5/22 Simon PMPS 151 +4 117

The pink continues. I think Simon's arthritis is bothering him and that may be why he is defectating on the carpet downstairs instead of going upstairs to the lb. I ran out of Cosuquin and have been going back and forth about going the Adequan route instead. Cosuquin seems to work ok but it tends to make Simon's blood sugar go higher. Today, Simon is moving very slowly up and down the stairs and I think the arthritis is bothering him. Before I go and get more Cosuquin today, I thought I would ask y'all about Adequan. FYI: Simon hates the Cosuquin and Dasuquin sprinkled on his food and doesn't eat it all. He also is a terrible cat to pill. It is a huge fight to get him to take anything by mouth.

Questions:
Does it work better than Cosuquin/Dasuquin?
Are there any side effects that you have noticed?
How often do you get the injections?
Expense?

Thanks for your iniput!

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Re: 5/22 Simon AMPS 320 Adequan questions

Hi Georgia, sorry to hear Simon is hurting, and you feel it may be the cause of the behavior of pooping on the carpet. Hope you get answers on those two meds. It will help draw attention to your condo if you add the ? mark emoticon in your subject line, even though you have Questions added in your subject line.
Sending healing and feel better vines to your sweet Simon. Hugs to you and Simon.

Re: 5/22 Simon AMPS 320 Adequan questions

Hi Georgia - You could be right about the pooping...arthritis tends cause constipation, because they can't properly squat.

My Mario has been on Adequan for almost a year now...many people have heard me say it before: it's been a miracle for him. He was on Cosequin before he started Adequan; there is absolutely no comparison at all. The Cosequan did next to nothing for him; with the Adequan, he's back to running and playing. His posture has improved significantly, he doesn't have the weird pain episodes he used to have, he doesn't bunny hop down the stairs anymore. He's not 100% arthritis-free, but I can't tell you what a huge difference it has made for him.

He's not diabetic, so I can't speak about how it affects BG, although I know Patty has said Champ's BG seems unaffected by the Adequan.

I haven't noticed any side effects with Mario, and he is on a few other meds (transdermal tapazole and BP meds).

There's a "loading dose protocol" to follow. For him, we did injections twice a week for 4 weeks; then once week for 4 weeks; then every other week for 4 weeks, then we were supposed to go to once a month. However, once a month wasn't often enough; I could tell he needed a boost at about 3 weeks. So we went to once a week for 3 weeks indefinitely, although just this past round, we were able to stretch it out to 4 weeks. At this point, I dose based on his symptoms, but I wouldn't go longer than 4 weeks between injections.

One biggie: Adequan was originally given as an intramuscular injections. THIS IS NOT NECESSARY!!! It can be given as a subQ injection, and it works just as well. We give it to Mario SubQ, so I can truly attest to that. Apparently, though, the veterinary circuit as not caught up with this, and many still think it can only be given IM, which - of course - scares most owners.

The cheapest place I've found for Adequan is Drs Foster and Smith: one vial of the equine is something like $49, and shipping is free. You do need a script, though.

Dose is based on weight. I don't remember the formula, but Mario is 13lbs, and he gets the equivalent of 30 units. We do use a bigger needle, though, so the juice goes in more quickly. Like I said, he's been on it for nearly a year, and we just started our third vial, so it lasts quite a while!

I hope this helps. I know ECID, and - just as an example - Rocket did have a skin reaction do Adequan. But for Mario, it has turned his fuzzy little world around.

Have a great day...and come on down, Simon!

Re: 5/22 Simon AMPS 320 Adequan questions

I haven't used it so I can't speak from experience. Adequan is just glucosamine whereas Cosequin is glucosamin and chondroiten.

There shouldn't be anything in Cosequin that raises BG. I'm not sure why it's effecting Simon's BG.

Re: 5/22 Simon AMPS 320 Adequan questions

Hi guys .. I'm happy to see Amy was able to help answer your questions .. but I am sorry to read that simon has been having a few rough day's lately .. I hope whatever med route you go helps ease his pain .. have a great day guys!

Re: 5/22 Simon AMPS 320 Adequan questions

Sienne and Gabby said:

Adequan is just glucosamine whereas Cosequin is glucosamin and chondroiten.

Click to expand...

I have used Adequan in two of my cats (not diabetics) and I have seen good results. I agree with what Amy said about using a loading dose protocol - more frequent shots to start with, and then a systematic tapering down. Many vets prefer to give the shots IM, but many others say that giving it sub Q works (that is the way I have used it). I have not seen any side effects in my cats. It should not be used in cats with known bleeding disorders.

I can't wade too far into the chemistry, but I don't totally agree with what Sienne said about Adequan being just glucosamine. I don't think that Adequan and glucosamine are the same substance, although both are types of chondroprotective agents (along with chondroitin sulfate and others). Adequan is a PSGAG (polysulfated glycosaminoglycan).

If you are not happy with the way the oral supplements are working, it is probably worth trying the Adequan injections.

Re: 5/22 Simon AMPS 320 +6 202 Adequan questions

I just ran home from work to feed Simon and test him. Much better at the +6.

Y'all thank you so, so much for your comments!

Ann, thanks for suggesting about the question icon. I kind of forgot about it

Amy, Wow, what alot of great information! I'm so glad to hear that Mario has really been helped by the Adequan and you haven't really noticed any side effects. Of course, like you said about most vets, my vet says that it needs to be done IM when I have asked him about it before. I am expecting a call back from him this afternoon to discuss Adequan with him and will ask him about the subq (or I guess I should tell him about it!). $49.00 is so much cheaper than paying the $129.00 that the vet charges for the series. The receptionist told me that typically they start the cat off with 2x/week and the series is 6 so after 3 weeks I guess I would have to pay for another series. Then it may go down to as little as 1x/month, unless Simon is like Mario and needs a little more. I guess the vet is in agreement with y'all about how to do the series -- start with more and wean down to 1x/month or more as needed. It would be so much cheaper if I could buy it myself and do the subq.

Linda, thanks for all your info, too. it is great to know that there are other cats on Adequan and beans that can give great advice.
Sienne, I'll ask the vet about what makes up Adequan. When I talked to him awhile ago, I think he said that it is very different from Cosequin. As far as raising his bg, Simon's bg seems to rise at any type of med that I give him, even though it shouldn't. He has some nervous tummy issues and is getting pepcid 2x/day so maybe his tummy issues are causing the problem?

Devon, thanks for stopping by and being the LL cheerleader!

Re: 5/22 Simon AMPS 320 +6 202 Adequan questions

Hi Georgia!! Champ is doing great on the Adequan. I'm lucky in that my vet keeps himself up-to-date on all things related to kitties. He specifically told me that Adequan is just as effective subcu as intramuscular and since I was already a pro at giving Champ shots, he wanted me to give Champ his Adequan shots. The formula for dose is 2 mg per 1 pound of weight. Champ is 18 pounds so his dose is 36 mg. Using an insulin syringe (which I use), 1 mg equals 1 unit so he gets 36 units of the Adequan. Because Champ's insulin syringes only go up to 30 units, I ordered insulin syringes that were 30 gauge, 0.5 cc, which hold 50 units and these work great. I started out using 28 gauge syringes because a friend had given me some when Champ was first diagnosed (there were no 1/2 unit markings on them so I couldn't use them). Even with the bigger gauge, Champ did just fine. He never even flinched. Adequan doesn't sting like insulin so it's almost like they don't even know you're back there giving them a shot!! And Amy is correct, the Adequan doesn't affect Champ's numbers. However, it seems to act like a Red Bull energy drink for him. He doesn't nap until a few hours after the shot!!!

Adequan is sold as canine or equine and my vet has told me they are exactly the same. At Drs Foster and Smith, they sell both with the equine being cheaper. Same medicine, but one is cheaper than the other!! Make sure your vet writes the script for equine to save yourself some $$$$ (about $7 per vial). You will want to order the two-vial pack because once the loading series is completed, you'll be almost out of your first vial (depending on your dose).

Good luck!!!

Re: 5/22 Simon AMPS 320 +6 202 Adequan questions

Linda:

There is a biological/biochemical relationship between glycosamionglycans (GAGs) and glucosamine. This link is a bit technical but it notes the relationship. I'd have to dig more to find additional info. It does sound like Adequan may be a better choice than Cosequin, especially if the latter isn't doing the job.

Re: 5/22 Simon AMPS 320 +6 202 Adequan questions

Hi Georgia,

I am sorry to hear Simon is feeling so bad. I can simply confirm what Amy & Patti have said.....Adequan has been like a miracle for Zoe. She was on Dasequin, but it started to bother her stomach....so we decided to give the adequan a try....and it works beautifully. I did what Amy said, twice a week for 4 weeks, once a week for 4 weeks etc. We are staying with the shot once every 3 weeks....that seems to be the best dose for Zoe. If I notice her having more discomfort, or "bunny hopping" down her stairs, I will push her dose to once evvery 2 weeks. I get mine through our vet and pay $75 for a 10 ml vial; that also includes syringes for the sub-q injections. Whenever I run out of syringes the girls in the office, just give me another packet of them.

I have never noticed any increase in Zoe's bg while she has been on the Adequan. Hope this helps Simon as much as it helps Zoe.

Good Luck with it!

Re: 5/22 Simon AMPS 320 +6 202 Adequan questions

Sienne and Gabby said:

Linda:

There is a biological/biochemical relationship between glycosamionglycans (GAGs) and glucosamine. This link is a bit technical but it notes the relationship. I'd have to dig more to find additional info. It does sound like Adequan may be a better choice than Cosequin, especially if the latter isn't doing the job.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the link, Sienne. My concern was that someone might read that Adequan is just glucosamine and doesn't have as much stuff in it as Cosequin, and think that if their cat did not respond to the oral supplements, there would be no point in trying the Adequan. I think we would agree that some owners and vets have noted good response to Adequan even in cats who did not respond to oral glucosamine. I don't know if it is the formulation, the mode of administration, or the placebo effect, but that is what I found.

An added bonus from the Adequan is that it helps a lot of cats with bladder issues such as cystitis.

Re: 5/22 Simon PMPS 151 Adequan

I am so grateful to everyone for all your advice today.

Patty and Sherry, it is good to hear how much adequan has helped Champ and Zoe, especially since they are also diabetic kitties. I am printing out your information so I can be better informed when I go to Simon's vet. He is a feline only vet so i would have thought he would be more up on the subq injection. What an unbelievable savings it would be for me to be able to do them at home. I just couldn't do it if it was an IM shot. Patty, thanks for the detail on what dosage. Simon weighs 16 pounds so he would get a little less than Champ.

Linda, what a great additional benefit if Adequan helps bladder issues!

Simon is doing better tonight with the dosecrease and his tummy is good.