest you have ever shot is 151 and you shot 1u. You should go ahead and reduce her dose by the .25u for her a.m. shot. If she isn't above 150, I'd suggest that you stall without feeding (if you can) and, if at all possible, check her every 20 mins so you can catch her on the rise. Typically if we stall, we shoot the full dose as stalling acts as a reduction. But it's your call. If you stall and you still don't feel comfortable shooting a full dose if she comes up, then you can shoot a BCS but be prepared for her to go up. If you stall and shoot the full dose, the shed action might have her staying low again in the a.m. cycle.

If you will be there, are not too tired to monitor, etc., then that's great. But if this PM cycle has kept you up and worn you out, then stall and shoot less or if she doesn't rise, skip. It all has to be what you are comfortable with. There is a link to Dealing with Low Preshots in my signature block if you need it.

I'm going to go feed Gracie her last meal and will brb to see if you have any questions before I hit the sack. I know you must be exhausted. Sometimes we just have to call "uncle" and get some rest :-D
 
Marje:

Thanks for all of the helpful suggestions. Geez, I'm so sorry...I didn't know you had lost sleep last night. I hope Gracie is okay. Again, thank you for caring for "mine", when you're also caring for "yours"...and now YOU get some sleep.

Deb
 
Deb:

It's absolutely no problem....that's why we are all here...to help each other. Gracie was fine...just coasting in low blues and so I was checking her every couple hours as she likes to throw in a curve ball every once in a while :-D (like a 41 at +2 this morning). All is good.

Ok...hang in there and try to snooze a bit. I know you'll do great. Ni ni.
 
Deb
great job last night, there's never a dull moment with Marilyn!

Marje, I was just looking back at all the good advice about what to do going forward and realized once again I don't quite get some of the lingo... For future reference, what is "BCS" short for?
Thanks for all the help too!

Merry Christmas everyone!

Carl
 
Lyresa,
thank you!
Well that's not as bad as when I happened to interupt two ladies to ask what they meant when discussing "BOS"! THAT was a bit awkward....
Carl
 
carlinsc said:
Lyresa,
thank you!
Well that's not as bad as when I happened to interupt two ladies to ask what they meant when discussing "BOS"! THAT was a bit awkward....
Carl
Click to expand...

I read that one....and read your rather embarrassed reply.... :lol: Made me laugh....
 
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