2/5 Gobbles PMPS 440 +305 386 +7 322 +10.5 357

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TheBowHuntress

TheBowHuntress

Member Since 2012
Yesterday's Condo:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=88388

Note: Gobbles is being playful, social and alert this morning, which is unusual for him when his BG is high (in the past, he sleeps, sleeps, sleeps, when he is high).

Gobbles is obviously bouncing. I've read that a bounce can take up to 72 hours to clear, which would be 6 cycles. When (hour or cycle) do you start the "bounce" counting?
 
Re: 2/5 Gobbles AMPS 471 ? bounce count

So my first thought in response to your question was, "When it starts."

In a less snarky vein, if you look on Gobbles' SS, you had greens during the AM cycle on 2/3. The numbers started to go up during the PM cycle but it looked like there was some recovery with the mid-cycle blue. However, the AM cycle on 2/4 was clearly a bounce. That's when I would start the count.
 
Re: 2/5 Gobbles AMPS 471 ? bounce count

Sienne and Gabby said:
So my first thought in response to your question was, "When it starts."

In a less snarky vein, if you look on Gobbles' SS, you had greens during the AM cycle on 2/3. The numbers started to go up during the PM cycle but it looked like there was some recovery with the mid-cycle blue. However, the AM cycle on 2/4 was clearly a bounce. That's when I would start the count.
Click to expand...

I noted on SS notes on 2/6 - "PM cycle--72 hours from 2/4 AM bounce" to help me keep track...
 
Re: 2/5 Gobbles AMPS 471 +3~325

Hi guys .. Well it looks like gobbles is making quick work of this bounce .. already low pinks at +3, not bad! Have a great day guys!
 
Re: 2/5 Gobbles AMPS 471 +3~325

Hi guys, sorry about the bounce, don't we just love the bouncy kitties?? I have one over here too! Nice recovery @ +3 though. Have a great day!
 
Re: 2/5 Gobbles AMPS 471 +3~325 +5.5~265 ? rub lantus

There is a discussion on the FB group about bumps under skin at injection site...I asked the girl if she rubbed the injection site after giving the shot (because that's what my vet told me to do and I always rub the injection site after I shoot Gobbles)...well, someone posted the following and I'd like to know if this is true, and if so, what does "damaging the Lantus molecules" mean?

From FB: When giving insulin shots, particularly with Lantus, you want to slowly push the plunger of the syringe in completely and with the syringe still inserted under the skin, slowly count to 10 before removing the needle from the injection site. You may have to hold your cat gently while you wait. Remove the syringe and very gently apply pressure for several seconds. DO NOT RUB THE AREA to avoid damage to the Lantus molecules." from http://www.diabeticcatcare.com/COK/InsulinScales.htm
 
Re: 2/5 Gobbles AMPS 471 +3~325 +5.5~265 ? rub lantus

I'm interested in this answer too, Kat. I've always heard not to rub the site after injection, except lightly to see if it's wet.
Checkers would never stand still for me to hold the syringe in him...I shoot and get out quickly.
 
Re: 2/5 Gobbles AMPS 471 +3~325 +5.5~265 ? rub lantus

I count to 10 , but don't put pressure on or rub it, although I had never heard not to. I do give the spot a kiss though! ;-)
 
Re: 2/5 Gobbles AMPS 471 +3~325 +5.5~265 ? rub lantus

So now I'm super-confused (btw, the vet's tech told me to roll the bottle of Lantus and rub the site when I was first given Gobby's rx for Lantus and was being shown how to give the injection) There's another post on FB on the original post stating that: there's no need to count to 10. Sure, you want to hold the plunger down, pause for a second, then pull out the needle, but counting to 10 is overkill and for what purpose?[/b] and also:

"http://www.joslin.org/info/how_to_improve_the_insulin_injection_experience.html
maybe the vet got the counting from here or some other site?
They are talking about a pen though.... the needle that snaps onto the end of the pens, but I think everyone here uses syringes.
Q: What is the best injection technique?
A: You may cleanse the injection site with an alcohol swab prior to injecting. "After selecting and cleaning an injection site, firmly--but not tightly--pinch up an area about 2-3 inches wide. Inject at a ninety degree angle while the skin is pinched. Leave the needle in while you relax the pinch. Then count to five slowly (count to ten for the Lantus pen). Then remove the needle. Do not massage the area after the injection," advises Penney.
Penny also advises people not to worry if they have a tiny amount of bleeding. "If this occurs," she states, "simply apply direct pressure on the injection site for about thirty seconds."
"You should not have a lump on your skin after injecting insulin. If this happens, either you need to refine your injection technique or you may need a longer needle," states Penney.
 
Re: 2/5 Gobbles PMPS 440 ? rub lantus

Lantus is at a different pH than the body. As a result, when Lantus is injected, it forms a microprecipitate that deposits in the fat tissue. If you rub the area, you may disrupt the precipitation process.

The vet tech who told you to roll the Lantus is not familiar with Lantus and it's proper use. Other insulin (e.g., Humulin N) is a suspension -- there are particles that drop out of solution when the insulin is sitting in your refrigerator and you need to roll the bottle to put the particle back in suspension. (Humulin N is milky white when mixed.) Lantus is a solution. It doesn't need to be mixed.

As for holding for a 10 count, note that the information you quoted refers to when you are injecting directly from the pen. Keeping pressure on the plunger when you're withdrawing the needle and waiting a few seconds may prevent any insulin from being sucked back into the syringe.
 
Re: 2/5 Gobbles AMPS 471 +3~325 +5.5~265 ? rub lantus

TheBowHuntress said:
So now I'm super-confused (btw, the vet's tech told me to roll the bottle of Lantus and rub the site when I was first given Gobby's rx for Lantus and was being shown how to give the injection) There's another post on FB on the original post stating that: there's no need to count to 10. Sure, you want to hold the plunger down, pause for a second, then pull out the needle, but counting to 10 is overkill and for what purpose?[/b] and also:

"http://www.joslin.org/info/how_to_improve_the_insulin_injection_experience.html
maybe the vet got the counting from here or some other site?
They are talking about a pen though.... the needle that snaps onto the end of the pens, but I think everyone here uses syringes.
Q: What is the best injection technique?
A: You may cleanse the injection site with an alcohol swab prior to injecting. "After selecting and cleaning an injection site, firmly--but not tightly--pinch up an area about 2-3 inches wide. Inject at a ninety degree angle while the skin is pinched. Leave the needle in while you relax the pinch. Then count to five slowly (count to ten for the Lantus pen). Then remove the needle. Do not massage the area after the injection," advises Penney.
Penny also advises people not to worry if they have a tiny amount of bleeding. "If this occurs," she states, "simply apply direct pressure on the injection site for about thirty seconds."
"You should not have a lump on your skin after injecting insulin. If this happens, either you need to refine your injection technique or you may need a longer needle," states Penney.
Click to expand...


The above is mixing up some diff issues mentioned in the FB FDMB group.
Why the lumps at injection spots, do you rub the injection spots or not, and specifics on actually giving injections - what's the proper way to finish off an injection.

The OP on FB asked the following:
I wonder if anyone has any ideas? Today I noticed two little bumps at Cattro's injection site. They are small and slightly red and if I rub them they seem a bit itchy. I have never seen them before, but I read this on a human Lantus forum: "These are the most COMMON side effects or Lantus. Redness, swelling, itching, or mild pain at the injection site." Thanks

The joslin.org link was posted about the lumps.
....from your comments in the post ...
do you rub the injection site, immediately after giving the insulin shot?
As far as I know, you are always supposed to rub with Lantus.
my vet told me to rub the shot area right after injection, but I don't know your cat's situation--I would go to FD.com and maybe ask that question at the Lantus Support group:

then the OP replied with info about rubbing the spot.
"When giving insulin shots, particularly with Lantus, you want to slowly push the plunger of the syringe in completely and with the syringe still inserted under the skin, slowly count to 10 before removing the needle from the injection site. You may have to hold your cat gently while you wait. Remove the syringe and very gently apply pressure for several seconds. DO NOT RUB THE AREA to avoid damage to the Lantus molecules." from http://www.diabeticcatcare.com/COK/InsulinScales.htm

I think you can go to many different sites and get all sorts of advice, and what's posted on FDMB site may well differ from what's on DCC site.
 
Re: 2/5 Gobbles PMPS 440 ? rub lantus

I trust the experts here at FD.com first and foremost (and I do realize that some of the experts are also on the FB page and the FB page is part of FDMB). However, I have seen different information from both sides. So then, from what I gather between FD & FB:

1. Do not rub injection site (just found that out today)
2. Do not roll Lantus (I quit doing that weeks ago after I found out, not to, here at FD.com)
3. Inject Lantus, keep needle in skin for 3-5 seconds (with plunger held down)
4. Do not put pressure on injection site

(side note: sad but true, but there have been a few times (in the past month, at least) on the FB group where someone needs and asks for information or help, and the post ends up with a few different people hashing it out at each other. I have been directing people at the FB group to come to the FD.com forum (if they aren't a registered user already) and ask their question here
 
Re: 2/5 Gobbles PMPS 440 ? rub lantus

Kat --

I don't think you need to keep the syringe in place for 10 seconds. Unless others consistently do this, I certainly don't. I probably hold the syringe in place for around 5 sec.
 
Re: 2/5 Gobbles PMPS 440 ? rub lantus

FD.com does not exist.
Do you mean this site, right here, where you are posting?
If yes, then you are referring to www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/index.php
Your vet told you to rub the location, but when you mentioned it on the FB group and on this FDMB site, you were told that you should not need to rub the location.

Rolling Lantus is never done, and asking that question here on FDMB or on the FB FDMB group would have given you replies to stop rolling. The only rolling ever mentioned here was by a few people who stated that they carefully rolled in their hands to warm the insulin.

Once pushing the plunger fully, you can hold the needle in the skin for 10 count but it's not needed... even 3 full seconds would be more than enough.

The definition of pressure needs to be clarified. After removing the needle from the skin, you can place your finger over the injection spot.

The FB FDMB group has the following info in the "About" section:
Feline Diabetes affects 1 of 100 cats. You can find information at http://felinediabetes.com/ and join the FDMB community there. For some lighter moments along with the more serious, post about your diabetic cat here. And WELCOME!
 
Re: 2/5 Gobbles PMPS 440 ? rub lantus

Sienne and Gabby said:
Kat --

I don't think you need to keep the syringe in place for 10 seconds. Unless others consistently do this, I certainly don't. I probably hold the syringe in place for around 5 sec.
Click to expand...
Thanks Sienne :)
 
Re: 2/5 Gobbles PMPS 440

Kat

I'm sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday.

A newly dx cat is one who has been dx as FD for less than a year. After a year, they are a "long term diabetics".

I switched Gracie after a year on lantus because she was doing a lot of dives regardless of feeding schedules and just didn't seem to be making alot of progress. It took her a few months on lev and she was still bouncing but she became much flatter and more predictable in her cycles. On lantus, she loved to just come down the entire cycle and give me around a 50 at PMPS. I think I only stalled once or twice (one time when she wouldn't come out of the 40s) and then aid have to work to get her up so she could onset. Her lev cycles are much smoother even if she bounces.

I'm not saying you have to give Gobbles a year, but I'd give him time.
 
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