4/14 Rusty AMPS 259, +5.5 264, PMP 225, +4.5 111

yesterday: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=68619

Good Saturday Morning, Everyone,

Rusty had a good night. He ate all of his nighttime food, but I'm not sure when. This morning we had a good test (but another yellow number), a good shot (I think: he pulled away but I think I got all the Lev. in), and breakfast. He got Wellness Turkey for breakfast and ate some but also left some in his dish. I put FF T&G in another little bowl and he ate it all. So I mixed some more of it in with the Wellness and hopefully he will eat it over the course of the morning. I decided not to start with Bupe this morning because we will be out most of the day at the Met in HD theater telecast of Verdi's "La Traviata". I really want to be around to monitor Rusty when I try out the Bupe. (Also, I'm scared to stick that big needle into his mouth; I'm afraid it might go into tissue if he struggles--and he will struggle!)

We went outside briefly to check on the chipmunk's doorways and now Rusty is sitting on top of the radiator, surveying the garden scene.

Thanks again to everyone for visiting us yesterday and giving such good advice. I really do have the Bupe dose figured out. (I'm just afraid to administer it!)

Wishing you all a good day. Continued thoughts of comfort for Carolyn and Tena. Sending lots of healing vines to Attie, DC, J.D., Rocket, Zener, and all kitties not feeling their best today. Rusty appreciates the healing vines that are being sent his way.

Ella & Rusty

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259

Lots of hugs for the Handsome Rusty. I hope the pancreatitis eases soon and he feels strong and healthy.

On the buprenex syringe... there is a needle tip?
When I had it for BigMac to place in his cheek, the syringe did not have a needle on it.
I will go look at my extras and see if maybe they cut the needle off or it was a different type of syringe.

I'd be worried too if there was a needle. BigMac didn't like it when I squirted it in the side of his mouth.
I was lucky to get the dose close to the gums much less in the cheek pocket. I did this after his dental.

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259

Um.....

Can you please check with your vet? You can inject the bupe subcutaneously (just like insulin) which may be why you have a syringe with a needle. Alternatively, bupe can be given orally into the cheek pocket or under the tongue. In the latter case, you don't use the needle.

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259

Ya.......you should not be sticking a needle into Rusty's mouth! :shock:

As Sienne and Carolyn mentioned, if there is a needle than it is mean to be injected like insulin.

I would call your vet, ask for the exact dose you are suppose to give and HOW to give it.

If you ever need it in the future, I would also ask for pre filled syringes for each dose. This way you are not having to worry about pushing the plunger too hard (whether that be via subq or in his mouth).

Happy caturday!!! :mrgreen:

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259

Carolyn --

My vet has given me a bottle with bupe on a couple of occasions. Other times, I've gotten pre-filled syringes.

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259

Sienne and Gabby said:

Carolyn --

My vet has given me a bottle with bupe on a couple of occasions. Other times, I've gotten pre-filled syringes.

Click to expand...

That is how I was given it, too. I think it is rare for a vet to do that. The way I am envisioning the bupe given to Ella (correct me if Im wrong) is 2ml in one syringe w/a needle on the end. The 2ml is not the total amount she is to give in one sitting. She is suppose to give X amount (.2ml?) from that syringe at each sitting. I just think it can make it tricky if a vet puts multiple doses in one syringe. Too easy to make a mistake with how much you should give and/or how much you actually give (pushing the plunger too far on accident). Best to give pre filled syringes for each dose, or a bottle and syringes for you to draw up the dose.

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259

Ella, for Maggie's last dental, I also had a bottle with a syringe and just squirted the drops on the side of his cheek.
Sending more healing vines for Rusty to feel better and also lots of scritches.
Enjoy the day; it sounds just like what you need.

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259

Hi again,
The vet's instructions say "orally". I just looked at one of the syringes (a Monoject 1.0 ml). The needle is more than 1/2 inch long and looks mean, but the whole needle assembly is detachable. I think you only use it to draw the dose. So I will just detach the needle and hope that the Bupe stays in the syringe until I get it into Rusty's mouth! The vial of Bupe is separate from the syringes.

Thanks, guys,

Ella

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259

ok, that clears it up if the vial of bupe is separate! :mrgreen:
Whichever way is easiest to draw it up (needle or no needle) is fine.
But cover and DETACH the needle before it goes anywhere near his mouth!
Im surprised they did not give you a few syringes.
Maybe Linda, or others would feel comfortable commenting on the sterile nature (or lack of), by using the same syringe and needle over and over. It may not be an issue. I would wash out the syringe after administering it, and keep the cap on the needle.

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259

Good Morning Ella. Did the doc tell you to keep the bupe in the dark? They told me it was very important.
I hope it goes well with Rusty, and he doesn't need much pain control.

Enjoy the opera today.

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259

Hi Ella,

You really need clarification from the vet on how to give this. I don't think that the vet's staff gave you thorough instructions. Buprenorpine can be given trans mucosally in the cheek pouch or via sub Q injection. However, you have to be very sure that if you are going to inject it, the Bupe is in the original vial and is sterile. If the vet has transferred it into another container with the idea that it will be given in the mouth, then it is no longer sterile and not suitable for sub Q injection. Some vets also doctor up the oral version with flavourings, which doesn't make much sense, as Bupe is tasteless.

It does sound to me like you have been given a bottle of Bupe, and that, as you say, you are being directed to draw up the dose, then remove the needle, and syringe the contents of the syringe into the cheek pouch. Do not ever put the needle in Rusty's mouth! I would not give it sub Q unless you confirm with the vet that it is safe to do so. I think that the way you have been given the Bupe is actually good - probably more economical then pre filled syringes, and you have the option of drawing up the dose that you want.

I think it is safe for you to proceed with the plan of drawing the Bupe from the vial, removing the needle, and squirting the contents into the mouth. Aim for the cheek pocket. If he swallows any, it won't hurt him, but the drug which is swallowed will not be effective.

Enjoy your opera outing! And good luck with the Bupe!

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259

carolynandlatte said:

Im surprised they did not give you a few syringes.
Maybe Linda, or others would feel comfortable commenting on the sterile nature (or lack of), by using the same syringe and needle over and over. It may not be an issue. I would wash out the syringe after administering it, and keep the cap on the needle.

Click to expand...

They gave you more than one syringe, right? I would try to maintain the sterility of the Bupe (assuming it is sterile to start with) by only sticking the needle into it once, trying to avoid squirting any excess back into the bottle, and by discarding the needle and syringe after one use. This is less critical if you are going to give the entire contents by mouth, but still I would like to try and keep the contents as clean as possible. You may have some left over from this event, and if it is in good condition you can use it if he flares up again.

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259

Morning - wow on the bupe. I agree, FWIW, with all that has been said re: the bupe. When gave this to BJ, it was oral, in a syringe, pre-measured by the vet (I had been given several of these) - and no needle. It is very easy to administer this way, into the cheek pocket. Even BJ, as sick as she was, and has never tolerated anyone messing with her mouth, accepted this procedure. I wish you luck. You've gotten great advice here.

Enjoy the MET today - sounds fabulous!

and Rusty: think blue!

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259

Sending hugs to you all today and good wishes for a nice time at the Opera Ella....
Hope Rusty will feel better real soon....glad you have all this wonderful advice and feedback on the Bupe and everything... :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259

Hi again,
The vial might be one that has been filled at the vet's, since "Buprenex .3mg/ml" is written by hand on the label. It is a "BD Vacutainer and says it is sterile. It contains 6. ml. She gave me two syringes and the vet tech said I could wash them out and reuse, if necessary, since it was not going to be injected. I called this morning for clarification and the vet tech said to draw out the dose and then detach the needle. So that's what I will do. But not until we get back from the opera and not unless I think he needs it!

Thanks again to you all!

Ella

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259

Ella, that makes sense that you would use a needle to draw the dose, then administer without the needle. It should work well. Good luck and wishing Rusty a quick recovery.
Enjoy the opera! John

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259

Wow is this all bizarre!!!

For my kitties that just needed bupe for a short time, like after dental surgery, my vet drew up several syringes (monojects) without the needles but with "plugs" in the end where the needle goes and the doses were pre-measured so all I had to do was take off the cap, put the syringe next to the mucosa, and slowly push in a little at a time. Then I threw away the syringe.

With Gus, because he gets it bid, it's in a dark bottle...not a vial. The bottle has a lid on it that the end of a small (1ml) syringe (no needle) fits into. So I just draw up his .1ml dose, put it on his gums, and then rinse the syringe out for reuse since I'm not ever injecting from that bottle.

Seems like they have made it more complicated than it needs to be.....

I hope you enjoy the Met showing and that Rusty feels better. Tobey is coming with more KTSS!! And he thanks you for his special birthday wishes and cimmamum!

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259, +5.5 264, PMP 225

Hi again, everyone,

The opera ("La Traviata") was terrific: fascinating production and excellent singing and acting. When we got home around 5 P.M. Rusty was very happy to see us and didn't seem under the weather at all, so I didn't give him any Bupe. We spent about 1/2 hour outdoors. When I put out his Wellness Turkey dinner he sniffed at it and walked away. So I put out FF T&G instead and he came back and gobbled it up. I guess I'll be feeding mainly FF T&G until he has recovered, because although it tends to raise his bgs, he needs to eat. Tomorrow I'll go back to measuring calories and weighing his food. I don't think he's been getting enough, but he has been eating.

Then there's the question of raising his Lev. dose to compensate for the pancreatitis and for the higher carb food (FF T&G). I think we're still in a bounce (and then the shot this morning may have been partial fur, since Rusty pulled away while I was shooting), so I'm not going to raise his dose now, but I think I will raise it in a few days if it doesn't come down by itself.

Thank you all again for all your help today with the Bupe question.

Off now to visit condos (finally!)

Ella & Rusty

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259, +5.5 264, PMP 225

Sending love, huggies and healing your way!

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259, +5.5 264, PMP 225

Very interesting discussion on the bupe - educational condo of the day award I think! Glad that Rusty doesn't seem to be needing it so far and very glad you don't have to stick the needle in his mouth :shock: I would think that the vet needs to be way more careful with instructions as clients that don't have the board to ask may do just that.

Dosecrease threat has been made Rusty, time for Mr P to heal up and get you back to the lagoon, or else...

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259, +5.5 264, PMP 225

Big Beautiful Healing Vines to our Good Rusty Boy!! You got the bupe question cleared up.. Moonie & Copper both had bupe with good results. Just for a few days too.
Dont be afraid to use if necessary, cats mask their pain, so maybe if he seems uncomfy....

Feed him what he likes right now, & what he will eat, glad he has a good appetite..
Hope he has a swift recovery. You know we love you all & worry about you, so Rusty get well soon!
Have a good evening & tomorrow--Hugs & Love from us!

Re: 4/14 Rusty AMPS 259, +5.5 264, PMP 225

"mucosa" - I had to look it up. :smile: I'm glad Rusty is feeling a little better. He knows he can work you for the better foods right now. :lol: :lol:
Liz

I'm glad to see Rusty is doing a little better. I got on here late and read some of this…I have no experience... so I'll just send healing vines to Rusty.

Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) said:

Tomorrow I'm going to make the high-protein salad you posted the other day for our monthly potluck. I'm going to call it
Serryn Salad. No one will know what "Serryn" is!!

Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: :lol: They're going to be picking through that salad looking for that special ingredient!