1/7 Maggie AMPS 174; PMPS 217; +3 164

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=60220

Thanks everyone for all your help and support yesterday regarding questions on Maggie's Phosphorus values and glucose in the blood, especially Linda and Bear Man for all her helpful info yesterday in my condo. Thanks to Georgia, Marje, Michelle, Anne & Zener, as I fell asleep and missed your posts. Thanks Georgia and Marje on where to buy the binders. I now have the labs in hand and can post the actual values. It can all be a bit overwhelming, especially being a worry wort as are we all! Marje yesterday asked what were her Phosphorus values. Here are the Bun, Creatinine and Phosphorus levels, the most concerning! All other bw was normal.

1/06/12

BUN 47 (Range: 14-36 mg/dl)
47 (three months ago)

Creatinine 2.8 (Range: 0.6-2.4 mg/dl)
2.5 (three months ago)

*Phosphorus 4.9 Range: 2.4-8.2 mg/dl)
4.1 (three months ago)

Glucose-Strip 3+ (on Urinalysis/glucose in urine)

*Even though she is still within range, the Vet said they like to start early on treatment for the renal deficiency.

Re: 1/7 Maggie AMPS 174; +3 174 Actual Phosphorus Levels

Morning Ann! I so agree on Linda's info yesterday - such a wealth of Knowledge there. Maggie is off to a decent start today - a nice steady blue. Well done Maggie!

Have a great day today. I hope you can get a walk in.

Re: 1/7 Maggie AMPS 174; +3 174 Actual Phosphorus Levels

Marjorie posted the dosing info on aluminum hydroxide phosphorus binders yesterday - 25 mg/lb divided and given with food 2 - 3 times per day. Your initial goal could be to get the phosphorus below 4.5 for IRIS stage 2 kidney disease or perhaps ultimately even under 4.0.

If you ever have to give another oral medication, it could be important to space the oral meds away from the binder by more than two hours.

Again, I would encourage you to read Tanya's page on phosphorus. The website also has food lists with the phosphorus levels listed. I know Maggie is happy on what she is eating now. Note that Tanya's food list shows NVI Chicken at 1.23% phosphorus. Foods under 1% are ideal. (Note Tanya's website and Janet/Binky's website present phosphorus content in different formats). Having said that, the most important thing is for a CRF cat to eat. Your phosphorus levels are still quite low, and you are starting a binder early, so you may have no problem keeping that phosphorus level down, while keeping Maggie on the food that she will happily eat.

http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm

Re: 1/7 Maggie AMPS 174; +3 174 Actual Phosphorus Levels

Hey Ann & Maggie--Seems like many of us are having these kind of problems, as our kitties get older.
As long as we are taking care of them, early detection & intervention is what helps!!
Know that Maggie will be fine with a great bean like you--You always have our Love & support--
There is a world of info here in LL & just about everything needed to help care for our FD kitties-
Sending Hugs & Love & Hope that Maggie will be good as new very shortly--after all she has you!

Re: 1/7 Maggie AMPS 174; +3 174 Actual Phosphorus Levels

Again, I would encourage you to read Tanya's page on phosphorus. The website also has food lists with the phosphorus levels listed. I know Maggie is happy on what she is eating now. Note that Tanya's food list shows NVI Chicken at 1.23% phosphorus. Foods under 1% are ideal. (Note Tanya's website and Janet/Binky's website present phosphorus content in different formats). Having said that, the most important thing is for a CRF cat to eat. Your phosphorus levels are still quite low, and you are starting a binder early, so you may have no problem keeping that phosphorus level down, while keeping Maggie on the food that she will happily eat.

Click to expand...

l

Hi Linda, thanks so much again for the valuable information. You answered one question I had about the 25 mg/dl binder and how to divide it up with her daily food, so great to know. Yes, you're so right. I am going to start studying Tanya's website daily, as there's so much to take in there on the CRD. I will start looking into some new foods to add with lower phosphorus, so sorry Maggie, as she loves the NV Instinct chicken. I can always give her a little as a treat now and then. There's a Yahoo renal group message board that Marje gave me a link to that I am going to join. Tanya's site also mentions a message board, and it may be one and the same. Thanks so much again, Linda.

Re: 1/7 Maggie AMPS 174; +3 174 Actual Phosphorus Levels

I can't comment on any of these issues, but it is great to see the wealth of knowledge members are always able to provide. Good luck on treating at this early stage, hopefully preventing full-blown problems.

Re: 1/7 Maggie AMPS 174; +3 174; +5 133 Phosphorus Levels

+5 133

Maggie decided on a later Nadir todat!

Hi Michelle, I couldn't agree more on the wealth of info there from Linda and BearMan. Yes, Maggie's doing good today on her cycle. For a minute there I thought I did a fur shot with the +3 remaining the same, but she came down nicely,

Hi Roni, thanks so much for your vote of confidence in me as Maggie's Bean and your kind words and support. It does seem like a lot of our kitties are in this stage of their life.

Linda & Weezer, it is amazing with the knowledge members are always able to provide here for us. I am so grateful

Re: 1/7 Maggie AMPS 174; +3 174; +5 133; +9 199 ATrak

Hi Ann. I'm glad to see Maggie back in blue. I had to go back to your condo yesterday to read all the new info.

Tess had very similar values on her last blood tests in October. She is even a little higher in Phos than Maggie, but we decided to try lower phosphorus foods first. Our vet did mention that higher phos foods fed recently could effect the numbers and after looking at the lists, I saw that FF, Sophistacat and ProPlan were all pretty high. i had been easing up and letting her have them lately. So off to scour the lists again. We will see if this has helped at her next test. Paws crossed.

Jill had posted a list she worked up and I went from there. I made a SS on my computer and I just up loaded it to Tess's SS as another tab. Click on our SS, then on the tab that says "LC/low Phos" I added in the Phos % from Tanya's list too. I'm not sure just how that is calculated though. I don't have Nature's Variety on it either. Where did you get the .31% number? On Tanya's list it is 1.23% If you want I can look it up and add it.

One food that looks really good is Wysong Gourmet chicken. Unfortunately I can't find it anywhere around here. I don't want to order a case considering how picky an eater Tess is. You live in a larger metro area and may be able to find it. I have heard that a lot of cats don't like it though.

One thing on the fructosamine test. Does your meter keep an average? That satisfies my vet. I can get 7 day, 14 day, 30 day, 60 day and 90 day averages.

Re: 1/7 Maggie AMPS 174; +3 174; +5 133; +9 199 ATrak

Wow...what a wealth of information!

There is one other value that frankly...I am shocked your vet did not bring up.

HMYAL- How much you are loved:
on a range of 1-100
your values are Elebenty thousand five hundred!!!!

:YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

Re: 1/7 Maggie AMPS 174; +3 174; +5 133; +9 199 ATrak

Jill had posted a list she worked up and I went from there. I made a SS on my computer and I just up loaded it to Tess's SS as another tab. Click on our SS, then on the tab that says "LC/low Phos" I added in the Phos % from Tanya's list too. I'm not sure just how that is calculated though. I don't have Nature's Variety on it either. Where did you get the .31% number? On Tanya's list it is 1.23% If you want I can look it up and add it.

Click to expand...

Hi Ann, I do remember at Tess's last bw her phosphorus values were on the high side. Thanks so much for compiling the list of lower phosphorus foods from Tanya's website. I sure will check it out. I got the phosphorus value on the Instinct from a list that I believe Christie & Willie sent me. That's a bummer with the FF and sophisticat being too high in Phosphorus. I hope this link works:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...E5IOEt2MmtueEVEMmx0YVNTWW1zeHc&hl=en_US#gid=0


I will be interested in seeing how much tess's phosphorus values have changed since switching to the lower phosphorus. The NV Instinct, unfortunately is too high, so I'll back to the pet stores. I bet they have missed since I started ordering Instinct online. That's okay on the Instinct %, I'm sure that's correct from Tanya.
I will have to check and see if any of the pet stores carry the Wysong Gourmet chicken. We have a PetPeople store here that carries only the higher quality foods, so I'm thinking they may have it.l I thought I read that Friskies Special Diet turkey & giblets was on Jill's list, as this is one Mags liked.

The Vet wanted the fructosamine test since Maggie had glucose in her urine. It was High at +3. My alpha trak meter is able to give me 14 day averages which I send off to the Vet weekly. I'm sure I've been missing some of her highs on my spot checks. Marje has suggested doing a glucose urine check when she gets a high to see if this is when she develops glucose in her urine. I'll have the fructosamine results this Monday. Thanks much Ann for all this info. So much to learn now with another phase, and I'm grateful for everyone's help and support.

Re: 1/7 Maggie AMPS 174; +3 174; +5 133; +9 199 ATrak

There is one other value that frankly...I am shocked your vet did not bring up.

HMYAL- How much you are loved:
on a range of 1-100
your values are Elebenty thousand five hundred!!!!

Click to expand...

Celi, hugs, you are so sweet, what a nice thing to say! Was that for Maggie or me!

Re: 1/7 Maggie AMPS 174; +3 174; +5 133; +9 199 ATrak

ABSOLUTELY for you both!!!!

Re: 1/7 Maggie AMPS 174; +3 174; +5 133; +9 199; PMPS 217

Hi Ann:

Just remember that when she goes higher, you won't see the glucose in her urine immediately. It will be delayed just like ketones. But, for example, if she goes to 250 and then comes down but you test her a couple hours later and find glucose, it was probably due to the 250 as long as you know she did not go higher at night or while you were gone.....which is tough to figure out sometimes...esp at night.

Also...Tanya's group and the Yahoo CRF group are different. I belong to the Yahoo CRF group...very active site...lots of good info and knowledgable people.

Have a great eveing!!

Re: 1/7 Maggie AMPS 174; +3 174; +5 133; +9 199; PMPS 217

Just remember that when she goes higher, you won't see the glucose in her urine immediately. It will be delayed just like ketones. But, for example, if she goes to 250 and then comes down but you test her a couple hours later and find glucose, it was probably due to the 250 as long as you know she did not go higher at night or while you were gone.....which is tough to figure out sometimes...esp at night.

Click to expand...

Thanks Marje on that information for the testing, very good information. Ah, yes night time is usually when she does the giant pee clumps, too. Good thing I don't sleep long at one time.
Thanks also for the info that it's two different groups. I am registered on the Yahoo CRF and read some posts but not yet posted.

Hi Ann and Maggie,
Wow, is this ever an informative condo! You have gotten some terrific tips and excellent advice. (Stu had CRF, among other things, but everything had progressed too far by the time we were aware of it). You are right on top of it all and I'm sure you will be able to find the right foods, binders, etc. to keep Maggie in good health. No more FF T&G???

Wishing you a fine evening,

Scritches to Maggie,

Ella & Rusty