1/13 Michelangelo AMPS 351, +6/232 - Incident last night :(

Previous Condo.

First order of business, he seems to be settling into his 1.5u dose quite well and I've been happy to see blues and greens popping up for more than just a cycle or just a day (unlike previous dose increases/decreases that seem to have only lasted a day at most).

Now, onto what happened yesterday and yet another reason why I wonder if Levemir might do him better. My brother came home last night after being gone up north for the past week. My friend was in a play last night that I was going to go see, but since it starts right at Mikey's PMS, I had my brother do his testing and shot. That seemed to go well for the most part (aside from my brother testing him 3 times in a row on the ReliOn Prime and getting 310, 260, and 280, but this discrepancy still might be worth it for the cheap cost of the strips).

Then, a couple of hours later, my brother went to test Michelangelo again. Mikey pretty viciously attacked him and then SPRAYED the couch where he was sitting (luckily my brother had gotten up to treat his injuries). Mikey has NEVER sprayed in his entire short life (and was fixed at five and a half months old) so this is bizarre behavior! Mikey then ran outside into our backyard/catio and my brother shut the door on him because he wasn't sure what the heck was going on with him! I arrived home about 10 minutes later and discovered that Mikey had also had almost tar-like diarrhea in his outside litter box (I think this is stress-induced because he gets that after vet visits).

After cleaning the couch and trying to clean Mikey's rear-end (he's part Maine Coon, so he's got all that long hair on the back of his legs), I tested him again and his numbers weren't significantly too high or too low. He seemed to also be really sketched out and more twitchy than normal and it seemed as if his skin was overly sensitive to touch.

This morning, he seems not just back to normal, but even more mellow than usual...except for that skin sensitivity thing. It's like he can only tolerate to be touched, held, petted for a few seconds before it starts to bother him and he'll try to get away. If I don't let him get away (i.e. during testing), he growls and eventually will turn and try to bite or swipe at me. Another thing he's never really done before. He also reacted poorly during his morning shot and stood there waiting for me to give it before turning to snap at me with his teeth.

Does anyone have any ideas as to what caused the freak-out last night? Could this be one of the symptoms of Lantus that some cats experience that Levemir might help reduce?

Unrelated to the incident last night but related to the Lantus reactions: I've brought my camera out today and am going to try to get some video of this skin twitchiness I keep seeing, which usually coincides with this weird rolling around on the ground like a pig in the mud and then is shortly followed by a burst of hyperactivity where he runs around, literally bouncing off the walls (one of the reasons I joke to my brother that we need to get baby bumpers for the stairs :lol: ).

ETA: Oops, today's the 13th, not the 12th. And happy 9 months old birthday to Mikey! party_cat

Re: 1/12 Michelangelo AMPS 351, +6/232 - Incident last night

I've never heard anyone report the twitchiness plus rolling around, etc. You can certainly try Lev if you think it will make a difference.

If I recall, your brother has had some issues with how you are treating Mikey's diabetes. How do the two of them generally get along? It may be that Mikey got fed up with all of the extra poking and let your brother know he was "pissed" on no uncertain terms. Mikey was clearly stressed. I would be very curious how Mikey reacts around your brother now.

Re: 1/13 Michelangelo AMPS 351, +6/232 - Incident last night

Sorry to hear about Mikey's incident last night. I did a search and came u w/ feline-hyperesthesia. Have you looked into this? These cats can be very sensitive to being touched on their backs. An it probably isn't the Lantus but the giving of any shot. Lantus sensitivity also wouldn't explain why the reaction was later during a test and not at the shot time.

I don't know why your brother tested 3 times. Those three tests are within the "accepted" meter variances allowed, 20% +/-.

It could also be that he and your brother just don't get along. Just saw Sienne's post, she had the same idea!

Re: 1/13 Michelangelo AMPS 351, +6/232 - Incident last night

My brother is an obstinate naturalist when it comes to all things medicine with the ideology that most medicine just treats the symptoms and does not provide a cure...otherwise pharmaceutical companies would go out of business if they cured all their customers! I agree with him...mostly; I'm not nearly as stubborn as him in having my opinion changed or influenced by science, research, and documentation. He thinks insulin is just one more "cure" that does nothing but provide a life-long customer to the pharmaceutical industry. (Which I've never thought nor agree with.)

My entire family is pre-disposed to Type 2 diabetes that comes around at age 40, regardless of health, weight, or diet. (Probably the fact that we're Sicilians with a pasta-rich diet doesn't help matters.) Right now, both my aunt, two uncles, and 4 cousins are all in varying stages of mild diabetes with my aunt being the most "severe" on sugar pills. With the holidays and family gatherings, this has done a lot to help change my brother's attitude toward the necessity of the insulin injections and that it does not adversely affect the "natural" recovery of the pancreas and can actually help it. (One cousin, after diet change and a few months of sugar pills, was able to eventually get off them.)

So, from the diabetes "treatment" standpoint, my brother has finally come around. It's the "raising" of Michelangelo that he still has a problem with. He thinks I spend way too much time worrying over my cat and used last night's Theatre play as an example where I have to revolve my life around Mikey's shot times.

He also has issues with how anti-social Michelangelo seems to be when I'm not around. He says it's like a different cat. Not sure how to fix that situation, though. :sad: We've tried having my brother feed Mikey at least once a day to create a "food bond" and he also plays with him at least every other day, if not more often. When I was gone for those three days, Michelangelo even slept at the foot of my brother's bed with him. And last night, after I got home and cleaned up everything, Mikey was just chilling in one of his cat beds and my brother walked over and was able to pet him and he enjoyed it. My brother thinks it might be because he was gone for a week and Mikey was just trying to stake his territory or something.

As for me? I have absolutely NO idea what might be going on.

Re: 1/13 Michelangelo AMPS 351, +6/232 - Incident last night

Ann & Tess said:

Sorry to hear about Mikey's incident last night. I did a search and came u w/ feline-hyperesthesia. Have you looked into this? These cats can be very sensitive to being touched on their backs. An it probably isn't the Lantus but the giving of any shot. Lantus sensitivity also wouldn't explain why the reaction was later during a test and not at the shot time.

I don't know why your brother tested 3 times. Those three tests are within the "accepted" meter variances allowed, 20% +/-.

It could also be that he and your brother just don't get along. Just saw Sienne's post, she had the same idea!

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My brother tested him three times because he's a worrier and the first number seemed abnormally high. Then the second number seemed abnormally low in comparison with the first number, so he did a third test because he wanted to really make sure it was safe to shoot. When he does a job, he sometimes does a job too well and goes into overkill. :lol:

I've never heard of feline hyperesthesia, but this sounds exactly like what it might be! The reason I kept blaming the Lantus is that he didn't start showing symptoms until a couple of weeks or so after starting the Lantus. I wonder if Lantus could be a trigger for it or if it just coincides with his age and when this disorder starts presenting itself (sort of how his diabetes didn't rear its ugly head till he was almost 6 months old).

He hasn't had any seizures that I'm aware of and since I work from home quite a bit, I'm sure I would have seen one by now. He has no skin conditions or fleas or dandruff or injuries or anything really to speak of. His fur is actually quite soft and lovely. Nor does he seem to have hyperthyroidism as he's putting on weight appropriately (now that his diabetes is semi-regulated) and doesn't have any of the other symptoms.

From the article:

She should be eating a balanced, species-appropriate diet that contains no carbs, moderate amounts of animal fat, and high levels of animal protein.

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I've also noticed he does much better on food the higher the protein to fat ratio is (i.e. he does not do well on Evo and other lower protein foods).

I can't afford to take him into the vet for a full work-up for at least the next month or so (still paying off Christmas and my brother's school money disbursement hasn't come in yet, so I've been helping him out as well). I'm going to also look into the other suggestions (krill oil, natural remedies, and homeopathy) to see if this might help in the meantime. His environment, his playtime, and his toys are already pretty well-covered for reducing those stress triggers, which might be why it's not as severe as it could be if this is really what he has (i.e. the seizures).

Re: 1/13 Michelangelo AMPS 351, +6/232 - Incident last night

Sorry to hear about the incident last night. A few things came to mind from me..

- that Mikey doesnt like your brother doing tests on him - he remembered the three tests in a row and didnt want that again. And he isnt happy about the testing today because of it either.
- Mikey is getting older all the time so spraying may be his response in future to things he doesnt like. As well as diarrhea when its very stressful.
- your brother may have tried to test when Mikey was in a playful hyperactive mood... bad combo.. If i tried that on Tiggy i would get swatted and hissed at.. maybe even nipped.
- and.... please dont get mad when I say this, you dont know for sure what happened cos you werent there... you know Mikey and his behaviour better than your brother .. and your brother may have edited the story for your ears (consiciously or not). Best to judge what Mikey does with him, but what he does when he is round you.

Suggestions... maybe skip having your brother testing for a while. Let him spend time with Mikey with you watching from a distance - have him play and give treats but no nasty poky poky. Maybe little rubs of the ears too. For a good few weeks as cats have good memories. If you have to go out and you need your brother to test and shoot, keep the testing to the preshot test only.. you might even be able to skip that if you have an idea of how his BG is going, and if you test before you go and when you come back, and your brother is around to keep an eye on him for signs.

The way his BG is currently (pinks and yellows most of the time) you might be ok to skip the occasional preshot test, (pause for experts to shout at me lol), but later on if/when we get him into better and lower numbers I would be more careful.

Re: 1/13 Michelangelo AMPS 351, +6/232 - Incident last night

Wendy&Tiggy said:

- that Mikey doesnt like your brother doing tests on him - he remembered the three tests in a row and didnt want that again. And he isnt happy about the testing today because of it either.
- Mikey is getting older all the time so spraying may be his response in future to things he doesnt like. As well as diarrhea when its very stressful.
- your brother may have tried to test when Mikey was in a playful hyperactive mood... bad combo.. If i tried that on Tiggy i would get swatted and hissed at.. maybe even nipped.
- and.... please dont get mad when I say this, you dont know for sure what happened cos you werent there... you know Mikey and his behaviour better than your brother .. and your brother may have edited the story for your ears (consiciously or not). Best to judge what Mikey does with him, but what he does when he is round you.

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Don't worry; I'm not mad for you saying that. I even gave my brother the 3rd degree about what happened to see if this might be the case. I've seen similar Jekyll/Hyde behavior in Mikey before (just not to that extreme), so I don't think it was anything my brother did specifically. As for the multiple tests bothering him, when Mikey's been in low numbers, I've tested him much more frequently than that and he's never had any residual post-trauma from it before. I think your Possibility Number 3 hit the nail on the head and it comes back to Michelangelo's particular mood affecting the outcome. At this point, I'm fairly certain nothing untoward happened and he just unknowingly chose to test Mikey during one of his manic episodes (where I've learned to usually let him be).

No offense, but I really, really hope you're wrong about him responding in the future by spraying. :lol:

And I agree about not having my brother test him for a while to give them time to re-establish their relationship. I'm still able to firmly coerce Mikey into at least one test even when he is at his worst (the trick is lots and lots of treats and lots and lots of patience). I also don't have any plans in the next couple of weeks that might disrupt my ability to do PS tests, so I think we'll be fine at the moment on not having to skip any. :smile: I've also been testing him enough these last few months that I generally know how he trends given his numbers at specific points during the day. If I did have to skip a PS test, I'm pretty confident that I'd be able to determine whether or not to give a shot so that I wouldn't be technically shooting blind.

Re: 1/13 Michelangelo AMPS 351, +6/232 - Incident last night

here's another description on what happens with hyperethesia syndrome. You would notice your cat's back twitching.... much like
when they are watching a bird out the window.... but it happens much more frequently for no reason....

http://www.catchannel.com/experts/arnold_plotnick/plotnick-cat-hyperethesia.aspx


I go back to your second comment on this thread of what you said.

He also has issues with how anti-social Michelangelo seems to be when I'm not around. He says it's like a different cat. Not sure how to fix that situation, though.

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This sounds more to me like a behaviour issue....
your brother may have antagonized him in the past (unintentionally or intentionally) and the two of them just have that kind of relationship....
cats remember who plays nice and who doesn't.
testing 3 times in a row.... Mikey may have growled or something and gotten a swat....


i'd be more concerned if the behaviour becomes a pattern....

I went thru a short bout like this with my cat in the middle of her treatment and researched the rippling skin disease because she didn't
want to be touched.... but her back didn't do the rippling thing.
She would get agitated easily... and lash out. And I'd have to let her walk away and stop forcing the issue with her.

If your brother wants to change the relationship, he needs to consistently be nice to Mikey. And it will take time....a lot of time...