10/21 Charlie PMBG +12 106 +13 88 +14 63 +15 55 +16 92

Charlie is back on 1 unit after going low the other day on the 1.25

I wish there were syringes where you could more easily find minute differences in dosing. At this moment in time, it seems to me like 1.25 units is too much for Charlie, and 1 unit is too little for her. This morning, we gave her a full 1 unit and we will see how she does with that.

Just looked at our little blood testing machine and Charlie's monthly average is coming out at about 234. Seems that in general, she's not averaging out low enough overall.

I know that averages probably mean nothing in this diabetes game, but just wondering from the experts' opinions:

- Is there anything in Charlie's numbers that is beginning to show any sign of regulation?

Also curious if people have feedback on:

- Treating cat acne. We are using benzoyl peroxide cleaner daily on her chin but it doesn't seem to go away, even with ceramic bowls and frequent changing of food/water dishes.

- Vitamin supplement for diabetic cats. Is there anything we should be giving ChaIrlie to help out her system under all this strain?

Thanks for your feedback, and have a great Sunday. The Amsterdam Marathon is going on today. Think we will go watch a little bit of that and exercise vicariously through others.


Jill

 

Re: Charlie AMPS 373 +4 167

The smallest increment that syringes are available in are half units. You could ask Marje more about using calipers to measure doses. I use the line on the syringe -- depending on the dose, I line up the plunger on the line, in the middle of the line. at the top of the line, etc.

I think Roni's Moonie had issues with chin acne. If I'm not remembering correctly, I'd post a note on Health asking what people have used. I think there's a particular wash that people have used.

Looking at Charlie's SS, there's a definite improvement. You're seeing a lot more blue and green numbers. Not all cats respond on the same timetable. As long as you're systematic with your dosing, you'll be fine. One option to consider is that you could shave the doses when you're reducing.

I'm not a good person to ask about supplements. The only thing I've ever given Gabby was fish oil and that was when she was having some issues with allergy.

 

Re: Charlie AMPS 373 +4 167

I got so frustrated trying to give a consistent dose to Furball that I bought calipers to use. If you need an in between dose it is hard to measure and make sure you're giving the same amount each time. Here is the link to the condo Marje posted about using calipers if you want to think about trying them.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=79851&hilit=+Dosing+with+calipers

 

Re: Charlie AMPS 373 +4 167

I am sitting in my house, looking at my yoga mat (never used) and thinking about my treadmill (been several years since used) and watching the cyclists pass by my house...pretty sure this constitutes exercises today!!!! :lol:

I really like Charlie's +4. Hope she surfs the pretty blues and hope this dose holds for sweet Charlie! I have no advise regarding supplements or acne washes, etc. Wishing you guys a great Sunday/Monday!

 

Charlie AMPS 373 +4 167 PMBG 7:30 PM 106, 8PM 128, shoot?

Not sure what to do since she's quite low. We will stall for a bit. Please advise.

 

Re: Charlie AMPS 373 +4 167 PMBG 7:30 PM 106, 8PM 128, shoot

128 at 8pm. not exactly sure if we should shoot the 1 unit. Agh! Charlie: you love to challenge us, don't you?

 

Charlie PMBG 7:30PM 106, 8PM 128, 8:30P 88 9PM 77 NO SHOT

88 at 8:30 PM. I am really at a loss here. Ugh. What do I do????

 

Charlie PMBG 7:30 PM 106, 8PM 128, 8:30 PM 88, 9PM 77

Recap:

BG at 7:30 PM = 106
Fed the full 50 grams (normal dinner). Waited 30 minutes.
BG at 8PM = 128. Waited 39 minutes.
BG at 8:30 PM = 88.
BG at 9:00 PM = 77.

I don't feel comfortable shooting since I cannot see her BG increasing. Last Sunday I shot at 83 and the entire night was a drama. I am confused here, but still stalling. Can't really stall much longer.

 

Re: Charlie PMBG 7:30 PM 106, 8PM 128, 8:30 PM 88, 9PM 77

Jill

It has to be your call on whether you shoot or not. Personally, I would but I'm also not the one that has to stay up. If you shoot...now that you've stalled...it will act as a reduction and you can feed her to get her going up. However, that has to be your choice and I am not able to stay with you today.

You've built up great data with Charlie. You should be shooting every number above 50 as long as you have supplies and are rested enough to be able to stay up. You know how to handle her low numbers. The more consistent you are with shooting, the better it will be for Charlie...skipped shots, stalls, and reduced doses aren't doing her any favors. Of course, there are times when you need to do one of those things either because you are sick, tired, or have a life (I"m glad you skipped to go to the concert....you needed the break).

When you get a decent number to shoot, like tonight, you see what happens if you stall...she continues to drop. If you shoot when you get the number, then you feed and numbers should come up a bit before she onsets.

If you can find some digital calipers, I think you'll find dosing to be alot more consistent.

I apologize for not being able to stay with you if you shoot but there are other folks around if you get into some low numbers. And if you need to get some sleep for work, then do what you need to do...it's safer for you both. Hugs.

 

Re: Charlie PMBG 7:30 PM 106, 8PM 128, 8:30 88, 9 77, 9:30 6

HI Jill-
Just saw your post and am glad Marje chimed in. I have no advice to give but having shot those low numbers before know how scary it can be. But if you are able to stay up and help Charlie stay safe it seems like it can be very rewarding (IMHO as that is what worked for Fur Ball).

It can be so frustrating not knowing what to do. And, yes, those lower doses are soooooo hard to measure. Hang in there. Charlie has a great mamabean. :YMHUG:

thnking of you both as you make your decision on shooting.

Karen

 

Charlie PMBG 7:30 PM 106, 8PM 128, 8:30 88, 9 77, 9:30 63

I actually have a week off this week. I don't honestly want to be awake all night long, but that's not my biggest issue with shooting. More concerning to me is that each 30 mins when I test, Charlie is going down, not up. It's marginal, but still. I already fed her the entire meal this evening and she only went up temporarily between 7:30 and 8PM.

Her normal shot time is 7.
We have been gradually moving the shot time back as the cat sitter who will come when we go to Denmark will only come at 8:30AM and 8:30PM. So today's stall wouldn't have been the worst thing as far as getting us closer to that. Thing is, now it's 9:45PM. I just tested her again at 9:30 and she was lower again.

I don't want to be inconsistent but I don't know what the right call is, I guess.

 

Re: Charlie PMBG 7:30 PM 106, 8PM 128, 8:30 88, 9 77, 9:30 6

I forgot to answer your other questions.

Gracie gets acne even though we use all glass dishes. In fact, I just had to have her on A/B because she got an infected hair follicle but the acne also got worse. If Charlie's is not too bad, you can do warm compresses on it....I often use epsom salts in the warm water. Just be sure she doesn't get the epsom salts in her mouth. Benzoyl peroxide scrub can be really drying which could make it worse. You might just want to try a vinegar/water solution and see if that helps. I've also used an holistic spray that I put on a cotton ball....it is called Rejuva Spray. I'm sure you cannot get it there but it has witch hazel in it which is good if you can find it.

I don't use vitamin supplements either so no help there. I do give Gracie taurine powder in her food (she loves it) and also 3-4 drops of extra virgin, organic, cold pressed coconut oil.

 

Charlie PMBG 7:30 PM 106, 8PM 128, 8:30 88, 9 77, 9:30 63

Marjorie,

Thank you for chiming in and for giving us some perspective.

I have thought it through with my partner, and we have decided to skip the shot tonight. Charlie has been going down each 30 minutes and we don't want a situation like we had on October 14th. Even though on the 14th Charlie was on 1.5 units and this is what likely caused it, I still find it very very strange that she is this low between 7 - 10pm this evening on the 1 unit. We skipped a shot 2 nights ago so theoretically her lantus shed should be a bit less full.

I'm also noticing that Charlie is a late afternoon dipper. For example, today, her BG at +12 was lower than her BG at +5. Makes me wonder what happened in between that time frame when we took a long walk?

My gut says to wait. We will shoot again tomorrow morning. In the meantime, if anyone has thoughts on what to do with this late cycle dipping kitty, please advise.

 

Re: Charlie PMBG 7:30 PM 106, 8PM 128, 8:30 88, 9 77, 9:30 6

Jill

I totally understand...we all support your decisions.

The thing that is wonderful about her coming down late is you have a fantastic opportunity to take advantage of any overlap of shots. That can really help Charlie stay in normal numbers. I understand why you don't want to shoot tonight. But I wouldn't let the late dips stop me as long as she is above 50 and you have all the supplies, etc....as I discussed before. You have the opportunity to really move her towards healing numbers. The trip down the dosing scale can be exhausting.

 

Charlie PMBG 7:30 106 8:00 128 8:30 88 9 77 9:30 63 10:30 55

10:30 PM and Charlie's BG is 55.8

We didn't shoot and it's even lower. Weird.

 

Re: Charlie PMBG 7:30 106 8:00 128 8:30 88 9 77 9:30 63 10:3

I just got your PM. Sorry I wasn't around.

One thing I can suggest is to not use the actual time. I have no idea what time 8:00 is in relation to your usual shot time. You mentioned that 7:00 is your usual shot time. Then 8:00 is +13. It's much more useful Lantus Land time than the time on the clock.

Given the dropping number, this looks like a good decision.

 

Charlie PMBG +12 106 +13 88 +14 63 +15 55 +16 92

Thanks for the advice. I fixed the subject line to reflect the last few hours properly.

 

Re: Charlie PMBG +12 106 +13 88 +14 63 +15 55 +16 92

Jill --

I want to chime in regarding Marje's comments about shooting lower numbers. Tonight may have been a different situation with dropping numbers and it certainly gave you an opportunity to see what happens when you skip a shot. What we're seeing is that by 4 hours after your usual shot time, Charlie's numbers are on the way up. That's very helpful data. In fact, you saw the same thing on 10/19.

When someone is new to managing their cat's diabetes, we strongly encourage them to get this kind of data and, in fact, refer to it as becoming data ready. Ultimately, if your goal is to get Charlie regulated, you are going to need to start shooting lower numbers. Other than 10/14, the lowest you've shot is 149. I want to encourage you to start thinking about shooting lower numbers. In fact the mantra here is, "Shoot low to stay low." (I do think 10/14 was a situation where you shot a dropping number. We've all done that and it can make for an 'exciting' evening but I wouldn't say that it's a typical scenario).

Perhaps some perspective will help. If you have a low pre-shot, there are two things to consider. First, Lantus onset typically isn't until around +2. You have 2 hours when numbers are usually rising. In addition, you are feeding. Food further raises numbers. Thus, by the time onset begins, you have a cushion. A final consideration is that you don't see the kind of drop when you shoot low as when you get a drop from high numbers. It's entirely possible for a cat to be in the 300s and drop to 50 by nadir. That could be at least a 250 point drop. If you're shooting an 80, you're not going to get that size of a drop.

No one can guarantee that if you shoot low you won't get reduction-worthy results. What I would suggest, though, is that you look at some of the kitties spreadsheets who are on OTJ trials or who have recently gone OTJ. Look at as many spreadsheets as you can when you see someone has shot a low number so you have a sense of how the cycle goes. While every cat is different, looking at the spreadsheets will give you a feel for how cycles can go.